Understanding Paper Grade?

[LokiLaufeyson]

How do I know (aside from obvious feathering and bleed through) that my paper is high enough quality?

I have a Hilroy Studio Pro Sketch Book-- it's 50lb paper, acid free and it says "versatile paper for use with

charcoals, pastels, pencils and pens" it doesn't bleed through and doesn't feather,

is that indication enough that it's a high enough quality to use?

 

I really am having a bit of trouble understanding paper grades.

[Bo Bo Olson]

There is not perfect nib, no perfect paper nor perfect ink.....there is however combinations that are perfect. Do write them down.

 

Outside of the Japanese Tomoe(sp) 70g and Rhoda 80g...and they now make a 90g, one needs 90 laser paper to have nice shading.

80g computer paper is only good for printing...not for fountain pens. Ink Jet paper is to be avoided at all costs in it is designed for rapid absorption of ink jet ink, making it feather.

 

Shading is caused by the ink sitting on top of the paper for a few seconds drying into two colors. Herbin is a good shading ink....some Pelikan 4001's, MB or R&K inks.

Supersaturated ink....is the boring vivid monotone inks.....as you can tell I like shading inks and there are inks with sheen....that I'm not yet really into...but that is coming.

 

Nibs can give you line variation above the ink tones....semi-flex later for you or now...'true' regular flex....found in the Pelikan 200 or semi-vintage pre mid '90's or vintage '70 and before. That is a nib and ink combo on good to better paper.

 

I had assumed that the higher the weight the better the paper must be. I was wrong.

 

Gmund makes both art and fountain pen friendly paper and you want the fountain pen paper over art papers. These are expensive papers going from $50 for 50 sheets or $50 for 35 sheets.

I bought some samples....of three or so different papers and colors at 90,100,110, 120 and 150&170.

Heavier was not always better. To my I found that some nibs, with some inks did better on the a 90 or 100g papers than the 150-170g paper. That's what assume does to you and me.

 

Different colors matter; beige, ivory, white.

 

Coating of the paper matters perhaps most of all. I had a cheap ball point pad ( :crybaby:no watermark so I can never find out what company make it.) ....in I was not using a fountain pen for some decades, that was stuck in the good Zanders Bond paper that was too good to use in my old Jukie Daisywheel printer that I had before I got a laser printer. Too good for a laser printer too, unless I had to.

I had 10 sheets to that pad...I now have six....saving it like a miser. I had had some 49 papers, some given to me that I used in an ink test.

Two of the better papers for shading were that one and Eaton's Corrasable 16 pound 25% cotton typewriting paper. The back side of the Eaton's bled like crazy. But typing paper is 'one' sided. They never wasted money coating both sides as good as the top side.

That cheap 'no name' pad was good on both sides.

 

Papers from the 20-70's were the golden age of papers....all papers were coated so fountain pens could be used....then came the bottom line written by a roller ball user....coating costs money stop wasting my bonus.

So good coated fountain pen friendly papers are now some what rare.

 

Moleskine is a very bad fountain pen paper, in it is designed for ball points....so one needs an EF nib and a super dry ink or it will bleed through.

 

There are bleed through...you can read from the other side.

Show through....almost read it.

Ghost, can write over it but it is there.

Thick enough or ink is fast drying so one don't see a ghost is a better paper/nib ink combo.

 

Inks are the easiest thing, nibs next....paper requires much more learning and the willingness to buy different recommended papers.

Good to better paper costs a couple Cans of Coke or Cups of Starbucks coffee more than regular 80g copy paper. There are good Brazilian paper you can get at Staples in the US....you lucky folks.

For good cheap Euro paper I get Clairefontaine veloute 90g spiral notebooks....Oxford Optic 90g which is also in Red&Black notebooks is also a good cheaper paper.

 

There are many very good middle class papers....I find 100% cotton sinfully good to write on....but it is not a shading paper...they feather. 50% is also a bit too much cotton. 25% is good.

Southworth is a good paper.

 

I prefer if possible laser paper over laser and ink jet...in a compromise must have been made....for printers. As a writer why take compromise in the long run. In the short run Southworth is good.

 

Fugi-something (once a name) makes a very fine paper from all accounts...better than HP. On my list to get.

 

The very best papers and there are papers much more expensive than those $50 Gmund papers....are something to look at for Christmas, or save up a couple of Christmases for. Grail paper, like grail pens or grail inks.

