Battle Of The Holy Grails

[Aditkamath26]

Just curious about this. Who would win the battle of the HOLY GRAIL or FLAGSHIP Pens?

.) Visconti Homosapiens/Divina

.) Montblanc Meisterstuck 149

.) Pelikan M1000

.) Sailor King of Pen

.) Anything from Nakaya

Give me your take on these pens and if you have other suggestions, please chime in. Who knows, maybe one day I would have on of these (At least I hope so).

[macaddicted]

It's weird, but I haven't had one for a really long time. My grail pen was a Pelikan M800 Blue Ocean. I have it now. There have been other pens that I thought would be cool to try, but nothing that I'd go out of my way to hunt for.

 

BTW, I've had all your dream pens. Since you asked:

The MB and KOP are very similar. Get one of the specialty nibs on the KOP, you'll enjoy it more. I like my Florentine Hills HS over my Steel; it just looks better. The M1000 is a nice, large pen. Overall I like it more than the MB or KOP as a base pen. Divina? Get one of the stacked coin Wall Street/Divina blends. They're much better looking IMHO, and more comfortable in the hand.

 

Haven't had a Nakya. Went with Danitrio instead.

[Pendel]

All of these have passed through my hands, and some are still in my collection.

Based on the list, I think you consider everyday usability as part of the "Grail-liness", and this includes an easy of maintenance and reliability. The other aspect to consider is the expressiveness of the nib, and with that in mind I would argue that M1000 and KOP are at the head of the pack, all things considered, unless we are talking celluloid MB models from the <50-s. Nakayas have lovely bodies, but the nibs are inferior to M1000 and KOP.

To me Visconti with their basic Bock nibs are a step below the Nakayas, and furthermore I am not a fan of their single/double reservoir systems which are quite hard to clean.

 

Cheers,

 

:-)

Edited November 6, 2016 by Pendel

[mirosc]

Why multiple threads? no use for bloating up the forum...

 

anyway the question is moot: you state the question so as if there were an absolute right, yet it's nothing more than personal preference. Even more what's the help to ask for our personal preference when in the end you are still in need of finding your own preference?

 

for the sake of an answer:

none

1. had two HS, sold both. not very practical for everyday use.

2. had two 149, sold both. too uncomfortable.

3. fumbled several M1000, bought none. don't like the aesthetics and size.

4. same with KoP. too little difference to 149, missing originality.

5. still have several Nakayas, but all have shortcomings.

solution: I got a penmaker an a nibmeister to make myself a pen as I like it. Still wasn't a grail. Now a grail is everything that satisfies me whenever it gets the job done nicely

[EdeIstein88]

trust me.. i've been there in your potition.. decide want to buy 1 ultimate pen...

after watching all youtube video review i decided to buy MB 149..

and then a month later i order visconti Homosapiens....

and now im waitting in my mail M1000....

and after that maybe Nakaya... i adore nakaya quality from several video review..

 

you get deeper every pen purchase... this hole is more scary than the black hole........

[Lam1]

I see what you did, posting here and at the MB forum

 

Out of the pens that you mention, I don't have the divina and the KoP. I am debating if I should buy a KoP or not, because of the very small and poorly made Sailor converter and the current debate on whether or not Sailor uses plastic rings for the trim.

 

The Visconti that I have is the Homo Sapiens maxi bronze. It is a beautiful pen with a great nib, but the finish leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion (the cap threads in mine are horribly made) and the filling system can be very finicky. It is not very reliable in my opinion.

 

I have one Nakaya, recently arrived and it is a beautiful pen. In fact, the most beautiful of the bunch. But it is also the one that seems to be the most fragile (the cap is very thin below the threads and now I understand why I've seen several pics of Nakaya caps broken in that region). It also has the worse filling system of the ones I have (I think it is even worse than the platinum 3776 because of the way the converter fits in the Nakaya).

 

This brings me to the M1000 and 149. For me the M1000 is miles ahead: Pelikan's pistons are (IME) much better than Montblanc's, the easiness of cleaning the Pelikan vs. the pain to clean the MB and the M1000 soft nib vs. the 149 stiff nib make it non-contest for me. Still, I like all of them. I just the M1000 a lot better.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Lam1

[Aditkamath26]

It's weird, but I haven't had one for a really long time. My grail pen was a Pelikan M800 Blue Ocean. I have it now. There have been other pens that I thought would be cool to try, but nothing that I'd go out of my way to hunt for.

 

BTW, I've had all your dream pens. Since you asked:

The MB and KOP are very similar. Get one of the specialty nibs on the KOP, you'll enjoy it more. I like my Florentine Hills HS over my Steel; it just looks better. The M1000 is a nice, large pen. Overall I like it more than the MB or KOP as a base pen. Divina? Get one of the stacked coin Wall Street/Divina blends. They're much better looking IMHO, and more comfortable in the hand.

 

Haven't had a Nakya. Went with Danitrio instead.

