Entrance Into The Vintage World

[Vunter]

After browsing tons of topics here on FPN and watching a metric butt ton of youtube videos from the major FP channels I am thinking about trying to locate some vintage pens. I know many suggest Pen Shows as a good place to start searching for vintage pens. I don't know of any in MN and can't really afford making the trip to others outside of the state since I am finishing up my college degree and don't have a ton of money for travel.

I know people recommend ebay as a good place to search for vintage pens; however I kind of don't know where to begin as far as making sure I don't have one pulled over on me. For instance If I were searching for a Parker 51 or a vintage Waterman I would want to make sure I was getting the real deal. I watched an SBREbrown vid where he was explaining about someone in his community bought a Montblanc 149 and it ended up being a fake. Now I do know that is a bit of a different situation as a Montblanc 149 is a substantially more expensive pen and I would assume is one of those pens that those type of people would try and knock off.

I've been doing my own research and I know with part of my search is going to be learning the ins and outs of what to look for, I however would appreciate any advice or tips in terms of ebay. Maybe even ebay sellers that many people here on FPN trust to sell the real deal.

[Mon34480]

First rule of thumb if you're using ebay is to disregard the selling/asking price for pens. I can sell a pencil for 200$ doesnt mean it's worth 200$, what they are selling for doesnt matter unless someone else is willing to pay the asking price. If you're trying to get a basic evaluation of the value a pen use the sold listings option to look at past sales. Many rookies enter the vintage world are unfortunately preyed upon by many dishonest sellers.

 

Rare doesn't mean expensive. Everything is supply and demand the worth of the pen is only as much as the highest bidder.

 

Never assume anything eg. If the seller doesnt explicitly state that the pen comes with a nib or if they lack proper photos to give an accurate representation of what they are selling give them a pass.

 

Never soak your vintage pens in water to clean up dried ink unless you know exactly what the pen is made of as many vintage pens (notably conway stewart) use casein which will dissolve in water.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Alteyz

[Notgatherox]

Set a budget for what you want and don't go beyond that - bidding wars are irrational and may cause you to overpay for the pen.

 

Know what you are looking out for, say a Pelikan 140, that has a 14k gold nib.

If you see the seller claim his/her 140 has a steel nib, it's not an original nib.

 

For first foray into vintage, I suggest you look for reputable dealers. Yes, they cost more than eBay, but they back their pens with a warranty. You pay for the certainty that if anything were to go wrong (which can happen!), they will be there for you. Some dealers I've seen recommended are parker51.com, the PENguin, Peyton Street Pens etc. (No affiliation blah blah)

 

YMMV.

 

 

~Epic

Edited October 15, 2016 by Lord Epic

[amk]

Ebay can be great if you are quite mean with your bidding prices and buy a pen assuming it's got issues, and you can fix them. Lucky dip. However if you want a vintage pen you can use and enjoy without worries, you're better off either buying at a pen show, or as Lord Epic says, buy from a reputable dealer.

[carlos.q]

If your looking for reliable vintage pens you should check out Peyton Street Pens: http://www.peytonstreetpens.com

 

Another good place to start, specially for vintage Pelikans, is the site by Rick Propas: http://www.thepenguinpen.com

 

You can get great vintage pens from these (and other sites) which will generally be more expensive than eBay, but you will get a restored pen with warranty and friendly service.

 

There are many great sellers here in the FPN classifieds. You just have to know what you want and be patient.

[Vunter]

Set a budget for what you want and don't go beyond that - bidding wars are irrational and may cause you to overpay for the pen.

 

Know what you are looking out for, say a Pelikan 140, that has a 14k gold nib.

If you see the seller claim his/her 140 has a steel nib, it's not an original nib.

 

For first foray into vintage, I suggest you look for reputable dealers. Yes, they cost more than eBay, but they back their pens with a warranty. You pay for the certainty that if anything were to go wrong (which can happen!), they will be there for you. Some dealers I've seen recommended are parker51.com, the PENguin, Peyton Street Pens etc. (No affiliation blah blah)

 

YMMV.

 

 

~Epic

 

 

If your looking for reliable vintage pens you should check out Peyton Street Pens: http://www.peytonstreetpens.com

 

Another good place to start, specially for vintage Pelikans, is the site by Rick Propas: http://www.thepenguinpen.com

 

You can get great vintage pens from these (and other sites) which will generally be more expensive than eBay, but you will get a restored pen with warranty and friendly service.

 

There are many great sellers here in the FPN classifieds. You just have to know what you want and be patient.

These sites are great. Thanks for the links; I think I may buy from these dealers first before elsewhere to ease myself in.

