Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies






Photo

Cursive Italic Vs Stub

nibs cursive italic stub

28 replies to this topic

#1 Vunter

Vunter

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 72 posts
  • Location:Minneapolis
  • Flag:

Posted 13 December 2016 - 23:06

I am purchasing an Italix Parson's Essential and plan on getting it with a Stub Nib, however, Mr. Pen has slightly different wording than Goulet Pens blog post so I am bit confused.

Mr. Pen calls the stub Cursive Stub and Italic (Medium Italic, Fine Italic, and Broad Italic).

Goulet Pens calls the stub Stub and Italic Cursive Italic.

 

Where I am getting confused is the word Cursive.  Is a cursive stub the same as a stub? and is a cursive italic the same as the above italics? Of course, I know the size differences between medium, fine, and broad.
 



Sponsored Content

#2 Joe in Seattle

Joe in Seattle

    Donor Pen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,501 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Washington
  • Flag:

Posted 13 December 2016 - 23:11

A stub is meant for cursive writing, does that help?
"how do I know what I think until I write it down?"

#3 Vunter

Vunter

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 72 posts
  • Location:Minneapolis
  • Flag:

Posted 13 December 2016 - 23:14

A stub is meant for cursive writing, does that help?

Yeah I understand what they are meant for.  Since I prefer Stub's over Italics I just want to make sure I know what I'm getting before I get it.  Like I just got a stub for my Lamy Safari.  Lamy just calls it a stub.  I dont want to get a stub from mr. pen expecting a stub only to find that a cursive stub might be different than just a stub.  Sorry if it seems like I'm talking in circles lol.



#4 pajaro

pajaro

    Amblin along like I had good sense.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,464 posts
  • Location:Tecumseh, MI
  • Flag:

Posted 13 December 2016 - 23:32

Cursive italic means a nib that is less sharp than an italic nib.  Presumably cursive stub indicates a stub not sharp, which I think is a redundancy and is confusing.  Cursive in these contexts indicates an italic less sharp at the corners.  Its use in reference to a stub is something like department of redundancy department.


"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#5 T4TEXAS

T4TEXAS

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 634 posts
  • Location:Deep In The Heart of Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 13 December 2016 - 23:46

Why not ask Mr. Pen?

"You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club."

- Jack London

 

SnailBadge.png

 

 

 


#6 mmg122

mmg122

    Mary Garavaglia

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,754 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI
  • Flag:

Posted 14 December 2016 - 00:14

According to Mr. Pen he calls his cursive stub because, unlike a regular stub, his grind rounds the edges of the stub to make them less sharp and easier to write with. Franklin-Christoph does the same thing with their stubs. Much more user friendly than a regular sharp edged stub, especially for beginners. Less digging into textured paper.

#7 tinta

tinta

    Zoë-kutya

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,709 posts
  • Location:in the "boonies",...North of the Big Smoke
  • Flag:

Posted 14 December 2016 - 00:43

Now I am confused. :huh:

 

ASAIK,  a stub is an edged nib that has rounded corners & can be used more easily for daily writing.  Half of my nibs are just this, a stub.  These are the nibs I prefer for daily (cursive) writing.

 

The other half of my nibs are CIs, with sharper corners, which makes these nibs more position sensitive.  I must write in a slower more deliberate way with cursive italics.

 

A regular stub should not be sharp at the corners.  I do not believe that there is a sharp edged stub. 

If the stub is sharp edged,  then it's either a cursive italic or may be even a formal italic.

 

Just my 0.02 CAD


*Sailor 1911-M, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Standard sized Brown Marbled Mozaique,(machined acrylic/rhodium),14c. 1.0 mm.CI (JM) *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm (BLS) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. (BLS) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#8 pajaro

pajaro

    Amblin along like I had good sense.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,464 posts
  • Location:Tecumseh, MI
  • Flag:

Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:34

According to Mr. Pen he calls his cursive stub because, unlike a regular stub, his grind rounds the edges of the stub to make them less sharp and easier to write with. Franklin-Christoph does the same thing with their stubs. Much more user friendly than a regular sharp edged stub, especially for beginners. Less digging into textured paper.

 

By the definition of a stub I have found here on FPN, a stub has rounded edges, while an italic has a sharp edge to give greater line variation.  A cursive italic is an italic with slightly less sharp edges than an italic, but it is not as rounded at the edges as a stub.  I am with Tinta.  Mr. Pen has apparently redefined the stub, and he has sown confusion.  I suggest to mmg122 that you do some more research in this forum about how stubs, cursive italics and italics are defined. 

