Vere Foster

[milkb0at]

I quite like the Vere Foster handwriting system. I have the downloads of the Medium Series copy book, but I was wondering if there are other versions out there in the internet somewhere. I haven't found anything yet, but perhaps others have been more successful.

 

I'd like more info on the Upright Series (since for me I prefer less slant) and more info on the letter forms. I also wonder if there are explanations for the seeming inconsistencies present in the copy book. For example, it's not clear (although I can guess) why some letters have sharp joins (e.g. i, j, u) and others have rounded joins (e.g. m, y), or why some capitals are joined to the next letter and others aren't (e.g. C isn't joined, but E is, even though they have similar shapes).

Edited December 2, 2016 by milkb0at

[Inky.Fingers]

This script most resemble an English Roundhand. The degree of slant that you prefer is of your own choice. Some people write with a backward slant.

 

The exit stroke of each letter determines if it can be jointed or not. The sharpness of the joint (jointing abruptly) depends on the following letter, hence, different joint, will yield a rounded or more sharp joint.

 

I would prefer learning the script that you have most interest first, and leave the slant and joints for later. Once you have proficiency in the script, then you can try to join all letters if you like.

 

For reference to English Roundhand, try John Jenkins.

https://archive.org/details/JenkinsArtOfWriting

[milkb0at]

Thank you. I agree that it looks like Vere Foster is based off English Roundhand, so I'll have a read of that in the hope of gaining more information. But it would be great if there's an equivalent for the Vere Foster online somewhere. The back of the Vere Foster book does show that there are several other books in the series, including ones with more instruction on how letters are formed etc.

 

I prefer Vere Foster over English Roundhand.

 

The Upright Series isn't just about slant (in fact it's not much more upright than the Medium Series) but it looks like there are subtle differences in letter forms. For example, capital letters are narrower, and the way the 't' is crossed is different. The short example given also has it in more of a monoline stroke.

 

As far as joins go, from the English Roundhand it looks like most - if not all - entry joins are rounded , whereas the Foster has some letters with abrupt entry joins. I'd like to know how VF decided which ones were which. With VF, all lower case letters finish high, whether they are joined or not, apart from s.

[akustyk]

Thank you. I agree that it looks like Vere Foster is based off English Roundhand, so I'll have a read of that in the hope of gaining more information. But it would be great if there's an equivalent for the Vere Foster online somewhere. The back of the Vere Foster book does show that there are several other books in the series, including ones with more instruction on how letters are formed etc.

 

I prefer Vere Foster over English Roundhand.

 

The Upright Series isn't just about slant (in fact it's not much more upright than the Medium Series) but it looks like there are subtle differences in letter forms. For example, capital letters are narrower, and the way the 't' is crossed is different. The short example given also has it in more of a monoline stroke.

 

As far as joins go, from the English Roundhand it looks like most - if not all - entry joins are rounded , whereas the Foster has some letters with abrupt entry joins. I'd like to know how VF decided which ones were which. With VF, all lower case letters finish high, whether they are joined or not, apart from s.

 

It does look absolutely beautiful! Do you write this way?

[milkb0at]

Sadly not yet. Of the cursive styles I've tried (not many) this seems the most natural to me, so I suspect that whatever system I was taught at school here in the UK a few decades ago was related to it (and simpler still). Palmer makes no sense to me, English Roundhand is too fussy. I did some italic when I was younger too, I'm not a fan.

[Inky.Fingers]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ParramattaPaul]

It is likely that you were taught Marilon Richardson's script. Many U.K. as well as some of the Australian state schools systems adopted it. Some still teach it.

Edited December 4, 2016 by ParramattaPaul

[ParramattaPaul]

An example of Marion Richardson's cursive script: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IRj7HNy8L.jpg

[akustyk]

Sadly not yet. Of the cursive styles I've tried (not many) this seems the most natural to me, so I suspect that whatever system I was taught at school here in the UK a few decades ago was related to it (and simpler still). Palmer makes no sense to me, English Roundhand is too fussy. I did some italic when I was younger too, I'm not a fan.

