Pilot Vp Nib In Diamine Registar's (Iron Gall Ink)

[ChrisV]

Hello, its been some time since I posted, I still lurk around from time to time.

 

I use the Pilot VP more than any other pen over the last year or so. Its very convenient, durable, reliable, easily replaceable fountain pen. I almost always keep it loaded with Diamine Registrar's ink (iron gall) for its fast drying no mess water-proof quality. Going on a year or two now..

To the point.. Its the VP rhodium plated 18k fine point nib. It appears the nib maybe shows erosion wearing on rhodium toward front of tines. Will it stop at the 18k gold? I was thinking pure rhodium is more resistant than 18k and lower gold alloy depending on what the remaining % composition. Do they make 24k VP nibs? It would be iron gall ink proof, no? I suppose rhodium's unique characteristics don't lend itself perfectly to very acidic conditions though its almost half the density of gold for a noble metal that is less soft and more scratch proof. I kind of hoped it to last the harsh conditions similar to 24k gold given the "octet rule". Its hard to see the erosion with my photo? I still think it is a great pen choice for harsh inks, better than 14k for sure. Don't put this ink in your antique 14k pens!

 

Feel welcome to post any opinions or similar experiences!

Edited October 27, 2016 by ChrisV

[ChrisV]

Do any of you own both Pilot VP and Lamy Dialog 3? How do you compare them? I would bet its a better writer than the Pilot VP..

 

Perhaps they make Lamy Dialog nibs in 24k gold or some pure noble metal that won't erode in iron gall ink?

[ChrisV]

One day after writing this the nib tines folded out while writing. Guess it was in worse shape than I thought. Almost like it was eaten from inside out and bent like old rusted steel.

 

Any suggestions for a more stable iron gall pen?

Edited October 28, 2016 by ChrisV

[Noihvo]

 

 

[ChrisV]

Thanks for the response. I usually rinsed it out with dilute ammonia once or twice a month before refilling.

I was surprised too! My first "crashed airplane" nib incident.

Definitely have to replace nib. I doubt the Pilot warranty covers sulfuric acid erosion.

I no longer use that ink in any other pen, it ate one of my pelikan quite fast (the gold ring on end was corroded off in the matter of weeks).

 

Unfortunately Diamine Registars is my favorite ink. I never have to worry about it running from getting rained on etc. I kind of like the way it ages darker too.. I just loaded Noodler's "polar blue" in my italic Pelikan to see how I like its bullet proof qualities. This stuff will probably stain the barrel, no?

Edited October 28, 2016 by ChrisV

[sciumbasci]

Your problem is ammonia. Never use ammonia and iron gall inks, for one is acidic, and the other is highly basic. The best solution to rinse your pen with IG in is a diluted vinegar and water.

 

If you really love how Diamine Registrar's darkens over time, I can recommend ESSRI. Someone (might have been Bo Bo Elsen?) called it the Golden Standard of Registrar's Inks.

 

Otherwise, for extra safety, you could try the (very) tame Rohrer&Klingner Scabix, which is a 1:1 mix of Salix and Scabiosa (although it's not exactly a blue/black ink)

[ChrisV]

The ammonia added to its decay? Interesting, I had assumed it would neutralize and clean but I suppose its corrosive on the opposite side of PH scale.

 

Thanks for the tip on ESSRI ink? I will search for a bottle.

[grainweevil]

Here ya go, Chris - linky.

[phardy]

The ammonia added to its decay? Interesting, I had assumed it would neutralize and clean but I suppose its corrosive on the opposite side of PH scale.

 

It's been decades since I took a chem class, but isn't the result of mixing an acid and a base a salt? Flushing a pen with weak brine doesn't sound good. Glad to hear you could just replace the nib assembly.

[Mathematics Teacher]

You may consider getting a stainless steel nib unit for your Vanishing Point if you wanna keep using Diamine Registrar's. This should avoid future corrosion, and from what I've read, they have a similar feel to the 18K nib units, if a little stiffer.

 

I use a gray Esterbrook J with a medium italic steel nib as my designated Diamine Registrar's ink pen, but I do love my VP.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Mathematics Teacher

[Jezza]

I have used R&K Salix ink with both 14k and 18k nibs with no ill effects. The Rhodium wash used to plate gold nibs is pretty thin. Moreover, 18k gold is much more resistant to acids than stainless steel. Something else must have been at play here.

[ChrisV]

 

It's been decades since I took a chem class, but isn't the result of mixing an acid and a base a salt? Flushing a pen with weak brine doesn't sound good. Glad to hear you could just replace the nib assembly.

 

Yes, acids/bases either form salts, some of which may precipitate out of solution or "buffers" the solution to have a more neutral ph, higher but more even numbers of H+ ions and OH- ions in solution.

 

Over time the iron gall ink solution leaves a precipitate all by itself which I assumed is some form of iron sulfate given its reputation to contain sulfuric acid. Though I don't think it can be because its blue-black and not red or green. I am told its tannic acid and iron (iron-tannate), tannic acid was originally extracted from Gallnuts so it sounds about right.

 

Chemistry is interesting but complicated =)

 

I may try a few steel nibs but most likely get a new 18k nib and new bottle of ink. I have an old shaeffer italic but I hate to dissolve it. This bottle is getting old and dirty which may add to its acidity. It doesn't start out as pale when writing and the bottom had a lot of dark salt sitting which I decanted out.

Edited October 29, 2016 by ChrisV

[ChrisV]

Just a heads up. I tossed the old bottle of Diamine registrars (what little remained) and got the ESSRI ink. Its very good. I still prefer the Diamine for its dry no mess aspects and it changes color better. Diamines is better for its ability to write on terrible paper in damp conditions without trouble, iron gall fanatics may agree. But, if you like a more wet and lubricated ink, ESSRI is better. All personal preference I suppose. I thoroughly enjoy the ESSRI and may be using it predominantly for a long time to come. Who knows..

