I Replaced The Sac In My Esterbrook, Now It Hardly Holds Any Ink.

[Witsius]

A little while back, I replaced the sac in my Esterbrook LJ. I used a No. 15 sac as I replaced the J-bar as well with a modern replacement. The idea being that the modern J-bars take up more space in the barrel and often require a narrower sac. The thing is, now the pen runs out of ink after just a couple of pages of writing. It's like that skinny sac just can't suck any ink into it.

 

Trying to sort out just what was happening, I filled the pen with water, and squirted it into an old ink sample vial. The pen only sucks up about .25ml. That's the most I can get this thing to fill.

 

I'm thinking of replacing the No. 15 sac with a No. 16. Could the smaller No. 15 sac be the culprit, or could I have done something else wrong?

[Beechwood]

It sounds like you have twisted the sac when you put the barrell back on. To check this remove the barrell again and see how much ink you have by just squeezing the sac by hand. If it is not twisted did you cut the sac to the correct length? Could it possibly be kinked?

 

The difference in ink capacity between a 15 and a 16 is hardly noticeable.

[Kenlowe]

there is a useful youtube vid on how to change a sac in an esterbrook.

 

No dialogue.

 

[Witsius]

I checked that. The sac isn't twisted, and the length appears to be good. I followed Richard Binder's instructions for the correct sac length.

[Kenlowe]

Is there any remains of the old sac perhaps?

[Pickwick]

I checked that. The sac isn't twisted, and the length appears to be good. I followed Richard Binder's instructions for the correct sac length.

 

Usually on replacing a sac, or filling for the first time need 3-4 lever pulls to expel air. Have you tried this? Open the lever before putting the pen in the ink. Close the lever and pull the pen from the ink and slowly open the lever. If it bubbles toward the end, then put the pen back in the ink with the lever still open, keep doing this until the bubbles stop.

 

I use an Esterbrook Dollar for letter writing extensively and find this works for me.

[FarmBoy]

I checked that. The sac isn't twisted, and the length appears to be good. I followed Richard Binder's instructions for the correct sac length.

What is the Binder Length?

Esterbrook #16 length is 1-15/16"

[Witsius]

The sac is about 2-1/16" long.

 

I removed the barrel and filled the pen with water by squeezing the sac with my fingers. Doing the netted me about .5ml of ink. So, that's getting closer to what a converter would hold. For some reason, the pen just doesn't fill well when the J-bar is used.

 

I checked where the J-bar ends in relation to the end of the nipple where the sac attaches, and it's pretty close. In fact, it's probably closer than it should be. I'd say the distance between the end of the bar and the nipple is maybe 1/32." I wonder if that has something to do with this problem.

[estie1948]

Someone correct me if I am wrong (for the first time in my life again), but the J-bar or pressure bar should be depressing the sac all along the length of the J-bar, not just at the end by the nipple. When the lever is lifted, the J-bar depresses the sac. When the lever is returned to its normal position, the J-bar no longer depresses the sac and, if the nib is held in the ink, ink is drawn into the sac. It is advised to hold the nib in the ink for a slow count to ten ( one . . . Mississippi . . . two . . . Mississippi . . .). I usually repeat this process for three (okay, sometimes four times).

 

After all that, I will say that the new J-bar does seems to be a bit longer than the original J-bar. I am not sure it is too long. However, you may need to shorten the new J-bar by cutting and filing the end of it to make it closer to the correct length. I have heard of someone putting the back end on the J-bar into a bit more curve, but I don't know how that is done (but I can make a guess) or how well it works (but I can make a guess).

 

-David (Estie).

[Witsius]

Someone correct me if I am wrong (for the first time in my life again), but the J-bar or pressure bar should be depressing the sac all along the length of the J-bar, not just at the end by the nipple. When the lever is lifted, the J-bar depresses the sac. When the lever is returned to its normal position, the J-bar no longer depresses the sac and, if the nib is held in the ink, ink is drawn into the sac. It is advised to hold the nib in the ink for a slow count to ten ( one . . . Mississippi . . . two . . . Mississippi . . .). I usually repeat this process for three (okay, sometimes four times).

 

After all that, I will say that the new J-bar does seems to be a bit longer than the original J-bar. I am not sure it is too long. However, you may need to shorten the new J-bar by cutting and filing the end of it to make it closer to the correct length. I have heard of someone putting the back end on the J-bar into a bit more curve, but I don't know how that is done (but I can make a guess) or how well it works (but I can make a guess).

 

-David (Estie).

