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Cursive Italic Vs Stub

nibs cursive italic stub

28 replies to this topic

#21 pajaro

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 17:36

Hello,

 

 I am relatively new to this community. But, I am not new to fountain pens  :) . I have been passionate about FPs (and pens in general) since childhood. 

I am sorry, if I am diverting the main subject of this forum topic.

 

I just wanted to make a post as a shout-out to one of the best Nib Meisters I have worked with - Deb Kinney. When I decided to customize nibs, I did a lot of research and got very good pointers from this community as far as Nib Meisters were concerned. Given the long turn around time with Mottishaw and Mike Masuyama, I decided to go with Deb. I was amazed at the work she did for me and that too in less than two weeks. The stub that she produced was silky smooth - smoother than my original nib. Ever since I have been sending her at least one customization request every month - I have had Deb customize my Pilot Custom Heritage 91, Sailor 1911, Sailor Pro Gear II, Platinum #3776, Lamy CP1 and the list goes on. I really recommend Deb's work - I guarantee that you wont be disappointed. 

 

I have used John Mottishaw's service only once. I had purchased from nibs.com Sailor Pro Gear II. Since I had read only great reviews about John Mottishaw's work, I decided to get a simple stub on my Sailor Pro Gear II. I paid $55 for this. When the pen arrived it was horrendous to say the least - it was too scratchy and pulled on the paper (I use Moleskine and Clairefontaine notebooks). I sent it back and I was asked to pay additional fees ($45). Even after the second round and having spent close to $120 (including shipping), I still got a extremely scratchy nib. I finally sent the to Deb and she waved her magic wand and wallah! a beautifully smooth stub. I hope I did not offend any avid fans of Mottishaw. But just wanted to let the team know that just be careful when you make a customization request. May be talking to the people at nibs.com on the phone and sending a writing sample might help (I did send a writing sample with my second request but did not talk to them on the phone).  

 

Thanks,

SJ

 

I have tried most of the pens you cited.  Maybe I would have liked them if a nib craftsman had worked on them.  I am surprised by your experience with nibs.com.  I found their work perfect.  Goes to show that YMMV.  Different people have different experiences with the same vendor. 


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#22 tinta

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 19:14

Hello,

 

 I am relatively new to this community. But, I am not new to fountain pens  :) . I have been passionate about FPs (and pens in general) since childhood. 

I am sorry, if I am diverting the main subject of this forum topic.

 

I just wanted to make a post as a shout-out to one of the best Nib Meisters I have worked with - Deb Kinney. When I decided to customize nibs, I did a lot of research and got very good pointers from this community as far as Nib Meisters were concerned. Given the long turn around time with Mottishaw and Mike Masuyama, I decided to go with Deb. I was amazed at the work she did for me and that too in less than two weeks. The stub that she produced was silky smooth - smoother than my original nib. Ever since I have been sending her at least one customization request every month - I have had Deb customize my Pilot Custom Heritage 91, Sailor 1911, Sailor Pro Gear II, Platinum #3776, Lamy CP1 and the list goes on. I really recommend Deb's work - I guarantee that you wont be disappointed. 

 

I have used John Mottishaw's service only once. I had purchased from nibs.com Sailor Pro Gear II. Since I had read only great reviews about John Mottishaw's work, I decided to get a simple stub on my Sailor Pro Gear II. I paid $55 for this. When the pen arrived it was horrendous to say the least - it was too scratchy and pulled on the paper (I use Moleskine and Clairefontaine notebooks). I sent it back and I was asked to pay additional fees ($45). Even after the second round and having spent close to $120 (including shipping), I still got a extremely scratchy nib. I finally sent the to Deb and she waved her magic wand and wallah! a beautifully smooth stub. I hope I did not offend any avid fans of Mottishaw. But just wanted to let the team know that just be careful when you make a customization request. May be talking to the people at nibs.com on the phone and sending a writing sample might help (I did send a writing sample with my second request but did not talk to them on the phone).  

