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Visconti "dreamtouch" Nib Memory - Hype Or Real?

visconti dreamtouch nib nib memory

23 replies to this topic

#1 dms525

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 20:58

The Palladium nib follows its user’s hand and molds to it in a special way. 

 

We used to say that this nib has its own memory: The tines will spread and adjust in accordance to its owner’s writing style.

As we all have different hands, each fountain pen will write in a different way – unique to its owner.

 

The above is copied from the Visconti.it web site.  Is this hype? Does it have some objective basis? Does it seem to be subjectively meaningful in the experience of Visconti “dream touch” nib users?

 

I have felt that the writer adapts to the nib, rather than the other way around. For me, this adaptation generally happens within the first hour of writing with a new nib. But sometimes the change in how the nib writes for me is so dramatic that I wonder if there really is a “breaking in” process of some sort. 

 

I recently got my first Visconti fountain pen. It is a Homo Sapiens Bronze with a stub nib. Even after  Michael Masuyama fixed its skipping and after some trials with different inks to find the best match for the “dream touch” nib’s wet flow, I had very mixed feeling about how it wrote. Just what bothered me is hard to say. It was hard to get the rhythmic writing I get with my best nibs. But, after about 3 days with a total of less than an hour using it, something “clicked.” I now think it’s really going to be one of my favorites. 

 

So, did the nib “mold to” my hand or did I adapt to its unique feel?

 

Please share your  experience and any knowledge you have for the validity of Visconti’s claims.

 

Thanks.

 

David


Edited by dms525, 03 January 2017 - 21:58.


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#2 zaddick

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 21:09

The animate adapted to the inanimate. The PD nibs are different than most other modern nibs in my experience so I feel you probably just learned how to "play" the nib like someone might learn the unique characteristics of an instrument.

I have had maybe a dozen Visconti pens and 3 of their PD nibs. All 3 needed work to write properly and are pretty wet. They do have some flexibility to them that is not spring and not vintage flex, in my opinion. They can be fun to write with, but I like to old 18K nibs better. They are stiffer and some might say boring, but the pens are beautiful enough I don't need a nib with "character."

The 1.3 is a nib is a nice width and is fun to write with. My BB is very rounded and has no stubbish characteristics like a MB BB nib.

Enjoy your new pen, but don't believe the hype!

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#3 Bluey

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 21:15

Probably of similar substance to Deltas Fusion nib.

"The nib was developed to improve the efficiency of the fountain pen by enhancing the physical-chemical properties of ink within its assembly system. The foundation of the Fusion nib is a steel alloy covered and decorated with a layer of precious 18K gold: the ink is made more viscous on the tip of the nib because the thermal conductivity of the precious metal plate will heat the underlying steel – the higher temperature makes the ink flow more smoothly....."

 

It's a thing with the Italian makers


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#4 Freddy

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 21:16

Re  Hype....I dunno a thing about it 'cept it's nice sounding.

 

Unadulterated BS!

 

One man's good old advertising hyperbole is another man's major 

league irritant.

 

Enjoy your new pen.

 

Fred

 

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'Tis a universal thing..............................................


Edited by Freddy, 03 January 2017 - 21:17.


#5 jar

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 21:58

Mary Sue Easter eggs

they're the best Easter eggs

honey your money can buy

they're rich and nutritious

and oh so delicious

so why don't you give them a try.

 

 

standard.jpg

 

Six ounces of chocolate covered nougat, the most nutritious food in the world.


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#6 langere

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 22:10

To answer your question, there is something to what Visconti says, but it takes many years before the nib is changed by one person's writing. Iridium is hard material and diminishes very little even after years of use.  Likewise, the nib itself is not likely to change much, nor (it the case of the HS) is the lava/rubber material going to indent where you clasp the pen.  But conceivably, after many years there might be some slight accommodation.

 

Yes, you are right - the writer adjust much more to the pens that vice versa.  The reason why it took you a number of days to get used to the Homo Sapiens is that it is not terribly well balanced and your hand had to adjust to the pen.  It is also thicker and heavier than most pens, something else to get adjusted to.

 

In any case, I'm glad that you have gotten used to the pen.  I love my HS too, but also found it took a number of days to get really comfortable with it.