 

 

You're right; the J-bar should depress the sac all along the length of the bar, and as far as I can tell, it does on mine. I was just wondering why mine doesn't seem to fill well. I was just wondering whether or not the length my particular J-bar is having some kind of detrimental impact on the sac's ability to fill properly. (I do let the pen sit in the ink for about 10 seconds after releasing the lever to let the sac fully draw up all the ink it can.)

 

As far as repeating the filling process in order to get a full load, that doesn't seem to help in my case. As I understand it, a regular sac filler won't get any fuller by repeating the filling process. In order to get all the air out of the sac and replace that air with ink, you'd need a breather tube. That's why you can fill something like a Parker 51 by depressing the sac four times; it has a breather tube.

[Pickwick]

 

 

You're right; the J-bar should depress the sac all along the length of the bar, and as far as I can tell, it does on mine. I was just wondering why mine doesn't seem to fill well. I was just wondering whether or not the length my particular J-bar is having some kind of detrimental impact on the sac's ability to fill properly. (I do let the pen sit in the ink for about 10 seconds after releasing the lever to let the sac fully draw up all the ink it can.)

 

As far as repeating the filling process in order to get a full load, that doesn't seem to help in my case. As I understand it, a regular sac filler won't get any fuller by repeating the filling process. In order to get all the air out of the sac and replace that air with ink, you'd need a breather tube. That's why you can fill something like a Parker 51 by depressing the sac four times; it has a breather tube.

 

That is not the case. I have had manufacturer instructions received with lever fill pens stating: in order to expel air repeated filling is recommended.

[Ron Z]

I would look for one of two things - the sac getting squished somewhere - either compressed or twisted, or the pressure bar. Esterbrooks use one of two size sacs - $16 for the small pens including pastel, SJ and J with the sac tray. The Dollar pens and J use a #18.

 

It is possible that the end of the pressure bar is catching on the edge of the sac nipple so not compressing the sac. Measure from the edge of the barrel to the end of the pressure bar. A great way is to put a chop stick or thin dowel down in and your thumb nail against the end of the barrel. Hold the chop stick against the edge on the section that meets the edge of the barrel. You should have at least 1/4" if not 3/8" between your thumb nail and the end of the sac nipple. If there isn't, you are likely to have problems with the pen filling. The sac could be pulled off of the sac nipple, or punctured, or the pressure bar won't press against the sac properly.

[Witsius]

I would look for one of two things - the sac getting squished somewhere - either compressed or twisted, or the pressure bar. Esterbrooks use one of two size sacs - $16 for the small pens including pastel, SJ and J with the sac tray. The Dollar pens and J use a #18.

 

It is possible that the end of the pressure bar is catching on the edge of the sac nipple so not compressing the sac. Measure from the edge of the barrel to the end of the pressure bar. A great way is to put a chop stick or thin dowel down in and your thumb nail against the end of the barrel. Hold the chop stick against the edge on the section that meets the edge of the barrel. You should have at least 1/4" if not 3/8" between your thumb nail and the end of the sac nipple. If there isn't, you are likely to have problems with the pen filling. The sac could be pulled off of the sac nipple, or punctured, or the pressure bar won't press against the sac properly.

 

 

Thanks, Ron.

 

I think that's exactly the problem, the pressure bar is too close to the nipple, thus not compressing the sac all the way. I'll have to trim it back. The end of my bar is only about 1/32" away from the nipple.

[gregamckinney]

 

That is not the case. I have had manufacturer instructions received with lever fill pens stating: in order to expel air repeated filling is recommended.

 

I've seen this too, but I don't understand how it can work. There is no breather tube. Every cycle is going to expel ink, right?

 

greg

[Pickwick]

 

I've seen this too, but I don't understand how it can work. There is no breather tube. Every cycle is going to expel ink, right?

 

greg

 

Yes, After the initial fill, lift pen from the ink, open the lever, if bubbles appear, keep the lever open, dip the pen back in the ink and close lever. Keep doing this until bubbles are no longer present. I've been familiar with lever fill pens these past 65 years, and have replaced sacs and J bars without experiencing any problems.

 

Not sure when a breather tube was introduced. Other members may be more familiar with that history.

[pajaro]

I have noted this with lever fill pens, Sheaffer and Esterbrook. More lever cycles up to about four bring in more total ink. I have even noted with converters, squeeze fill and piston fill, that more cycles yields more total ink. I don't claim to know why, but I know what I see. This kind of thing makes me want to just use ballpoints.