 

Thanks all! Feel free to post anything related to iron gall and the pens you use them in.

 

Edit: If you have a bottle of Diamine registrars or ESSRI and don't want it, please mail it to me. I will pay shipping =)

Edited November 5, 2016 by ChrisV

[fc2462]

I was using Diamine Registrar's in one of my Pelikans with an 18K nib and I found that the nib was fine but it literally melted the plastic feed.

[ItwasLuck]

Just a heads up. I tossed the old bottle of Diamine registrars (what little remained) and got the ESSRI ink. Its very good. I still prefer the Diamine for its dry no mess aspects and it changes color better. Diamines is better for its ability to write on terrible paper in damp conditions without trouble, iron gall fanatics may agree. But, if you like a more wet and lubricated ink, ESSRI is better. All personal preference I suppose. I thoroughly enjoy the ESSRI and may be using it predominantly for a long time to come. Who knows..

 

Thanks all! Feel free to post anything related to iron gall and the pens you use them in.

 

Edit: If you have a bottle of Diamine registrars or ESSRI and don't want it, please mail it to me. I will pay shipping =)

 

Dude, if you like ESSRI but want better flow. Give Akkerman #10 a shot. It's amazing, It works on every single paper I've tried it on. And yes even my London Fog can write on RECEIPT paper (3rd world country paper sucks!), did I mention that's with a JUICY 1.3mm Pd stub?

 

I use Akkerman #10 Blue-Black (IG, basically Diamine Registrar's but with better flow) on the following pens:

 

Pilot Custom 823 Black Demonstrator - 14K Gold Nib (Note I'm intentionally torturing this pen by leaving it unused 90% of the time, still works on the first stroke and the feed is the same as it ever was)

Visconti HS London Fog - 23K Pd Nib

I've yet to try the ink on my Kakadu but then again my Visconti Kakadu is busy with MB Toffee Brown atm.

 

Also I keep around 4-5ml of IG ink in my Visconti Travelling Inkwell at all times.

 

I have yet to see any corrosion in either pens. Neither barrels have stained and I should mention I simply flush my pens twice a month using distilled water and nothing more regardless of the number of times I refill either pens. Although I might try some diluted vinegar solution if staining does become an issue. <- I highly doubt it though.

Of course I'm in love with IG inks and Akkerman #10 will always be the gold standard for me. I might give MB Permanent Blue or Black a try next however.

 

In terms of hard starting issues, none of the two mentions have had these problems. As I said before the flow is amazing with this ink. Did I mention the stub dries extremely fast on TR paper? Yeah that was a real eyeopener for me!

 

Hope this information helps, I know a lot of people here are very much afraid of IG inks in general but those who use IG inks love them to death why? Well the shading is amazing (no binary shading that you get with your typical inks) and you never have to worry about bleed or feathering (ever). And personally I love writing in a beautiful almost torquiose color and seeing it turn to a dark blue in a matter of seconds (on the stub). In an hour? Turns to a nice darkish grey color, just lovely and it even retains the shading. Of course you won't find sheen with IG inks (non-KWZ inks) but hell I've never been into sheen in inks anyways.

 

For those worried about the feed somehow being destroyed by IG inks.. Well how do I put this lightly... IG inks have a very low pH, around 3. Why did I mention this? Well simply to point out that if a feed gets damaged somehow by IG ink, there must be some other factors in play. I say this considering the simple fact that THE safest ink of all, Waterman Serenity Blue (Florida Blue whatever) has a pH of 3 too! Yet it has no problems being used in old vintage sacs. I don't see how IG can be any more harmful.

 

The ONLY thing one must worry about IG inks is the sediment formation. This is why the biggest tip anyone can give you with IG ink is to use the pen as regularly as possible so that the ink "doesn't dry out". Once it does and enough of the clear transparent Fe sediments accumulate, one will have a VERY tough time getting it cleaned from the pen. ESPECIALLY if the pen has no removable parts.

Another tip is to never shake the entire bottle of ink containing any amounts of IG. It's best to fill from a separate bottle by transferring the ink from the main bottle to a "temporary one" in order to avoid the sedimentation from building up. As times passes on all IG inks in bottles will eventually form chunks of this iron that you do NOT want in your pens so most suggest doing this.

Edited December 27, 2016 by ItwasLuck

[Bo Bo Olson]

ESSR was said to be a bit better than Diamine Register ink.

 

I've not had any problem with it.

I have it in an EF Reform 1745 also. In the gold wash of the nib didn't last more than minutes which had nothing to do with ESSR....which is in the pen for the first time.

2 X for E5.00 something is not a going to have a gold wash that is more than wave it in the air thick.

 

I have in in my Waterman 52 with an Ideal gold nib...no gold marking on it...but it's gold. There is a huge thread on ESSR....I called it a sneaky ink, Sandy1 called it a mischievous ink. It is very much an ink that acts different on different papers. I once did a 17 pen, 47 paper test of that ink.

 

Some day I'll put it back up once I learn how to use a scanner.

Hey my smart Typewriter works fine....it's no need for peripherals...that need the instruction book opened.

[eharriett]

I have Diamine Registrar's in an Esterbrook inkwell desk set. I wash that sucker religiously once a month before putting the ink back in it. If I don't make with the soap and the scrubber, there's one mother of a residue in it. I only needed to see that once to see there's no way, as fantastic an ink as it is for my needs, I would ever put it in a pen.

 

So yes, I agree the ink is great. But, for my daily work pen (also a Pilot VP), no I don't think it will make it.