 

Erick


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Sailor Professional Gear Manyo "H-MF" nib running Waterman Green

 


#7 ehemem

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 23:39

Oh, All Ye of little faith! These nibs have souls! They are alive I tell you! (And too spooky for my taste...)



#8 dms525

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 00:58

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your opinions. The consensus is clearly that Visconti's claims for some special "learning" capabilities on the part of their dreamtouch nibs lacks credibility.  Moreover, they are probably less nutritious than Mary Sue Easter Eggs, although, in all fairness, Visconti has not claimed otherwise.

 

David 



#9 markh

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 04:29

Probably of similar substance to Deltas Fusion nib.

"The nib was developed to improve the efficiency of the fountain pen by enhancing the physical-chemical properties of ink within its assembly system. The foundation of the Fusion nib is a steel alloy covered and decorated with a layer of precious 18K gold: the ink is made more viscous on the tip of the nib because the thermal conductivity of the precious metal plate will heat the underlying steel – the higher temperature makes the ink flow more smoothly....."

 

It's a thing with the Italian makers

 

I have several pens with this nib. They are nothing similar to the Fusion nib, which is a very stiff and "normal" nib.

 

The Pd nibs are very picky and need to be adjusted to make them behave well, or at least to fit my writing.

 

They are need the tine spacing just so, need the feed to be very closely conformed to the nib, and need to end of the feed to be closer to the end of the nib.

 

When all this is done, I really like writing with them. They really are dreamtouch - smooth, with no pressure at all needed.

 

As to changing to reflect your how you write, I think all nibs slightly change in this way, especially if you use a single pen to write with all day. The changes are slight, and I'm not sure these nibs are any different in that respect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.



#10 dms525

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 05:27

 

I have several pens with this nib. They are nothing similar to the Fusion nib, which is a very stiff and "normal" nib.

 

The Pd nibs are very picky and need to be adjusted to make them behave well, or at least to fit my writing.

 

They are need the tine spacing just so, need the feed to be very closely conformed to the nib, and need to end of the feed to be closer to the end of the nib.

 

When all this is done, I really like writing with them. They really are dreamtouch - smooth, with no pressure at all needed.

 

As to changing to reflect your how you write, I think all nibs slightly change in this way, especially if you use a single pen to write with all day. The changes are slight, and I'm not sure these nibs are any different in that respect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

I think Bluey was comparing the hype surrounding the Dreamtouch nib with the hype surrounding the Fusion nib, rather than claiming the nibs themselves are similar.

 

My experience is restricted to this single nib, but, having read many reviews and informal comments by dreamtouch nib users, your experience (and mine) seem typical. Before receiving the pen, I fully expected 1) I would have to have it worked on, and 2) once it had been work on I would love it. In fact, when I told Michael Masuyama I was getting the HS, he told me I would almost certainly want to send it to him for correcting  skipping, at least. 

 

It's pretty crazy for a company to produce such intensively designed and costly pens that so seldom are usable when purchased. 

 

David



#11 Bluey

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 14:28

 

I have several pens with this nib. They are nothing similar to the Fusion nib, which is a very stiff and "normal" nib.

 

The Pd nibs are very picky and need to be adjusted to make them behave well, or at least to fit my writing.

 

They are need the tine spacing just so, need the feed to be very closely conformed to the nib, and need to end of the feed to be closer to the end of the nib.

 

When all this is done, I really like writing with them. They really are dreamtouch - smooth, with no pressure at all needed.

 

As to changing to reflect your how you write, I think all nibs slightly change in this way, especially if you use a single pen to write with all day. The changes are slight, and I'm not sure these nibs are any different in that respect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

David, below, is right. I meant they are the same in that they are both marketing BS.

 

 

I think Bluey was comparing the hype surrounding the Dreamtouch nib with the hype surrounding the Fusion nib, rather than claiming the nibs themselves are similar.

 

Spot on!


Edited by Bluey, 04 January 2017 - 14:31.

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#12 markh

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 18:29

David, below, is right. I meant they are the same in that they are both marketing BS.

 

Spot on!

 

 

 

Well, I will let others judge the hype level - there's plenty to go around.