 

I have never heard of a cursive stub, and Mr. Pen's use of the term is proprietary and applies to his work only.  If I found myself dealing with a nib tech who used proprietary and non standard terminology I might consider getting a second opinion.

 

People who use a proprietary terminology want to lock you into their system .  It prevents comparison of their goods and services with other vendors who will use industry standard terminology. 


Edited by pajaro, 14 December 2016 - 03:40.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#9 DrHumongous

DrHumongous

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Silver

  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:45

The pics on this page will help you out: http://www.richardsp...nibs/primer.htm

 

Consider a cursive italic somewhere between the pics of stub and italic at the top of that page. I find that it depends on who makes the pen too. It is subjective how sharp the corners are so one mans italic is another's cursive italic, and one man's cursive italic is another mans stub. Just depends on how much you want to round the corners.



#10 ac12

ac12

    Museum Piece

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,529 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA - SFO
  • Flag:

Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:46

There is a continuum of nibs from Stub->to->Cursive Italic->to->Itaic

 

  • On one end, the stub is the most rounded, and easiest to use for cursive writing.  So a cursive stub makes no sense to me.  A stub is NOT sharp.  If nib is sharp, it is an italic nib.
  • On the other end, the Italic has SHARP edges and corners.  Great for writing italic, but the sharp corners snag and scratch when writing cursive.
  • In the middle, is the Cursive Italic (CI), which is an Italic nib with rounded edges and corners, so that it writes like an italic, but can also be used for cursive writing.  But it is not so rounded as a stub.

Where in the continuum the CI nib is, and how rounded an Italic can be before it turns into a Cursive Italic is personal opinion.  And everyone has their own opinion.

 

IMHO, the Lamy italic nibs 1.1, 1.5, 1.9 are Cursive Italic nibs, in that the corners are rounded, and NOT sharp.  Yet others insist they are Italic nibs.  I use a Lamy 1.1 easily for cursive writing.


San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com


#11 pajaro

pajaro

    Amblin along like I had good sense.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,464 posts
  • Location:Tecumseh, MI
  • Flag:

Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:49

The pics on this page will help you out: http://www.richardsp...nibs/primer.htm

 

Consider a cursive italic somewhere between the pics of stub and italic at the top of that page. I find that it depends on who makes the pen too. It is subjective how sharp the corners are so one mans italic is another's cursive italic, and one man's cursive italic is another mans stub. Just depends on how much you want to round the corners.

Thanks, that was a good refresher on this terminology.


"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#12 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Pen Dust

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,355 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 14 December 2016 - 13:58

A while back...and on Richard Binder's com....Stub was easier to write with than Cursive Italic in it had rounded corners.....if they round the corners even more...what are you looking at a flat footed round ball? :yikes:

A super rounded Stub?????? :headsmack: :wallbash:  :bunny01: 

 

Well why not get German pens of the '50-60s. Soennecken, MB, Pelikan, Kaweco, Geha or Osmia. They are all stubbish nibs + are semi or maxi-semi-flex. They are line variation on demand.

 

Your nail/semi-nail stub or CI is max line variation at all times.

 

The difference was Cursive Italic was easier to write with than Italic, and Stubb easier to write with than Cursive Italic....it is my impression a newer nib form. Way back when....a decade or so go.

 

Stubs is easy to write with, I have a '36 Canadian Factory Parker BB nail stub on a '39-40 Vac. I have a maxi-semi-flex Australian (50's?)Sheaffer factory BB stub. They are easy to write with. And very, very different in one is a nail and the other is maxi-semi-flex.

 

Some day...I'm going to have my semi-nail BB 605's nib made stub. I have a CI that is either a Fat M or a skinny B or a M-B...in some tipping is lost when grinding. It was the pen below.

 

Cursive Italic is slightly rounded italic. You get some of the italic sharp line, but the corners are smoothed a bit so one can write with it. Actually I see Italic as a printing nib; drawing the letter, to get max out of it, then one is moving slower and lifting more so the sharp corners are not caught so often.

 

Pendelton Brown did my dead boring Lamy Persona 18 K OB nail into Cursive Italic. It has to be held more precisely than a stub. It gives a nice sharper line than a stub...if one looks hard enough. 

You should send a picture showing how you hold 'that' pen so the exact angle is achieved for either.

 

Pendelton Brown's work, pictures and hand writing.

