Jump to content

My Journey Into Vintage...


ParkerDuofold

Recommended Posts

Hello Everyone,

 

First off, I want to thank everyone who contributed their thoughts, experiences, musings and advice in my previous thread: "Vintage Pens: Did I Choose Well?"

 

I received the three pens I discussed. Unfortunately, the grip section on the Sentinel Deluxe is way too narrow for me, (its like a skinny pencil); I get cramps in my fingers and hand if I hold it for more than a couple of minutes. So Tom, (e-bay ID: kaczs), has agreed to take it back and give me a full refund. Thank you in advance. :)

 

The NOS Imperial IIs from Peyton Street Pens, (PSP), have a couple more mm's girth and I can tolerate them a little better, enough so, that I could use them as daily writers. The grey Imperial II, (the one I inked), had a silky smooth TD filling system and it took a load of ink with no problem... it is also a nice wet writer. However it writes more like a fine than a medium to my eye.

 

That said, I don't know if it's the angle I hold my pens in, or what, but it behaved a lot like a Lamy 2000, in that you have to position the nib just right or it gets scratchy and dry; in fact, there were strokes where I got no ink at all on the paper. Perhaps it's that Waverly nib... I've never used one before. Fortunately, the burgundy one wasn't messed with, so I'm planning to return that one for a refund. Since I inked the gray one; I figure I'm gonna be stuck with that one. Well...live and learn. :)

 

One thing I should say is that both dealers dispatched the pens quickly and they were all well-packed- especially from PSP, where each pen was carefully packed in its own gift box. I'd also like to say I think the problems I've experienced lie more with me then the pens themselves.

 

However, the whole experience has left me with a bitter taste in my mouth towards vintage pens. I think I'll stick with the modern pens, their ergonomics are a lot better and they write well for me...which is why I don't think I'm even gonna try for a 51... I don't want to put out 51 money for a pen that's gonna be a PITA for me to use... these three cost me $150 and none of them are comfortable writers for me. :angry:

 

At any rate, I did want to thank all of you for your encouragement and friendly and/or sage advice on my previous thread and if you have any more; I'll gladly consider it. :)

 

- Anthony

 

PS: (ADDED MUCH LATER)... PLEASE read with patience... things improve down below. :)

Edited by ParkerDuofold
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 27
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • ParkerDuofold

    8

  • Bo Bo Olson

    4

  • kestrel

    2

  • jar

    2

Just like you, I have very recently began my journey with vintage pens. I started with a Montblanc 342D from the 1950s. When it came to me the body was in good condition and the piston worked well, but the nib was not doing well. It took me a lot of studying, and very patient and cautious tinkering over two weeks (smoothing/grinding/widening tines/aligning) before I got it to write as beautifully as it does today. I would think about it everyday, wondering how to fix it! Some days frustrated, and some days encouraged by progress. And then finally... It still has a very small sweet spot and it commands that I write very carefully with perfect form, but this adds character to the pen. It writes thick, smooth, and doesn't miss a beat! But, the journey with this pen is what has made it special for me. It's just so unique compared to my modern Pelikans and Platinums and Sailors. And now it has this history with me, and is a product of my effort too!

For me, this is all a part of the vintage pen experience. And that's precily why I enjoy them. But that's just my personal experience.

My Vintage Montblanc Website--> link

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't give up so easily. There is an almost infinite size variety of vintage pens even within one brand and sometimes within a model line within a brand. Vintage Conklin Enduras and Sheaffer's Balances range from short slender shapes suitable for very small hands to oversize behemoths that would be comfortable for Andre the Giant. My smallest Grieshaber was too tiny for a Munchkin to use (yes, real Munchkin) and the largest is well over six inches long capped with a section diameter of more than .375 inches. Some of the pen collector books like Andreas Lambrou's Fountain Pens of the World have life size pictures that might help you make a decision. You can also ask eBay sellers to send you a photograph of an interesting pen next to a ruler so you can compare it to a pen already in your collection. I already know that the Remington I just bought on eBay is roughly the size of a "51" and that it will fit my hand.

Then there are the nibs. None of my modern pens have nibs that compare with some of the vintage Conklins, Waterman's, and English Parkers that I do most of my writing with. To get a feel for those try a pen show if convenient or haunt antique stores, flea markets, and estate sales. Try to get to a pen posse where people are more than willing to let you try their pens.

If nothing else you should be able to find a vintage Parker Duofold that you like. They were (and are) wonderful pens and came in a broad range of sizes.

 

Happy Hunting.