 

Both pens I have with Fusion nibs are very pleasant to write with, though I doubt that the piece of gold glued to the top has much to do with it. I've seen the marketing claims about heat flow, etc, and IMO those statements rate right up there with perpetual motion machines. None the less, I have no complaints about the performance of mine - I like them.

 

The Pd nib on the Visconti pens seems really different to me, in a positive way. The only other pens I have that seem similar have titanium nibs. They are not like typical steel nibs, modern gold nibs, or vintage gold nibs - different from all of them.

Whether you like the difference is, as always, up to individual taste. I think they make a nice change from the others.

 

 

 

.



#13 Bluey

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 19:18

Yes, performance of the nib is great and I've heard nothing but good things about the fusion nib. Many experiences, positive and negative,  can have a psychological factor.


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#14 bizhe

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 05:54

Ah, nougat.

#15 ItwasLuck

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 12:56

I think you simply got used to how the Pd nibs write, rather than the nib being molded to your hands.

I'll give one such example. When i first bought my 823, it wrote "ok", it was a pleasant writer but the writing experience improved dramatically after about 2 months of heavy use. That is what I would call a sufficient amount of time for a nib to become "molded to the user". But keep it in mind that is a 14K nib that is fairly stiff.

My Kakadu on the other hand has the ol' 18K nibs Visconti used to do. That nib wrote amazing from the very start and it's characteristics hasn't changed at all over time.

Now we come to my 3rd daily writer, the Visconti HS London Fog. The first 2 weeks with this pen was a bit unusual to say the least. I say that because this Pd nib (1.3mm stub <3) felt very finicky. At first I attributed it to my writing position but after much testing the nib really had a few issues, primarly that the feed was off-center.

I've never done any nib-tuning ever but the nib got to the point where it wouldn't even write a SINGLE downstroke without railroading or writing at all. Enough was enough, I decided to unscrew the nib unit and tune it myself. Surprisingly it worked, not only was the feed put back in place but I managed to adjust the ink flow slightly and put it back together. Boy was I in for one hell of a frustrating experience. If you've ever opened the nib unit of any homo sapiens, you'll notice the nib collar has a small O-ring in it. I had completely ignored this so for about an hour I kept hand tightening that nib unit to be disappointed about the end position (I wanted the nib to line up between the Homo and Sapiens, this was also the place where the swirls looked like they naturally started). Finally I decided to inspect the threads on the nib unit and realized that the O-ring was getting in the way. Long story short, I got it fixed wrote with the pen afterwards was disappointed. The morning after however I found my pen to write absolutely SUBLIME.

 

Literally the pen would write with NO pressure at all, the stub writes so butter-y smooth and the Pd nibs themselves are just so soft and spring-y. So here it comes:

The whole "dream-touch" marketing is not a hype, it's only a hype for half their pens.

I say this because whenever you buy a Visconti (with the Pd nibs), you have a 50/50 chance of getting one that works perfect out of the box. Mine obviously didn't and required tinkering which I managed to do surprisingly (considering it was my first time). BUT once you have a Pd nib that actually writes, you will enjoy a butter-y smooth experience that can largely be attributed to 3 things:

1. The juicy Ink-flow
2. The amount of tipping material

3. The softness of Palladium in general

 

These three things add up to provide a dream-touch experience because that is what it feels like. When I write with this stub nib (with IG ink too!), I feel no feedback it's simply amazing. Of course paying over 800 bucks for a pen you should expect the nib to write flawlessly! But not with anything Italian (or at least in Visconti's case).

Visconti pens are like Italian products. Beautiful and elegant works of art that are plagued by Q/C issues. If you can get around to fixing the nib yourself or if your lucky enough to get a good Pd nib from the start, you will be very satisfied with your writing experience. Calling it a "dream-touch" nib is honestly not far off. This stub is quite honestly the best nib I've ever come across (in terms of smoothness and feel). 

And no the nib hasn't "molded to me" if for some reason your nib did mold to you after a short span of a few days than you are really putting too much pressure on the nib! For a nib to start to show signs of "molding", it would take months of writing with the pen to see any tangible difference. So what I think happened to you is that you learned to write with much less pressure. 