 

Sadly, I've still not gotten around to Clairefontaine Triumphe the super slick paper that you don't want to use your butter smooth nibs on....it's been on my list to get for the last 5 years.

 

Goulet/Gullet sp....offers small amounts of sample packs of real good paper, to go with samples of various inks.

 

What ever you do ....do not...buy Avery Zweckform laser paper. It is poor at 90g and just as poor at 100g. (Brunnen paper is very poor too.)

My laser printer is old...from before the 'die now' counter was added, it won't feed that 100g paper....so I will put it down stairs for someone to take for a more modern printer or find a school kid to give it too.

 

M&K paper comes in three varieties and is worth online ordering of each.One is a tad better then the others but I don't remember which in it was a real small tad. (It is 'made' by Brunnen...but really ain't Brunnen....or I'd not recommend it..

 

Zander paper is good..order a sample kit.

Belgium Crown Mills makes good paper, but remember what I said about 100% cotton.

 

There are a number of American good papers....that the fools don't make metric A-4 so can't be sold in the rest of the world. You can look them up....Mohawk rings a faint bell....I don't chase American paper....too far away.

Good paper is going to cost good money.....but you will have much of that ream the rest of your life....in it's too good to put in a printer.

You can get good 90-100g printer paper.....or the better papers that never see a printer.

 

I would never dream of putting G.Lalo Verge de France 160g in a printer.... I do have to get some of that in 90 or 100g....it will be different from the Heavy Paper. Got some G. Lalo Velin pur Cotton...50% cotton...125 g....got to get some 90-100g of that too.

 

The more I talk about paper the less I know I know.

I feel almost like a 'noobie' in paper.

 

 

When you go to Ink Reviews look up the guru Sandy1 for any ink..she will show you on "4-5 common papers" with 4-5 normal widthed pens....how much difference paper makes to an ink.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[Beauport]

...........

When you go to Ink Reviews look up the guru Sandy1 for any ink..she will show you on "4-5 common papers" with 4-5 normal widthed pens....how much difference paper makes to an ink.

Thank you very much for this very interesting and very informative post! Started my day learning many things.

[Notgatherox]

Typically, the thicker the paper, the more FP friendly it should be, relatively. Thicker paper entails less showthrough, and probably no bleedthrough. There are of course exceptions to this rule.

 

Other factors play a rule too - like coating. Coated papers (think Tomoe River) would mean the ink sits on top of the coating, showing sheen and shading. But because ink on coated paper dries via evaporation (not absorption like normal paper), it takes a longer time to dry.

 

Another thing to consider is how well the paper absorbs ink. Ideally, you want paper that resists absorption of ink, which gets you less feathering and bleedthrough.

 

Some recommendations for paper: HP Laserjet 24lb, HP Premium Choice Laserjet 32lb. Search around the forums here, you can probably find more.

 

TL;DR: As a rule of thumb, thicker paper = more likely to be FP friendly. However, not always true in all cases - thin paper can be FP friendly (Tomoe River) while thick paper can feather like mad. There is correlation, but correlation is not necessarily causation.

 

 

~Epic

Edited October 22, 2016 by Lord Epic

[LokiLaufeyson]

Wow! So much information!

[ItwasLuck]

Also if your a bit budget minded, if you write with a medium nib or smaller, Double A copy paper is really good. One ream costs only 4 dollars from where I get it, no shipping either and a ream is about 500 sheets. The quality is pretty decent I must admit, it feathers only slightly with really wet nibs like that on a Visconti medium. But apart from that it's pretty good. Made in thailand and just make sure it's the environmentally friendly one.

[Sasha Royale]

Generally, " 50 lb " paper means 500 sheets of 22" x 17 " size will weigh 50 pounds. The designation varies with the type and purpose of the paper. Then, there is the metric system. " High-enough-quality " is very subjective. For which purposes do you use the paper ? Do you like the results ? Yes ? Then, it is good enough.

 

I know. It is not so helpful, but that is the reason WE are here together. Read, ask what fellow members use. Try some your self.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

Just to keep things interesting, one might also consider the 'archival' aspects of the paper.

 

Post 38 and links within shed some light on those aspects https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/265201-inky-t-o-d-have-you-ever-had-an-ink-fade/?p=3195217 (HP moved/deleted pages for their blurbs. OOPS)

 

Bye,

S1

Edited October 25, 2016 by Sandy1