Dave Campbell
Retired Science Teacher and Active Pen Addict
Every day is a chance to reduce my level of ignorance.

fpn_1425200643__fpn_1425160066__super_pi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Happy, oddly to have a caliper right on my desk, a cup full of woodcase pencils and a Sheaffer Statesman that would have the exact same grip as your Sentinel Deluxe (a wonderful pen).

 

Nearly every wood case pencil was 7mm

The grip on the Sheaffer was 10mm, or 9mm if you hold it close to the nib

 

So, no, while the Sheaffer is not a Dolce Vita Oversize it isn't a thin wood case pencil either.

 

So that means you have to go up from there in grip size, There is one size larger than that (Fat Touchdown size) in Pneumatic pens, and then one click more than that if you go up to Vacuum filler pens and find something like a OS Crest. Those are the fattest Triumph nib pens so there are 2 larger sizes from the one you tried. Larger than that, and largest of all are the PFM/Legacy and OS Balance pens. If those are not large enough for you than you should move on to other brands.

 

I don't love skinny pens either. But I find the Touchdown TM and Snorkels fine because, 1) they are really not all that skinny, folks exaggerate a lot and act like these are thin Targa or Parker 180 thin. They are not. 2) something about the shape of them and the clean unbroken line from tip to barrel that makes them a lot like holding a pencil. 3) The grooves on the section (ribbed for pleasure) makes the pen easy to hang on to. So I suppose for me, while I look for beefier pens, the Snorkels are an exception to the rule for me.

 

You could sell the pens you have now and buy that wonderful Green Striated (no affiliation) Balance Premier (a.k.a Oversize) on the classifieds and jump right to the top of the mountain. I have two (one Grey vac-fil, one Brown Lever) they are as good as your pen can be (imho).

 

Best of luck.

 

Tom is a square dealer as is Peyton St. I am sure you'll be fine. Sorry you didn't like your Imperial II. I have 4 of them and adore them.

Edited by ink-syringe

Looking for a cap for a Sheaffer Touchdown Sentinel Deluxe Fat version

Link to comment
Share on other sites

their ergonomics are a lot better""""""""""""""modern pens?????

Ha!!!!!!!!

IMO modern pens are big, clunky things....Large for no real reason...other than to be seen from far away.............too big for shirt pockets. :yikes: :doh:

 

You sound if you like a rubber grip on your fountain pens.

 

Did you post your vintage pens or not?

 

Do you hold a fountain pen like a ball point before the big index knuckle or behind it like a fountain pen?

 

You didn't say how wide the nibs were...skinny nibs have a skinny sweet spot and back in the '50-70's Sheaffer was Japanese thin on some of their nibs.....skinner than Parker.

 

I had thought Waverly nibs very rare in the US....in it was pre-war English and rare there....two generations later Richard Binder ground some nibs to the Waverly way.

 

Sounds to me you like the modern Large pens....and Standard or Medium-large will always be too thin for you.

PFM or any modern fat Large pen will do.

 

Of course you could learn the 'forefinger up' method of grasping a pen....then no pen is too thin....in it is not gripped with the Classic Tripod death grip.

 

Could try some of your wet inks.

What papers did you use?

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have four six (I just never use two of them) modern pens....the 200/215 are standard sized like I grew up with. The 600 is a nice girthed medium-large pen. I have a semi-flex B on it from a '54 400. And I have a large MB Woolf, bought because it was pretty....the nib is my eyes only bling.

 

The rest of my pens are semi-vintage ie better nibs than the modern fat and blobby Pelikan 400/600 nibs.....or the even better semi-flex nibs of the '50's era.

Much better nibs than modern.

 

Used pens allow you to have more pens. Used vintage pens give you better balance and better nibs.

As I said.....Waverly nibs are rare.............and you are the first to complain of them.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to try vintage pens then I would highly recommend attending a pen show. You will not only get to pick them all up and feel them in your hand - but you will also get to talk to some very knowledgeable people about the pens to see what may be a good fit for you. You'll likely pay a few bucks more than you would on ebay but it will be worth it. I held out on buying them (other than a Parker 75 from the early 70's) until I visited the Ohio pen show last November and am quite happy that I did. I came home with some great pens and about a $1,000 less than when I left but I'm very happy with all the purchases.

 

Also - I found that the majority of *popular* pens from the 30's, 40's, 50's are indeed smaller than the popular pens of today - if that's not your thing then you'll need to search out specific pens based on their size.

 

Also - there's something very special about vintage pens as they represent a connection with history and for that reason I find them interesting. But truth be told - from my perspective - they may not be for everybody if all you want is robust pen that is easy to maintain and a solid writer. No shame in that at all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also - there's something very special about vintage pens as they represent a connection with history and for that reason I find them interesting. But truth be told - from my perspective - they may not be for everybody if all you want is robust pen that is easy to maintain and a solid writer. No shame in that at all!