And the 1990 Lamy Persona's cap with the reassessed clip...that clip and cap and the modern clip and cap for the 'new' Imporium ...is the difference between the two pens...both designed by the same guy. RIP.

The Imporium, has some nifty colored nibs, that are unfortunately different than this one. I'm very impressed with the 2X tine spread only... :( ...but very bendy :notworthy1:  'Springy' nib....better than MB or Falcon....IMO.

This nib had been an Oblique Broad before it was made CI.

IMG_3985_zpsbwkki74c.jpg

IMG_3993_zps8xttt6c2.jpg

IMG_3994_zpsnmbvoez0.jpg


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#13 amberleadavis

amberleadavis

    Inky! En-Abe-Lawyer

  • FPN Super Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,054 posts
  • Location:North Las Vegas
  • Flag:

Posted 16 December 2016 - 01:20

This was a good working definition for me from Pendemonium.com - BTW, LETTA is amazing.

 

Custom Nib Styles

 

Cursive Italic - straight nib end with iridium, corners slightly softened for exceptionally smooth cursive italic writing, suitable for left or right handed writers. A cursive italic nib allows you to achieve nice line width variation for everyday writing. There are no sharp corners as with straight italic nibs, so the nib will not catch on the paper.

 

Cursive Right Oblique - nib end ground to approximate 30 degree right angle, corners slightly softened for exceptionally smooth writing. (Look down at your right foot and see the outline of your toes! A Right Oblique nib angles the same way.) Many left handed writers prefer Right Oblique nibs. Most people who enjoy oblique nibs, do so because of the way they hold their pen, it angles down to the paper instead of being straight on. Oblique nibs *can* offer some line variation to users, but this is not their main function.

 

Cursive Left Oblique - nib end ground to approximate 30 degree left angle, corners slightly softened for exceptionally smooth writing. (Look down at your left foot and see the outline of your toes! A Left Oblique nib angles the same way.) Many right handed writers prefer Left Oblique nibs. Most people who enjoy oblique nibs, do so because of the way they hold their pen, it angles down to the paper instead of being straight on. Oblique nibs *can* offer some line variation to users, but this is not their main function.

 

Straight Italic - straight nib end with reduced iridium, produces a clear crisp italic line. Corners are left sharp for producing traditional Italic style calligraphy. Suitable for left or right handed writers. Straight italic nibs are not usually used for everyday writing, the sharp nib corners can easily catch on your paper if not held exactly the correct way!

 

Straight Right Oblique - nib end ground to approximate 30 degree right angle with reduced iridium, corners are left sharp for those of you preferring a very crisp line. (Look down at your right foot and see the outline of your toes! A Right Oblique nib angles the same way.) Many left handed writers prefer Right Oblique nibs.

 

Straight Left Oblique - nib end ground to approximate 30 degree left angle with reduced iridium, corners are left sharp for those of you preferring a very crisp line. (Look down at your left foot and see the outline of your toes! A Left Oblique nib angles the same way.) Many right handed writers prefer Left Oblique nibs.

 

Stub - nib end ground straight across with rounded corners. Stub nibs will provide some line variation, but not as much as an italic as more iridium is left on the nib and the corners are generously rounded.

 

Round Pointed - Most of the fountain pen nibs you purchase and use have round pointed nibs in varying widths from extra fine to extra broad. We can reduce the nib width of any of your round pointed nibs to a narrower width, ie: broad nibs can be ground to fine points.


Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

 

Want to get a special letter / gift from me, then create a Ghostly Avatar  

 

Participate in the newest Inky TODs: 

Why do I like those nibs? 

What do I like about my handwriting? 

Whose handwriting do I like?  

Which Script Will I learn? 

Which Inks for my Handwriting

 

Ink comparisons:  The Great PPS Comparison  366 Inks in 2016

 

Check out inks sorted by color:  Blue Purple Brown  Red Green Orange Black  Pinks  Yellows  Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal


#14 DNC

DNC

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 116 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 19 December 2016 - 11:24

Amberleadavis,  Thank you for your post.  Please give a description for the music nib.



#15 jar

jar

    A Vintage Pen has to be older than me.

  • Premium - Ruby

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,101 posts
  • Location:From Deep South Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 19 December 2016 - 13:04

Amberleadavis,  Thank you for your post.  Please give a description for the music nib.

medium800.jpg


My Sister's website :  Rose Hill Studios

My Website


#16 Bobje

Bobje

    We're all bozos on this bus.