 

Thanks,

SJ

First of all SJ,  :W2FPN:

What you have said & what I'll write is on topic.

 

I am surprised at your experience with John's work at nibs.com.  In my limited experience, nib technicians (I don't call them nibmeisters) no matter how experienced or renowned, can at times grind a nib that does not work for you.  I've used the services of four of the well know nib techs. in the USA & have had the occasional work that had to be returned for a second (& even one for a third) look.

 

Also, every nib grinder's concept of what a stub or CI should be may be slightly different.  You need to communicate very clearly (if necessary by telephone or video) exactly what you expect from your finished edged nib. 

I currently have four nibs by ground John that are valued keepers,  with one nib that had to be returned to be reworked.  It was an 0.8 mm stub that was writing just too sharp for me.  When I received this stub back, after a slight re-shaping of the tipping, softening the corners of the writing edge, the stub nib has become a super every day writer. 

 

In addition, every experienced nib technician has a grind that they are really good at, a sort of signature grind.   For instance, if I wand a really forgiving "rolly polly" stub,  with well rounded corners, I send my nib to Pendleton Brown.  The butter-line-stub is his speciality.

 

That said, Pendleton has also ground for me two nibs with slightly sharper edges, producing increased line-width variation,... two fantastic cursive italics that are position sensitive, meaning that I have to hold them at just the right angle to allow the nib's writing edge to contact my paper. 

 

Even after more than 50 years of writing with "italic" style nibs, I still have to find that correct "sweet edge" for each individual nib.

Playing around with how you grip your pen, experimenting with holding your pen/nib at various angles to paper can be helpful & fun.

Have fun writing with an edged nib.

 

tinta


Edited by tinta, 02 January 2017 - 19:17.

*Sailor 1911-M, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Standard sized Brown Marbled Mozaique,(machined acrylic/rhodium),14c. 1.0 mm.CI (JM) *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm (BLS) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. (BLS) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#23 Bjeweled

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 23:24

Thank you for the thoughtful response to previous questions relating to the differences between cursive italic, stub nibs and italic nibs. I've taken a 55 year hiatus from using fountain pens. I've recently purchased quite a few fountain pens: 2 platinum 3776 century pens, two Faber Castel looms, two pilot metropolitans, a Twsbi Eco, a Jinhao 450, Nemosine Signularity, Jinhao 750, two Parker Urbans and am thinking of Lamy Nexx. I regret having purchased the pilot metropolitans. For some reason I find them j a little scratchy – I also bought some micromesh and I might try to work on the nibs a bit.
I have a few questions relating to these pens and which of them would lend themselves to a stub 1.1 nib. Because of muscle damage in my hands, I need a light pen, and a forgiving nib which will still allow me to have some flourish in lmy writing.
After researching information I found on this site, I I found Goulet.com I am thinking of buying their stub 1.1 number six size nib but I'm unsure which of the pens that I now own would the number six fit? And, which of the pins that I now own will allow me to exchange the nibs?Does anyone know about the quality of the stub 1.1 nib from Goulet? Is the stub the 1.1 going to allow me some line variation? Are there other nibs ,from other companies, that would be better for me to purchase given my restraints?
Finally, Could someone recommend some light, smooth writing and decent quality pens that would
be moderately priced.? Though I'd becoming obsessed with pens,I still have the restriction of a retired teachers income. Additionally, are there other places to purchase pens at a reasonable price other than Amazon? Because I live in a rural area of Maine, I have to be able to return that which I'm only able to get in the mail. Furthermore, I wish to say this is the best site I have found on the web for information given in a kindly and considerate manner. Regards, BARBARA

