What Are The Mechanisms That Make A Flex Nib Not Railroad?

[beanbag]

I occasionally have a hard start / railroad problem with my Pilot pens with the FA nib. The reason is very simple - when the tines split (even a little bit) the "web" of ink that hangs between them pops. I also have a vintage flex pen that I can open up a lot more, yet that pen doesn't seem to have the same problem. Instead of trying to write coherence paragraphs, I'll throw down a few ideas:

 

• I don't think this is a flow issue because sometimes when the pen is in a hard starting mode, I can see that just touching the nib down to the paper causes the web to pop.
• I think making the tine inner edges more hydrophilic helps. For example, cleaning the nib with degreaser or isopropanol.
• Ink makes a difference too? I note that some inks coat the walls of my plastic converters, and some ball up. I assume the wall-coaters would work better, but that doesn't always seem to be the case
• Adding a tiny bit of surfactant to my ink seems to help, but that also makes the wetness excessive.

Anyway, does anybody have suggestions on what to do to make the ink stick between the tines better?

 

 

 

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Older vintage superflex nibs had a faster feed....and your Pilot I don't think is superflex....so getting railroading could well be you are abusing your nib.

 

Richard Binder on his site has a real good article how to spring your nib. I think you are working on it.

 

I am ignorant of Japanese pens....but as far as I know don't even make semi-flex much less superflex.

 

A Falcon is a springy nib....good tine bend but like MB or the new Lamy Imporium, only 2 X tine spread.

 

I don't know exactly what an FA nib is....but if it was anything like a vintage semi&or Maxi-semi-flex or Superflex......I'd have heard of it I think....and would think of.....think of mind you..actually buying a new pen.

 

I normally only buy old cheap pens....well cheaper than top of the line today...top vintage pens.

 

The only semi-flex nib I know of that is being made now, is a 1000 which is much too huge a clunker for me to even think of buying it when I have close to 50 semi&maxi-semi-flex nibbed vintage pens.

 

Also have some 7-8 superflex ones, @ 5 are first stage of superflex, Easy Full Flex, and only two Wet Noodles.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[ale#]

There are some videos on youtube on how to increase the flow on your pilot pens. Search for pilot nib hack.

 

My Namiki Falcon with FA nib has a converter with a screw. When I start up or it runs a bit dry, I tighten the screw a bit - feeding more ink to the nib.

There is also a big difference in what type of ink you use. My pen seem seems to prefer Parker Quink. With some other types of ink it railroads like crazy.

 

I have some Photoflo surfactant lying around somewhere, but have not tested it with inks on the FA nib. Would be interested to hear if you have good results using this to prevent railroading.

[Bluey]

A better feed that supplies more ink

[Feanaaro]

The Namiki Falcon and the FA (or Falcon) nib are two different things. The Namiki Falcon is not offered with a FA nib, but with a "soft nib", which should be roughly comparable to the other soft-fines offered in other pens (though the shape of the nib is different), that is to say spring, but not much flex. The FA nib is comparable to a real flex as you could get from a vintage pen, but while the line variation can be very substantial, the feel is different, often described as "mush" compared to a vintage nib.

The standard feed on the FA nib does not really keep up with heavy flexing. The feed can be modified, but I would be wary of doing that, as you could incur in the opposite problem, flooding the pen and thus losing the thinner line of the "un-spread" nib. I would just go slower. The nib is conceived for Japanese calligraphy, I believe, which is mostly made of short strokes, without the continuous flow of Western cursive.

[Freddy]

 

 

Fred

[Bo Bo Olson]

Feanaaro, thank you. The FA nib is comparable to a real flex as you could get from a vintage pen,xxxxxxxxxxxx which ones?

Semi-flex, maxi-semi-flex? Pelikan, Geha, Soennecken, MB?

First stage of Superflex?

Waterman 52ish?

but while the line variation can be very substantial, the feel is different, often described as "mush" compared to a vintage nib. The standard feed on the FA nib does not really keep up with heavy flexing."""" I had heard of mushy gold Japanese nibs before. I just had not realized they had 'that' much flex.....thinking them more towards but not quite semi-flex.

[Ron Z]

Be very careful using alcohol with pens. Some alcohols (and solvents) will dissolve the modern plastic, and vintage celluloid, feeds.

 

A better thing to to would be to modify the feed to increase flow so that it can keep up with demand.

[papen]

Be very careful using alcohol with pens. Some alcohols (and solvents) will dissolve the modern plastic, and vintage celluloid, feeds.

 

A better thing to to would be to modify the feed to increase flow so that it can keep up with demand.

 

Well stated, Ron.

 

My experience with flex hierarchy of performance:

1- Nib Geometry

2- Feed setup

3- Ink selection

4- Paper stock

 

Good luck with your journey, beanbag!

[beanbag]

I don't think this is a flow issue because sometimes when the pen is in a hard starting mode, I can see that just touching the nib down to the paper causes the web to pop.

[cattar]

And that's a flow issue.

 

Like dip nibs, gotta keep enough ink on the nib for the flex.

[Feanaaro]

@Bo Bo Olson

 

Your classification system is too fine grained for my discernment capacities. I can say that you can get a FA nib to make ~1mm wide strokes without applying excessive pressure. But then the snap-back is not as prompt as with most vintage nibs (it's actually comparable to a early Aurora 88, I would say; in terms of feeling I mean, not spread – which is wider on the FA.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Semi-flex is more towards 2ml, with out excessive pressure.