  • FPN Super Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,906 posts
  • Location:North Carolina
  • Flag:

Posted 19 December 2016 - 13:17

Jar, darn good visual explanation of a music nib.


Reviews and articles on Fountain Pen Network

 

CHINA, JAPAN, AND INDIA

Hua Hong Blue Belter Penbbs 456 | Stationery | ASA Nauka in Dartmoor and Ebonite | ASA Azaadi | ASA Bheeshma | ASA Halwa | Ranga Model 8 and 8b | Ranga Emperor

ITALY AND THE UK

FILCAO Roxi | FILCAO Atlantica | Italix Churchman's Prescriptor

USA, INK, AND EXPERIMENTS

Bexley Prometheus | Route 54 Motor Oil | Black Swan in Icelandic Minty Bathwater | Robert Oster Aqua | Diamine Emerald Green | Mr. Pen Radiant Blue | Three Oysters Giwa | Flex Nib Modifications | Rollstoppers


#17 amberleadavis

amberleadavis

    Inky! En-Abe-Lawyer

  • FPN Super Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,054 posts
  • Location:North Las Vegas
  • Flag:

Posted 20 December 2016 - 22:06

Jar, that's a beautiful nib.


Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

 

Want to get a special letter / gift from me, then create a Ghostly Avatar  

 

Participate in the newest Inky TODs: 

Why do I like those nibs? 

What do I like about my handwriting? 

Whose handwriting do I like?  

Which Script Will I learn? 

Which Inks for my Handwriting

 

Ink comparisons:  The Great PPS Comparison  366 Inks in 2016

 

Check out inks sorted by color:  Blue Purple Brown  Red Green Orange Black  Pinks  Yellows  Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal


#18 sjpens

sjpens

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Silver

  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted 26 December 2016 - 03:49

Hello,

 

 I am relatively new to this community. But, I am not new to fountain pens  :) . I have been passionate about FPs (and pens in general) since childhood. 

I am sorry, if I am diverting the main subject of this forum topic.

 

I just wanted to make a post as a shout-out to one of the best Nib Meisters I have worked with - Deb Kinney. When I decided to customize nibs, I did a lot of research and got very good pointers from this community as far as Nib Meisters were concerned. Given the long turn around time with Mottishaw and Mike Masuyama, I decided to go with Deb. I was amazed at the work she did for me and that too in less than two weeks. The stub that she produced was silky smooth - smoother than my original nib. Ever since I have been sending her at least one customization request every month - I have had Deb customize my Pilot Custom Heritage 91, Sailor 1911, Sailor Pro Gear II, Platinum #3776, Lamy CP1 and the list goes on. I really recommend Deb's work - I guarantee that you wont be disappointed. 

 

I have used John Mottishaw's service only once. I had purchased from nibs.com Sailor Pro Gear II. Since I had read only great reviews about John Mottishaw's work, I decided to get a simple stub on my Sailor Pro Gear II. I paid $55 for this. When the pen arrived it was horrendous to say the least - it was too scratchy and pulled on the paper (I use Moleskine and Clairefontaine notebooks). I sent it back and I was asked to pay additional fees ($45). Even after the second round and having spent close to $120 (including shipping), I still got a extremely scratchy nib. I finally sent the to Deb and she waved her magic wand and wallah! a beautifully smooth stub. I hope I did not offend any avid fans of Mottishaw. But just wanted to let the team know that just be careful when you make a customization request. May be talking to the people at nibs.com on the phone and sending a writing sample might help (I did send a writing sample with my second request but did not talk to them on the phone).  

 

Thanks,

SJ



#19 mehandiratta

mehandiratta

    Museum Piece

  • FPN Super Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,677 posts
  • Location:Gurgaon, Delhi NCR
  • Flag:

Posted 26 December 2016 - 05:42

medium800.jpg

 

expensive tastes ...


vaibhav mehandiratta                               

architect & fountain pen connoisseur 

 

blog | instagram | twitter

 

 


#20 jar

jar

    A Vintage Pen has to be older than me.

  • Premium - Ruby

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,101 posts
  • Location:From Deep South Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 26 December 2016 - 12:46

 

expensive tastes ...

And the same nib on my Platinum Chartres Blue #3778 Century.

 

medium800.jpg

medium800.jpg

 

I usually just say tastes good.


My Sister's website :  Rose Hill Studios

My Website




Reply to this topic



  



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nibs, cursive italic, stub



Sponsored Content




|