#24 Driften

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:31

Thank you for the thoughtful response to previous questions relating to the differences between cursive italic, stub nibs and italic nibs. I've taken a 55 year hiatus from using fountain pens. I've recently purchased quite a few fountain pens: 2 platinum 3776 century pens, two Faber Castel looms, two pilot metropolitans, a Twsbi Eco, a Jinhao 450, Nemosine Signularity, Jinhao 750, two Parker Urbans and am thinking of Lamy Nexx. I regret having purchased the pilot metropolitans. For some reason I find them j a little scratchy – I also bought some micromesh and I might try to work on the nibs a bit.
I have a few questions relating to these pens and which of them would lend themselves to a stub 1.1 nib. Because of muscle damage in my hands, I need a light pen, and a forgiving nib which will still allow me to have some flourish in lmy writing.
After researching information I found on this site, I I found Goulet.com I am thinking of buying their stub 1.1 number six size nib but I'm unsure which of the pens that I now own would the number six fit? And, which of the pins that I now own will allow me to exchange the nibs?Does anyone know about the quality of the stub 1.1 nib from Goulet? Is the stub the 1.1 going to allow me some line variation? Are there other nibs ,from other companies, that would be better for me to purchase given my restraints?
Finally, Could someone recommend some light, smooth writing and decent quality pens that would
be moderately priced.? Though I'd becoming obsessed with pens,I still have the restriction of a retired teachers income. Additionally, are there other places to purchase pens at a reasonable price other than Amazon? Because I live in a rural area of Maine, I have to be able to return that which I'm only able to get in the mail. Furthermore, I wish to say this is the best site I have found on the web for information given in a kindly and considerate manner. Regards, BARBARA

 

 

Nemosine makes a bunch of stub nibs for the Signularity so you might want to start there. They are only $10 each so you could afford to try several sizes. It says its a #6 so maybe the Goulet #6's could also work on that pen.



#25 Ed333

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 21:23

Thank you for the thoughtful response to previous questions relating to the differences between cursive italic, stub nibs and italic nibs. I've taken a 55 year hiatus from using fountain pens. I've recently purchased quite a few fountain pens: 2 platinum 3776 century pens, two Faber Castel looms, two pilot metropolitans, a Twsbi Eco, a Jinhao 450, Nemosine Signularity, Jinhao 750, two Parker Urbans and am thinking of Lamy Nexx. I regret having purchased the pilot metropolitans. For some reason I find them j a little scratchy – I also bought some micromesh and I might try to work on the nibs a bit.
I have a few questions relating to these pens and which of them would lend themselves to a stub 1.1 nib. Because of muscle damage in my hands, I need a light pen, and a forgiving nib which will still allow me to have some flourish in lmy writing.
After researching information I found on this site, I I found Goulet.com I am thinking of buying their stub 1.1 number six size nib but I'm unsure which of the pens that I now own would the number six fit? And, which of the pins that I now own will allow me to exchange the nibs?Does anyone know about the quality of the stub 1.1 nib from Goulet? Is the stub the 1.1 going to allow me some line variation? Are there other nibs ,from other companies, that would be better for me to purchase given my restraints?
Finally, Could someone recommend some light, smooth writing and decent quality pens that would
be moderately priced.? Though I'd becoming obsessed with pens,I still have the restriction of a retired teachers income. Additionally, are there other places to purchase pens at a reasonable price other than Amazon? Because I live in a rural area of Maine, I have to be able to return that which I'm only able to get in the mail. Furthermore, I wish to say this is the best site I have found on the web for information given in a kindly and considerate manner. Regards, BARBARA

Barbara, I have had two Edison Collier stub nibs which I enjoyed very much.  I also had Linda Kennedy put a cursive italic grind on a Pelikan medium nib, which has been very satisfactory, the only time so far that I have had nib work done.  I am also retired, with carefully monitored income, and I am also in Maine.