I think this kind of sums up the attraction of vintage pens; I think it's more of a romantic or psychological attraction than a pragmatic, logical one. Think about it honestly for a moment, what would you rather drive to work everyday? A 1938 Chevrolet Master Deluxe that's tied to history, but has a thousand squeaks and rattles; no crumple zones, seat belts/air bags, p/s, p/b and rides like a buckboard, even on the boulevard... or a new Lexus that takes you where you want to go with quiet comfort, reliability and safety.

 

Pens are just tools to me and I've found the fp to be the best writing tool available today, so much so, I've made a hobby out of them and that's what brought me here.

 

The way a lot of people talk about vintage pens here, I was expecting a more "magical" experience than I got... especially from professionally restored/NOS pens, which I would consider the "cream of the vintage crop."

 

However, I'm beginning to think the "magical" performance of vintage pens is more psychological than a cold reality. I know vintage pens require more maintenance, but I was willing to accept that to experience this "magical" experience many of you seem to have.

 

I was expecting pens that at least wrote as well (or better) than my current favorites: the Lamy 2000; Pilot Custom 74; Levenger True Writer and even a couple of Jinhao X-750s. However, my experiences weren't equal or better... they were worse... and the vintage pens I chose are all "well rated" pens here.

 

So as I said before, maybe the problem is me and not the pens, but all I want from a pen is what I want from my car...take me where I have to go comfortably and reliably...write what I need to write smoothly and with proper wetness.

 

All that said, I have decided I'm going to give vintage one more shot... I'm gonna try for my namesake: a Duofold. But, with a straight nib, (no more Waverly's) and with normal, round medium tipping on it that will accept a wide range of writing angles and not give me any grief about it.

 

I also agree that the pen show idea is the way to go... where I can "test drive" the pen before I buy it. :)

 

- Anthony

Edited by ParkerDuofold
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The quality of my vintage pens is more variable than that of my new(er) pens. Technological differences tend to be more to do with the filling system than other aspects. Some of my vintage models (talking 1920s and 1930s here) I would confidently submit to a blind test compared with new pens, if we could avoid the giveaway that they are not nails.

 

The fact you found the first of your pens too slim does not appear to be a fault in vintage pens as a class. :) Still, these comments are subordinate to writing with something you like. Enjoy the experiments.

X

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WELL, I MAY HAVE TO EAT A LITTLE SHEAFFER CROW HERE...THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

 

Unfortunately, the Sentinel Deluxe is too thin for my hands, nothing is going to change that.

 

However, I picked up the NOS Sheaffer Imperial Deluxe Mk. II from PSP again and it's writing like a completely different pen! :o

 

It's really smooth, wet and laying down a TRUE MEDIUM line of ink now. I don't know what happened, I didn't do anything with it, but the difference in the last 12 hours is like night and day.

 

Now, I'm actually glad I got it. It writes as well as my other favorites, (mentioned above), and even better than my Java True Writer. :)

 

It's a mystery to me, but I'm not gonna complain... the ONLY thing I can think of is maybe it took this long for the 50 year old NOS feed to get saturated. I really can't explain it. :unsure:

 

But it has turned into a great little writer "over-night." :)

 

- Anthony

Edited by ParkerDuofold
Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, I'm beginning to think the "magical" performance of vintage pens is more psychological than a cold reality. I know vintage pens require more maintenance, but I was willing to accept that to experience this "magical" experience many of you seem to have.

 

All that said, I have decided I'm going to give vintage one more shot... I'm gonna try for my namesake: a Duofold. But, with a straight nib, (no more Waverly's) and with normal, round medium tipping on it that will accept a wide range of writing angles and not give me any grief about it.

 

 

- Anthony

Magic is in the eyes of the beholder and I do hope you find your ultimate pen. It took me a while to finally figure out what I really like in a vintage pen and the journey was part of the fun. My three best vintage writers are an absolute delight to hold and use. Maybe not magic but I smile a lot when I use them. One is a classic Parker Senior Duofold in RHR.

 

You seem to like a broader nib. May I suggest looking for an English made Duofold with a Newhaven nib. Newhaven nibs (Marked with an "N" near where the nib enters the section) seem a little softer and are broader than their American counterparts. They pop up on eBay or you can look for English pen sellers.

 

Again, Happy Hunting.