 

My system is simple enough, a nail nib has no tine spread ...semi-nail if mashed 2X a light down stroke.

True regular flex, is mashed to 3X a light down stroke, half that pressure is semi-flex and half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed tmash a 'true' regular flex o max...to 3 X a true regular flex is maxi-semi-flex.

 

One does have to have a 'true' regular flex.

If they have that in Japanese...which they 'should' is the once regular issue of many pen companies before the mid '90's...

[Feanaaro]

Your assertions, those I am able to understand, are contradictory, since 2mm (I guess that's it, not 2ml) is much much more than 3X for most nibs. The non-flexed line of a FA nib is about as fine as a typical Japanese F, or even a bit finer, so let's say approximately 0.25/0.35 mm, spreading that to 1 mm means a factor between 3x and 4x. 2mm would be about 7-8x.

You also seem to switch from a definition based on the amount of spread (presumably on constant pressure) to one based on the amount of pressure (on constant spread?).

Either way, I would not be able to make those measurements with such precision as to create so many subcategories (and I doubt others would).

Edited January 24, 2017 by Feanaaro

[Meltemi]

Hello there! Here is a list of things to keep an eye on if you want vintage-like flow:

1) Air. Many modern feeds have very complex ventilation grooves, etc. Broadening them can increase flow and stability

2) Channel size. Vintage ones were HUGE and had grooves in them. Some early feeds were also extremely long. Most of the feed would be submerged in ink.

3) Ebonite. Far more superior than plastic.

[Mauricio]

Some Pilot pens have "soft" nibs. The Pilot Pen Company does not call them flexible for a reason: They are not flexible nibs. Some folks attempt to do things those pens were not designed and manufactured for and experience the same problem you have.

 

The Pilot "soft" nibs were designed and manufactured for Kanji script, which is made out of very short traces with little to modest line variation. Multiple traces form one Kanji character. On the other hand, many Western styles of vintage penmanship require massive flexibility and line variation. It is not uncommon to have to write an entire word without the need to lift the nib from paper.

 

If you want significant flexibility in a nib and significant line variation in your flex writings, limit yourself to use dip nibs of vintage fountain pens with their correct vintage flexible nibs. These writing instruments were designed and manufactured for those specific purposes and will perform a lot better.

[Freddy]

Some Pilot pens have "soft" nibs. The Pilot Pen Company does not call them flexible for a reason: They are not flexible nibs. Some folks attempt to do things those pens were not designed and manufactured for and experience the same problem you have.

 

The Pilot "soft" nibs were designed and manufactured for Kanji script, which is made out of very short traces with little to modest line variation. Multiple traces form one Kanji character. On the other hand, many Western styles of vintage penmanship require massive flexibility and line variation. It is not uncommon to have to write an entire word without the need to lift the nib from paper.

 

If you want significant flexibility in a nib and significant line variation in your flex writings, limit yourself to use dip nibs of vintage fountain pens with their correct vintage flexible nibs. These writing instruments were designed and manufactured for those specific purposes and will perform a lot better.

 

Hear Hear

 

Fred

[Feanaaro]

The nibs that Pilot calls "soft" are different from the nibs that Pilot calls FA, or Falcon. Whether the FA/Falcon nibs are "flexible" at some point become a metaphysical issue... they surely are significantly more flexible (in the pragmatic sense that they do flex more and more easily) than the soft nibs from the same manufacturer.

[Mauricio]

The nibs that Pilot calls "soft" are different from the nibs that Pilot calls FA, or Falcon. Whether the FA/Falcon nibs are "flexible" at some point become a metaphysical issue... they surely are significantly more flexible (in the pragmatic sense that they do flex more and more easily) than the soft nibs from the same manufacturer.

 

You make a very valid point. However, all of those Pilot nibs have been specifically designed and manufactured for Kanji script purposes, not for vintage Western flex penmanship. The railroading issues (by far the biggest weakness of Pilot nibs when flexed) are pretty well the same regardless of being "soft", FA or Falcon nibs. As a matter of fact, some of those Pilot nibs were even not offered by Pilot in the US. Buyers had to order them directly from Pilot in Japan or through a Pilot dealer in Japan. I have owned and written with all of them, bunches of them, including the modified ones for "added flex", for Spencerian purposes, and with "enhanced" ink flow ... and the performance for all of them was substandard (for vintage Western flex penmanship purposes) when compared to those vintage flexible nibs from the early 20th century.

 

That's why there are so many used Pilot pens with "soft", FA, Falcon and with modified nibs being offered for sale on a regular basis. Many times, they are being offered at a fraction of the price of the new ones after those pens have only been used once or twice ... while the prices of those vintage flex nibs just keeps going up.

 

If you want to write Kanji, the Pilot nibs are some of the best in the market place. If you want to write vintage Western flex penmanship, there are better options than the Pilot nibs.

[Bluey]

^

That's correct about Japanese pens - they're designed for the Japanese market and language. None that I know of hs ever been designed for the Western market and Western scripts.

Buyers should be aware of and understand the limitations of such pens and not complain when people expect them to do what they're not designed to do. .