 

I love the blue elegance divina.

[Aditkamath26]

I see what you did, posting here and at the MB forum

 

Out of the pens that you mention, I don't have the divina and the KoP. I am debating if I should buy a KoP or not, because of the very small and poorly made Sailor converter and the current debate on whether or not Sailor uses plastic rings for the trim.

 

The Visconti that I have is the Homo Sapiens maxi bronze. It is a beautiful pen with a great nib, but the finish leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion (the cap threads in mine are horribly made) and the filling system can be very finicky. It is not very reliable in my opinion.

 

I have one Nakaya, recently arrived and it is a beautiful pen. In fact, the most beautiful of the bunch. But it is also the one that seems to be the most fragile (the cap is very thin below the threads and now I understand why I've seen several pics of Nakaya caps broken in that region). It also has the worse filling system of the ones I have (I think it is even worse than the platinum 3776 because of the way the converter fits in the Nakaya).

 

This brings me to the M1000 and 149. For me the M1000 is miles ahead: Pelikan's pistons are (IME) much better than Montblanc's, the easiness of cleaning the Pelikan vs. the pain to clean the MB and the M1000 soft nib vs. the 149 stiff nib make it non-contest for me. Still, I like all of them. I just the M1000 a lot better.

 

Not only pelican and MB I have also posted this in the Japan and Italy forums as the pens are all different from different countries and brands. I didn't want a biased thread.

[Aditkamath26]

I see what you did, posting here and at the MB forum

 

Out of the pens that you mention, I don't have the divina and the KoP. I am debating if I should buy a KoP or not, because of the very small and poorly made Sailor converter and the current debate on whether or not Sailor uses plastic rings for the trim.

 

The Visconti that I have is the Homo Sapiens maxi bronze. It is a beautiful pen with a great nib, but the finish leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion (the cap threads in mine are horribly made) and the filling system can be very finicky. It is not very reliable in my opinion.

 

I have one Nakaya, recently arrived and it is a beautiful pen. In fact, the most beautiful of the bunch. But it is also the one that seems to be the most fragile (the cap is very thin below the threads and now I understand why I've seen several pics of Nakaya caps broken in that region). It also has the worse filling system of the ones I have (I think it is even worse than the platinum 3776 because of the way the converter fits in the Nakaya).

 

This brings me to the M1000 and 149. For me the M1000 is miles ahead: Pelikan's pistons are (IME) much better than Montblanc's, the easiness of cleaning the Pelikan vs. the pain to clean the MB and the M1000 soft nib vs. the 149 stiff nib make it non-contest for me. Still, I like all of them. I just the M1000 a lot better.

 

I have seen many pics of the Homosapiens and the threads look horrible because of material it is made from. Can you exactly tell me what went wrong with your Nakaya because I have seen numerous praises about Nakayas. And I might have a bit of leaning towards MB as it is locally available here in the United Arab Emirates. Can I have some pics of the pens?

[Aditkamath26]

I think a Nakaya (either Neo standard aka tamenuri or Naka ai Heki tamenuri) with a broad nib with added flex from John Mottishaw. Maybe with an engraving.

[Chrissy]

My grail Pelikan would have to be the Stockholm M605. Difficult to find though.

 

I would never go 'higher' than a M600/605

[ink-syringe]

 

Just curious about this. Who would win the battle of the HOLY GRAIL or FLAGSHIP Pens?

.) Visconti Homosapiens/Divina

.) Montblanc Meisterstuck 149

.) Pelikan M1000

.) Sailor King of Pen

.) Anything from Nakaya

Give me your take on these pens and if you have other suggestions, please chime in. Who knows, maybe one day I would have on of these (At least I hope so).

 

 

 

I hate the M1000. Had 2 happily sold both. Love my 800. M1000 is a terrible pen (imo).

 

Visconti is ugly (sorry)

 

Sailor is nice as a writer and good ergonomics but kind of boring and small ink capacity.

 

That leaves the Nakaya or the MB 149 for me I guess. I've never owned a Nakaya (though many Platinum pens, which I love) and I have one MB (bone stock 146, which I adore) but ...

 

Over both (money is no object right?) I'd probably take the Aurora 88 Large.

[jmccarty3]

What is frightening is that, thanks to pen shows, FPN, eBay, and other enablers, I have most of the pens I've ever searched for.

 

Don't tell my wife.

[edwardt]

trust me.. i've been there in your potition.. decide want to buy 1 ultimate pen...

after watching all youtube video review i decided to buy MB 149..

and then a month later i order visconti Homosapiens....

and now im waitting in my mail M1000....

and after that maybe Nakaya... i adore nakaya quality from several video review..

 

you get deeper every pen purchase... this hole is more scary than the black hole........

I'm so glad to hear that I'm not alone. My experience started with the Le Grand Blue Hour, then Chopin, then Mozart, Heritage 1912, couple of vintage 146s, then Leo Tolstoy, Mark Twain and now waiting for Gaius in the mail... I need help.