Dave Campbell
Retired Science Teacher and Active Pen Addict
Every day is a chance to reduce my level of ignorance.

fpn_1425200643__fpn_1425160066__super_pi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Magic is in the eyes of the beholder and I do hope you find your ultimate pen. It took me a while to finally figure out what I really like in a vintage pen and the journey was part of the fun. My three best vintage writers are an absolute delight to hold and use. Maybe not magic but I smile a lot when I use them. One is a classic Parker Senior Duofold in RHR.

 

You seem to like a broader nib. May I suggest looking for an English made Duofold with a Newhaven nib. Newhaven nibs (Marked with an "N" near where the nib enters the section) seem a little softer and are broader than their American counterparts. They pop up on eBay or you can look for English pen sellers.

 

Again, Happy Hunting.

Hello Kestrel,

 

I want to thank you (and others above) for your friendly, level-headed advice. :)

 

I also think you may have hit on something with the nib. I think the larger pens with Newhaven nibs may just be what I'm looking for. Thank you. :)

 

- Anthony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WELL, I MAY HAVE TO EAT A LITTLE SHEAFFER CROW HERE...THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

 

Unfortunately, the Sentinel Deluxe is too thin for my hands, nothing is going to change that.

 

However, I picked up the NOS Sheaffer Imperial Deluxe Mk. II from PSP again and it's writing like a completely different pen! :o

 

It's really smooth, wet and laying down a TRUE MEDIUM line of ink now. I don't know what happened, I didn't do anything with it, but the difference in the last 12 hours is like night and day.

 

Now, I'm actually glad I got it. It writes as well as my other favorites, (mentioned above), and even better than my Java True Writer. :)

 

It's a mystery to me, but I'm not gonna complain... the ONLY thing I can think of is maybe it took this long for the 50 year old NOS feed to get saturated. I really can't explain it. :unsure:

 

But it has turned into a great little writer "over-night." :)

 

- Anthony

 

A 'magical' experience! :thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

fpn_1484473799__img_2620.jpg

 

fpn_1484473813__img_2621.jpg

Hello Noihvo,

 

I want to thank you for sharing your story with me and I'm glad my situation is not as unique as I thought.

 

I think I'll be alright as soon I get over being an impatient, bull-headed ox. :lol: I've always been set in my ways (and my pre-conceived notions and apprehensions... and slow to listen to wisdom of others.

 

Thanks again Noihvo (and everyone else who posted here; especially Kestrel,), for sharing your insight and experiences. :)

 

- Anthony

Edited by ParkerDuofold
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not unusual for it to take 24 hours to fully saturate a feed. Even with brand new pens made very recently I do not judge performance until it's been filled at least one day. With older pre-plastic feeds it can take two days.

 

My Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not unusual for it to take 24 hours to fully saturate a feed. Even with brand new pens made very recently I do not judge performance until it's been filled at least one day. With older pre-plastic feeds it can take two days.

Hello Jar,

 

Thanks. Good to know; I guess every pen is different, too. What threw me is I've never had an experience this bad before.

 

- Anthony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Jar,

 

Thanks. Good to know; I guess every pen is different, too. What threw me is I've never had an experience this bad before.

 

- Anthony

Yes, pens and nibs can be very individual. For example, I have a couple Pilot Custom Heritage pens, one is a 912 with the factory stub nib and the other a 91 with a medium nib. The 912 stub is far happier, far more pleasant when used to write in cursive than when printing. The 91 medium is just the opposite.

 

My Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm glad you found your Sheaffer to work so well after sitting! You are just dipping your toe into the waters of vintage pens. The Golden Age of fountain pens when the fountain pen was a writing tool and a status symbol. I love my vintage pens and always have several inked. My modern pens get rotated in and out with the others, but they don't have the same character as the ones from the 30s, 40s, and 50s.

 

Buzz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anthony,

 

Acquiring, using, and ultimately enjoying a vintage fountain pen takes a different perspective and approach compared to modern pens. We must treat each vintage fountain pen in a case-by-case basis. Drawing a big fat brush for conclusion based on a number of pens that don't work for you right of the bat is a sure way to miss *a lot* of fun with wonderful fountan pens.

 

To give you an idea, let me tell you about two Conklin flex nibs that I just acquired. They look very similar in appearance (14K with long graceful tines), both from the same company (Conklin) in the same era of production (1910's).

 

But when I write with them, they might as well be night vs day. One flexes easier and produces lovely line variations. The other is a bit stiffer, but produces a better thin lines (hairlines). There is no way for me to predict how they write just by looking.

 

So don't dismiss vintage pens just yet. Each pen is unique due to their being individually molded by their decades of condition. Modern pens don't have that variable (yet).

Edited by penwash

- Will
Restored Pens and Sketches on Instagram @redeempens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33501
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26627
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...