#26 ChaseTheLight

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 13:47

Hello Barbera! I am relatively new to fountain pens, and also to this forum. But I just wanted to say re your questions below, that my Lamy Nexx remains my favorite pen in terms of comfort and writing experience. I recommend it highly. It weighs very little, especially if unposted. The grip is incredibly comfortable - the section is nice and broad but not too broad, and the grip is some sort of rubberised material which is non slip, durable and feels kind to tired hands. I have written for hours with this pen and it never gives me cramps. It does have the famous Lamy triangular section, which you may or may not get on with, so that's to be considered. I only have a medium nib for mine but I know that other sizes and styles are easily obtained and they are very easy to swap over. The nib on mine is silky, works beautifully and has good flow. It might well have been the only fountain pen I ever bought, but the downside is that I don't like the cap. I have the anthracite version. It is functional but pretty ugly and in my opinion it unbalances the pen when posted, so I just write unposted and enjoy the look of the aluminium body of the pen without it. But I long for a pen that is as comfortable as the Nexx and beautiful too, so I have fallen down the rabbit hole and now I have a small but growing pen collection.

 

I have little experience with other nibs so I can't weigh in as to wether or not Lamy can provide what you would like best there. But I do know the Nexx is extremely comfortable, light, well priced and reliable.

 

Ha, I'm sorry I just wrote you an essay there, but when I saw someone thinking about buying this under-estimated pen i couldn't contain myself! I hope you have fun with all your new pens and find your favorite among them.

 

Thank you for the thoughtful response to previous questions relating to the differences between cursive italic, stub nibs and italic nibs. I've taken a 55 year hiatus from using fountain pens. I've recently purchased quite a few fountain pens: 2 platinum 3776 century pens, two Faber Castel looms, two pilot metropolitans, a Twsbi Eco, a Jinhao 450, Nemosine Signularity, Jinhao 750, two Parker Urbans and am thinking of Lamy Nexx.

 

 Because of muscle damage in my hands, I need a light pen, and a forgiving nib which will still allow me to have some flourish in ln my writing.
 



#27 jar

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 13:54

Hello Barbera! I am relatively new to fountain pens, and also to this forum. But I just wanted to say re your questions below, that my Lamy Nexx remains my favorite pen in terms of comfort and writing experience. I recommend it highly. It weighs very little, especially if unposted. The grip is incredibly comfortable - the section is nice and broad but not too broad, and the grip is some sort of rubberised material which is non slip, durable and feels kind to tired hands. I have written for hours with this pen and it never gives me cramps. It does have the famous Lamy triangular section, which you may or may not get on with, so that's to be considered. I only have a medium nib for mine but I know that other sizes and styles are easily obtained and they are very easy to swap over. The nib on mine is silky, works beautifully and has good flow. It might well have been the only fountain pen I ever bought, but the downside is that I don't like the cap. I have the anthracite version. It is functional but pretty ugly and in my opinion it unbalances the pen when posted, so I just write unposted and enjoy the look of the aluminium body of the pen without it. But I long for a pen that is as comfortable as the Nexx and beautiful too, so I have fallen down the rabbit hole and now I have a small but growing pen collection.

 

I have little experience with other nibs so I can't weigh in as to wether or not Lamy can provide what you would like best there. But I do know the Nexx is extremely comfortable, light, well priced and reliable.

 

Ha, I'm sorry I just wrote you an essay there, but when I saw someone thinking about buying this under-estimated pen i couldn't contain myself! I hope you have fun with all your new pens and find your favorite among them.

 

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#28 Reed_thoughts

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 15:53

Having both and using them daily, it is more difficult to write with the cursive italic, but it has greater line variation. 

 

... My next custom grind is likely to be another cursive italic by mike it work. (pictures of the pen and the writings are on my instagram and on facebook)



#29 ac12

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 20:00

 

Thank you for the thoughtful response to previous questions relating to the differences between cursive italic, stub nibs and italic nibs. I've taken a 55 year hiatus from using fountain pens. I've recently purchased quite a few fountain pens: 2 platinum 3776 century pens, two Faber Castel looms, two pilot metropolitans, a Twsbi Eco, a Jinhao 450, Nemosine Signularity, Jinhao 750, two Parker Urbans and am thinking of Lamy Nexx.