[Niagara Falls]

Hello,

 

I have no Nakaya, but the rest of the mentioned pens.

Visconti Divina Desert Springs Oversized is nearly perfectly balanced and has a good lenght for writing unposted. But I sent it back for repair after arrival because the tines of the fine nib were slightly misaligned and so it was scratchy, and there was a faulty assembling of barrel and grip section. The overall quality is not comparable to MB or Pelikan anyway, there are too many unpolished parts, especially in the inner of the cap. The filling system (pull and turn) is nothing more than a installed converter, therefore the ink capacity is worse. The Palladium nib has, in my opinion, no advantages to a common gold nib. I paid 615 Euro for it.

 

Pelikan M1000 is a classical piston filler with a really huge capacity. The pen is a bit top heavy, so it is not perfectly balanced. It is a long pen, but sleeker tha the MB 149 , so no need to post the huge cap. The nib is huge and soft, some would call it springy, but it is not flexible. Therefore the inkflow is really wet. I have ef nibs and they write like a medium. You need dry inks for this pen (Pelikan blueblack or other iron gall containing ones) otherwise you could read what you wrote on some more sheets of paper lying behind the one you wrote on. Some may like that, I do not really appreciaty such wet nibs.

The quality is flawless, the pricing here in Germany lower than MB and Visconti Divina, about 570 Euro.

 

The MB 149 is the thickest, but not the longest one. Classically shaped (Torpedo) and colored (deep black) the pen is pure understatement. It is a pistofiller like the Pelikan, but with less capacity (my opinion) and the piston works not as smooth as the ones we know from Pelikan.

Perfectly balanced, because the metal parts of the mechanics are not as huge as in the Pelikan. The nib is stiff, but not utterly hard. And the nib is perfectly shapes. It is huge, but not as long as the Pelikan nib, but it has a broad shoulder and a slim waiste. I think the most beautiful nib design of all. The flow is normal, the nibs smooth. I have the 90th. Anniversary with a fine nib and its flow is steady and reliable, but not really wet. And I have the Platinum with an ef nib which is somehow dry but has no skipping. The prices for the MB 149 are, due to its reputation and luxury surcharge, really high for a only black and cigar shaped pen (I paid 710 Euro for the 90th Anniversary and 790 for the Paltinum).

 

If you have any questions, please feel free and ask.

 

Cheers, Gunther

 

 

PS: I regularely use my two 149ers filled with a mixture of Rohrer & Klingner Salix and Pelikan blueblack 2 : 1

Edited November 7, 2016 by Niagara Falls

[Aditkamath26]

thanks for all replies. Now I am down to the 149 and a Nakaya

[Padawan]

No , it is too early to stop such a battle (discussion).

Without these ones it is not complete:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/311950-conid-caiso-kingsize-bulkfiller/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/312331-conid-kingsize-caiso-flaptop-fpr/

 

http://www.conidpen.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=collections&cat=kingsize

[alexander_k]

I've been lucky enough to have used all these pens for extended periods but the M1000 (having stopped at my beloved M800) and they're all worth having if money is no obstacle. If you have the opportunity to get any with a less than stiff-as-nail nib, then I'd go for that. A vintage 149 would be top of my list in this respect, followed by the KOP (mine has a nicely responsive nib) and any Visconti with a Dreamtouch nib.

[Oranges and Apples]

The problem with the MontBlanc Meisterstuck 149, Pelikan M1000, and the Sailor King of Pen is that they are not unique. The Visconti Homo Sapiens is something that stands outs from the bunch along with any Nakaya but there is nothing exciting about them.

 

I personally find that the Pilot M90 is more unique and stands out from the crowd of the listed pens. The Visconti Homo Sapiens (which I own) has an interesting material and a flexible nib but I find it's performance to be sub par for a $500+ pen.

[Lam1]

 

I have seen many pics of the Homosapiens and the threads look horrible because of material it is made from. Can you exactly tell me what went wrong with your Nakaya because I have seen numerous praises about Nakayas. And I might have a bit of leaning towards MB as it is locally available here in the United Arab Emirates. Can I have some pics of the pens?

 

Hum... I don't think the material has anything to do with the Visconti HS cap threads being poorly made (they do a fine job elsewhere in the pen). It is just complete lack of attention to details, IMO.

 

There is nothing wrong with my Nakaya. It is just that I think the filling system is poorly designed (worse than their cheaper platinum 3776). Also, I know that Urushi is hard, but the cap lip in mine (a cigar) is paper thin; much thiner that this one

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/236131-i-broke-my-nakaya/

 

and it feels very fragile there (I can't take pictures now, since I'm at work). Nakaya receives many praises, and they are deserved, since they are very beautiful. But if you look carefully you will see that people do mention that they have some imperfections. I am pleased that I bought mine and I probably will add a couple more to the collection, but I have many other pens that I consider better pens (among them the M1000, and the 149).