Thanks! Why do you say "Palmer makes no sense to me?" Is it a legibility issue?

[milkb0at]

Thanks! Why do you say "Palmer makes no sense to me?" Is it a legibility issue?

 

Legibility to some extent, but mostly aesthetically and in terms of muscle memory. I can appreciate good Palmer writing (like yourself) but there must be something about the differences between UK cursive vs the (mostly) American Palmer that means the latter is a bit weird.

 

It is likely that you were taught Marion Richardson's script. Many U.K. as well as some of the Australian state schools systems adopted it. Some still teach it.

 

I'll have a look at that, thanks. Looks familiar! Like the VF, it probably isn't actually what I was taught, but close. I don't think I ever knew the precise name, and I probably can't remember the details anyway.

 

Sorry _InkyFingers, I don't mean to offend! I ruined italic for myself, since it's something I tried when I was younger (probably with a cheap calligraphy set), wasn't very good at it, so now have an aversion to it. I'll probably have the same problem if I ever do find the precise style I was taught. The VF seems familiar but with an extra bit of interest.

 

I won't use a flex pen for VF, by the way. I think it'll be fine (the examples in the front of the copy book seem fairly monoline, even though the bulk of the book is with flex), and seems to come out nice when I try it with pencil.

[Inky.Fingers]

None taken...

 

Richardson is based on Italic. It have all the characteristics of an italic hand. I picked up a set of manuscript italic pen this past weekend, the medium nib is such a joy to write with.

 

As someone said...face your fear. I disliked italic and Gothic ever since in middle school. That had vanished since I took up to improve my penmanship. I started with Business Spencerian, it was done with Biro. Not long after, I sought to improve aesthetic of writing, so I went flex. Horrible experience by all means, to me. Until I succumbed to try italic.

 

Disbelief it was a great joy, a bit of flare, a bit of Flourishing...such a joy.

 

Everyone's experience is different. For me, I love edged pen more than flex. I believe that I will eventually love flex again. As they say...face your fear.

[coljaspal]

I was searching for Vere Foster workbooks on the internet and landed up on this forum! It appears that old method, beautiful that it was, is now obsolete.

 

In the late 1950s we were taught longhand English Writing in the primary wing of an Irish Christian Brothers' school in New Delhi. Thank you for the links that have been posted here to the John Jenkins and Palmer writing methods ... I will now explore them. Not too late at age 64 to restraighten (or recurve?) one's handwriting, is it?

[Randal6393]

To _InkyFingers: Would recommend a copy of Eleanor Winter's Italic and Copperplate Calligraphy. The two hands are intimately related, the study of both helped me with the development of a personal style. Now, for formal work, I use both Italic and Copperplate -- more than one string to that bow. Though I will admit, it was the pressure of writing out 100 wedding invitations in Copperplate that really helped me advance in that hand.

 

To coljaspal: Certainly not too late. Study of a hand and working on it is always worth the effort, no matter the age. Best of luck to you.

 

Enjoy,

[Inky.Fingers]

@Randal6393

 

Engrosser script is beautiful. One who us skilled with a broad edged pen will be able to closely emulate Engrosser script. As for the Chancery script, I have always admire Cataneo.

 

Thanks for the most welcomed suggestion.

[Randal6393]

@_InkyFingers:

 

Oh, yes, Engrosser's Script can be done well with a broad-edged pen. Ken Fraser put up a thread about using italic pens to do scripts based on the engraver's burin. Still, the slight difference of using a flex nib is an interesting skill to learn.

 

Cataneo is truly a master of the Chancery style of italic. Italic is based in scripts like Arrighi's style as well as many others. Looking at the writings of the early Italic hands and some study of same is great for learning the basics of the script. Heartily recommend occasionally going back to the basics, it recalls things that have been lost.

 

Enjoy,

[coljaspal]

Thank you Randal!