 

I regret having purchased the pilot metropolitans. For some reason I find them j a little scratchy – I also bought some micromesh and I might try to work on the nibs a bit.

 

I have a few questions relating to these pens and which of them would lend themselves to a stub 1.1 nib. Because of muscle damage in my hands, I need a light pen, and a forgiving nib which will still allow me to have some flourish in my writing.

After researching information I found on this site, I I found Goulet.com I am thinking of buying their stub 1.1 number six size nib but I'm unsure which of the pens that I now own would the number six fit? And, which of the pins that I now own will allow me to exchange the nibs?Does anyone know about the quality of the stub 1.1 nib from Goulet? Is the stub the 1.1 going to allow me some line variation? Are there other nibs ,from other companies, that would be better for me to purchase given my restraints?

Finally, Could someone recommend some light, smooth writing and decent quality pens that would be moderately priced.? Though I'd becoming obsessed with pens,I still have the restriction of a retired teachers income.

 

Additionally, are there other places to purchase pens at a reasonable price other than Amazon? Because I live in a rural area of Maine, I have to be able to return that which I'm only able to get in the mail. Furthermore, I wish to say this is the best site I have found on the web for information given in a kindly and considerate manner. Regards, BARBARA

 

I am surprised at your experience with the Pilot Metro.  Mine with a M nib is one of my smoothest nibs. 

If you have the F nib, that could be the reason.  In general, the finer the nib the scratchier it will be, and the more you have to pay attention to paper, ink and your hand.

 

Lets backup.

The writing experience is based on 4 variables.  Change any one, and you can go from good to bad, or bad to good.

  • The Pen.
    • In general, the finer the nib the scratchier it will feel.  The fine nib will follow the texture of the paper, and that creates a scratchy feel.
    • 90% of the scratchy pens that I run into, is because the tine is out of alignment.  Align the tines, and the pen writes smooth.  You need a 10x loupe to be able to see the alignment of the tines.
    • If the pen does not flow enough ink, there will be more friction between the nib and paper = scratchy feel.
  • The Paper.
    • For finer nibs, you need a HARD SMOOTH paper.  Note that some smooth paper (like some magazine paper) is not hard.
    • I have some paper that I will NOT use anything finer than a M nib, because it feels too scratchy with the finer nibs.
  • The Ink.
    • Ink is a lubricant.  You need enough ink between the nib and paper to lubricate the tip.  Not enough ink, or too thin/wet an ink and there will be more friction between the nib and the paper.
  • You the Writer.
    • You need to write with a light hand.  If you press the pen down, you increase the friction between the pen and the paper, making the pen feel scratchy.

A caution on any stub/cursive italic/italic nib.  You MUST hold the pen so that the tip of the nib is flat and level on the paper.  If you rotate the pen, and thus the nib, you will lift the slit off the paper.  When that happens the ink flow will stop.  The wider the nib, the more sensitive it will be to rotating the pen.

 

One of my favorite pens to use with a cursive italic (CI) nib is the Lamy joy.  It is a Safari with the long tail of a desk pen.  Very comfortable to write with.  I use a 1.1 nib on my joy.  I found the 1.5 just a bit too wide for my handwriting.

 

Here are my records of some light pens (some are my weights others are from the web):

  • Cross, Classic Century, 18 grams (8.1mm barrel diameter, one of the slimmest pens out there)
  • Lamy joy, 11 grams  (you do NOT post this pen)
  • Lamy Safari, 17 grams
  • Parker Vector, 15 grams
  • TWSBI Eco, 13 grams unposted / 21 grams posted  (I use the Eco unposted)

Vintage (no longer in production)

  • Parker 45, 13-17 grams
  • Parker 51, 18grams
  • Parker Arrow, 17-20 grams
  • Parker Classic, 15-17 grams, 8.5mm grip diameter (one of the slimmer pens out there)

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