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More Information On This 105/60?

mabie todd swan 100/60 105/60

16 replies to this topic

#1 Megabound

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 00:14

Hello everyone! I'm new to Fountain pen restoration and picked up this lovely Mabie Todd Swan self filler, but don't know a whole lot about it. Things I do know, it's a number 1 nib with a special trim level, but can anyone fill me in on what year it may have been made and whatnot?

 

04 Display 1.jpg

 

05 Display 2.jpg

 

06 Detail 1.jpg

 

09 Detail 2.jpg

 

07 Detail 4.jpg

 

08 Detail 3.jpg

 

10 Writing Sample.jpg

 

01 Dissasembled.jpg

 

02 Polished Nib.jpg

 

03 Nib Section Detail.jpg



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#2 Cob

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 00:36

That's very interesting; I have seen the odd SM205/60 but never a 105/60 - this one is in delightful order with what looks (typically for a Mabie Todd) to be a lovely nib.  People erroneously describe these as being made of black chased hard rubber, which they are not; they are made from Celluloid.  The filler lever, section and feed of course are of black hard rubber.

 

The clip dates the pen to the mid to late 1830s; I would guess around 1936.  You are fortunate to have found such a nice example; I hope it will give you plenty of writing pleasure as I sure it will..

 

Best wishes

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#3 Megabound

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 04:58

Ah, thank you kindly Cob, no wonder it was so hard to track down. 105/60 was returning 0 useful results, but a post of yours that went into the numbering convention got me all the info I could get.



#4 Cob

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 09:13

Glad to help.  I should clarify what i wrote late last night.  What I meant about the clip is that that type of clip first appeared around the mid-1930s.  It (or in fact one very like it) was used on the majority of Swan models up to around 1954.

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#5 butchixanhdo

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 19:55

That's very interesting; I have seen the odd SM205/60 but never a 105/60 - this one is in delightful order with what looks (typically for a Mabie Todd) to be a lovely nib.  People erroneously describe these as being made of black chased hard rubber, which they are not; they are made from Celluloid.  The filler lever, section and feed of course are of black hard rubber.

 

The clip dates the pen to the mid to late 1830s; I would guess around 1936.  You are fortunate to have found such a nice example; I hope it will give you plenty of writing pleasure as I sure it will..

 

Best wishes

 

Cob

 

 

Are Celluloid swans hard to find? 



#6 Greenie

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 20:21

 

 

Are Celluloid swans hard to find? 

 

Not at all!  IMHO, they made the most beautiful celluloids, and often with wonderful nibs. 

 

Check out the 142 and 242 series, and the snakeskin and lizard skin patterns.  And the SM series.

 

At work. Can't post pics right now.



#7 Cob

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 21:03

Yes I agree (of course) 100% with what Greenie has written.  The 142 and 242 types were perhaps better known in the USA rather than in England although as a matter of fact I have a 242/54 here at presnet stamped "Made in England" - probably quite unusual.

 

Other Celluloids tolook out for from the 1930s are 47 (Mosaic) 52 (blue/black marbled), 57 (blue/bronze), 58 ("Marine bronze), 59 (Italian Marble), 62 (Red/silver marble)  63 (Russet/Jade) 64 (Brown amber).

 

Here are a few pictures.

 

First: Brown amber

 

fpn_1461578449__l300_64.jpg

 

Heres the 52 colour:

 

fpn_1441210653__l212_52.jpg

 

Here's the 47 = Mosaic

 

fpn_1491858102__done.jpg

 

And finally, perhaps my favourite, the 62 pattern:

 

fpn_1491858211__l245_62j_2pg.jpg

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#8 butchixanhdo

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 21:23

omg, the blue one look awesome!



#9 Cob

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 21:47

omg, the blue one look awesome!

Yes, well there is usually a problem with that particular material.  The barrels go dark, probably due to outgassing from the rubber sac.  That example in my picture wasn't too bad but you can see that the barrel is darker than the cap.  The pattern is rare anyway and one in good colour very rare indeed.

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#10 Greenie

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 00:45

OK - I swear that this is not to be a show off.  But our new friend asked about celluloid Swans.

 

So, now for a quick peek at celluloid swans - focusing on volume and definitely not quality of the pictures!

Sorry for the stray Blackbird and mottled hard rubber in the way....  :)

(and for the fans, I believe I have all the 142/242 colors, first picture, in order from X42/49 second from the left, to X42/55 blue with black vein, just prior to the Blackbird and moire ringtops). 

 

fpn_1491871040__swans_01.jpg fpn_1491871048__swans_02.jpg fpn_1491871055__swans_03.jpg fpn_1491871065__swans_04.jpg fpn_1491871078__swans_05.jpg



#11 butchixanhdo

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 03:17

OK - I swear that this is not to be a show off.  But our new friend asked about celluloid Swans.

 

So, now for a quick peek at celluloid swans - focusing on volume and definitely not quality of the pictures!

Sorry for the stray Blackbird and mottled hard rubber in the way....  :)

(and for the fans, I believe I have all the 142/242 colors, first picture, in order from X42/49 second from the left, to X42/55 blue with black vein, just prior to the Blackbird and moire ringtops). 

 

fpn_1491871040__swans_01.jpg fpn_1491871048__swans_02.jpg fpn_1491871055__swans_03.jpg fpn_1491871065__swans_04.jpg fpn_1491871078__swans_05.jpg

 

WOW, such an awesome collection, sir! How many year did it take you to collect all these? And I believe that you have many more swans beside these. I am wondering if these trays ever or will appear at a pen show? :D



#12 Greenie

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:23

Yes, there are two more trays of Mabie Todd  :blush: . Hard rubber, metal pens, and misc other "birds".

 

No plans to take these to market for the foreseeable future!  I have a pretty big collection overall, but these are absolutely my favorites. 



#13 Cob

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 11:48

Breathtaking Greenie!

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#14 PaulS

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 12:38

I agree - very mouthwatering.           I also have a 62 in the red/bronze/silver colours - the bronze and silver really do sparkle - but mine has an accommodation clip as opposed to a fixed riveted  clip, and I did wonder whether this was a problem with originality, bearing in mind that both Cob and Greenie have examples of this pen with a fixed clip.            But it seems not  -  the Swan list does show this model having a clip and clipless, with a date of c. 1927 - so guess it was at that period when clips were optional.         As is often the case, the model No. is on the butt end of the blind cap.        The cap rings on this model are very attractive too - especially with the milled pattern on the centre ring.

 

Apropos of nothing in particular, for some reason I was looking at a small ring top States made jade green l.f. pen recently - and being very ignorant of such matters - was surprised to see what must be an unusual method of linking between the lever and pressure bar.             It looks to be the fourth pen from left in Greenie's first picture - and regret don't know the model No. etc., but would assume date is again somewhere in the 1920s, but could be wrong.    Was this system peculiar to M.T., and would be interested to know more about that particular pen.  Thanks  :) 



#15 Greenie

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 14:53

We are so far off topic!  Oh well. 

 

PaulS,

 

1.  The red and silver leverless is seen with a single band and with a triple textured band.  It is also commonly seen clipless as well as with a clip.

2.  the Swan levers of this period have the bar attached with the sliding mechanism



#16 Cob

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 16:05

Yes with the triple bands, your pen is L245/62; with a single band it would be L205/62.  Swan offered a clip fitting serivce for a very small charge - sadly no longer:  I have just bought a clipless L245B/60,  This leverless is just a little shorter than the standard L205/245 models - the B denotes this.

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#17 PaulS

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 17:39

many thanks for the information - very much appreciated, and yes, sorry, will try to remember not to stray off-topic :) 





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