Seriously, these Pd nibs are very soft, you shouldn't have to use any pressure at all and coming from your regular 14/18K nibs which are MUCH stiffer in comparison I wouldn't be surprised if you finally got the "feel" for the nib. 


Edited by ItwasLuck, 05 January 2017 - 12:58.

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#16 dms525

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 17:45

ItwasLuck/Dr. J.M. Uddin,

 

Your experience seems characteristic. It certainly is consistent with my own experience with the HS. Where my experience differs is that the adaptation process is not unique to the dreamtouch nib. Not every nib I have has required a few pages of writing to learn how to get its best performance, but many have. On reflection, the predictive characteristics are, first, juicy ink flow and, second, softness/semi-flex. 

 

I write in italic script predominantly, and good thick/thin line differentiation is important to me. So, with juicy soft nibs, a dry ink and a feather-light touch are the key parameters of successful adaptation. YMMV.

 

Another variable with a new or newly filled pen is that many require several hours after filling for the feed to saturate and equilibrate. (At least I believe that is what is happening.) Thus, for many of my pens, they will write better the day after they have been filled, regardless of how much I have written with them directly after inking.

 

It took me one or two days to get the feel of the dreamtouch nib. I am enjoying it a lot. However, I don't find its feel much different than that of other springy nibs with good ink flow, for example the Bock nibs on modern Conway Stewart pens.

 

Happy writing!

 

David



#17 inkfade

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 21:40

I just recently acquired a Visconti HS. The nib is ok. It's smooth, but not as smooth as my F-C Masuyama steel needlepoint, which surprised me. Plus it hard starts and skips like crazy. I would consider getting it tuned by somebody who knows what they're doing, but the pen is very heavy and uncomfortable for me to use for long periods, so I don't feel so bad about returning it. If it weighed less, I would definitely get the nib fixed. Oh well.



#18 Lam1

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 02:14

I agree with everybody that Visconti's claims are just "colorful" advertising...

My experience with the dream touch nib is limited to my HS bronze, which I have had for about 2 years and the one on a London Fog that I recently gave to my son (and I used it for about 10 days, after he inked it). I guess I was lucky, because both nibs wrote very well out of the box and no adjustment was necessary (my HS quality is another matter entirely... poor finishing and the cap is becoming harder and harder to open, but that is for another discussion). Both nibs were very wet, which I like, very smooth and never skip. I would describe these nibs as soft, a bit like my Nakaya soft nib but less bouncy. I like them, but they are not my favorite nibs. Still, one of these days I'll pick up one of their stubs.

Congrats and enjoy the new pen.

#19 jmccarty3

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 18:30

Just finished playing with my first Dreamtouch nib, a medium, on the sterling silver Watermark pen, which is very heavy. I did have to align the tines, which has to be done with most new pens. Following that little adjustment, I find that it writes quite reliably and smoothly with little pressure. It is a wet nib (with Visconti Blue ink), and I have to be careful not to put too much ink on the page.

 

My only other Visconti is the Typhoon, with the tubular "chromium" steel Waverly fine nib. It is a nail, and would make a great pen for someone used to writing with ballpoints. I have to say that it did write smoothly out of the box. I should put it up for sale on the classifieds. Unfortunately, I lost the mosquito filler attachment along the way, but you really don't need it to fill the pen.

 

I have no experience with the Visconti gold nibs, but would like to try one sometime. I agree completely that we adapt to the nib we are using, rather than the other way round. It's nice to be able to say that someone else's writing will "ruin" your pen when someone wants to borrow it, though. I always use that fake excuse and hand them a nice Pelikan M800 series ballpoint that I carry around for that purpose. The borrower is usually satisfied that I'm letting them use what obviously is a fairly expensive ballpoint.


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#20 markh

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 20:09

One factor that I should have mentioned earlier. If you pull the nib/feed apart, the feed has three feed channels. Probably needed to support the flow of such a soft nib.

 

That is one factor as to why they are a high flow, wet pen. That's why I prefer mine adjusted (tines, feed) for the minimum possible flow given the nib material and feed/nib geometry.

 

When that's done, I really like mine. From the factory both of mine were way to wet for my style - but everyone likes different things.  Which is a good thing......

 

 

.





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