[Lam1]

In addition to the very good advice given above, I'd say that if you are starting and don't really know what you want, hit the antiques in your region. Minneapolis has a ton of them, and they will not always have something decently priced, but every now and then you will find something to play with, learn how to do basic restoration and, in the process, learn what you want in a vintage pen.

 

Last time I was in the twin cities I found an Esterbrook J, in excellent condition, for $6.00. All it took was a new sac and it writes fantastic for less than 8 bucks.

[Vunter]

In addition to the very good advice given above, I'd say that if you are starting and don't really know what you want, hit the antiques in your region. Minneapolis has a ton of them, and they will not always have something decently priced, but every now and then you will find something to play with, learn how to do basic restoration and, in the process, learn what you want in a vintage pen.

 

Last time I was in the twin cities I found an Esterbrook J, in excellent condition, for $6.00. All it took was a new sac and it writes fantastic for less than 8 bucks.

This is a great tip as well; never thought to look at those places. I'll have to search for the antique shops around Minneapolis.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'd pay a bit more and buy it on the com's sale section. The seller wants to keep his good name and will know more than most who sell gramp's pen, on Ebay. You have someone that will listen if your pen is not as described.

 

On Ebay if the nib is not shown, it is not there.....someone took the 'valuable' gold nib and will try to trade it in on a two pack of beer.

 

Take your time.....Do Not join 'The Pen of the Week in the Mail Club!!!'.....nor Pen of the Month.

Been there; rented the table the guy sold the T-shirts on.

 

Now where do you start your Vintage pens? Some would think '80's or 70's.

Others 50-60s. WW2 and before?

 

What do you want the nib to do?

Most P-51's are nails, as far as I know the P-75 has a semi-nail nib. I do have a P-45 that has a 'true' regular flex nib...but it was made in England. Those made in the Stages might not have a real regular flex nib.

 

Some '50's Sheaffers have a semi-flex nib....others a regular flex....and some are nails. I have an Australian Snorkel that is maxi-semi-flex.....and an English Parker Jr. Duofold that is semi-flex....in they had to compete with Swan pens which went from regular flex, semi-flex to superflex.

 

Some vintage pens are narrower than modern....you need to look in the Sub sections for different makes, and eras.

Cartridge pens are a good place to start....in you can find a converter which is so much cheaper than expensive cartridges....but there is next to nothing that can go wrong with a good used old....vintage cartridge pen...mid-50's on.

 

I live in Germany so chased piston pens.

 

How many pens do you now have. I suggest EF (good for editing) and B in Nail....and M and F in 'true' regular flex. Those would be your nibs to use with shading inks....and for that you need 90g or better laser paper.

EF you need a vivid boring supersaturated ink....to see it....and IMO EF is too narrow to really shade with.

B can be a fun nib....and later you can have it made into a stub or cursive italic when you start getting bored with it. It's wide enough to be ground 'down' in it will lose a tad of width when going stub and or CI.

 

After you have that starting set....for your 5-6th pen you could look at German '50's semi-flex piston pens.

 

Spend a bit more...here on the com....get a better pen. It will work...have no nib problems or anything else.

[bsenn]

Fountain pen recycler is near Minneapolis. I don't know if they restore, but they probably have cart/converter pens or 51 aeros which you can see and touch in person.

 

http://www.fountainpenrecycler.com

[PS104]

I would stay away from eBay. I've been burned a couple of times. I chalk it up as being a part of the learning curve

If there is a B&M pen store near patronize them. You can actually hold it and write with it. How it fits in your hand is as important as how it writes. You'll have a knowledgeable owner and staff to answer any questions

Lastly wrt to sellers, I highly recommend Ron Zorn at mainstreetpens.com. I've dealt with him for many years and have never been disappointed. He restore all the pens he sells and I have never bought a clunker

[rochester21]

As someone living in the States, it`s super easy to track down parkers and watermans, the only difference is that buying from ebay will probably get you unrestored pens, whereas in the classifieds section you can get proper pens at usually decent prices.

 

Besides, if you need work done on a pen, again it`s super easy to find the people and parts necessary for repairs.

 

And i have never seen a fake parker 51, just poorly mantained parker 51s.

Edited October 16, 2016 by rochester21

[Vunter]

Upon everyone's advice I think I am going to stay away from ebay and use the classifieds, dealers listed above, and a few local spots that people have recommend. I am really happy with all the real informative responses. This helps a ton and gives me a lot of direction.

[carlos.q]

We all love a happy ending...

 

Just make sure that once you buy the pen you post some pictures here on FPN. Or maybe even a review?

[corgicoupe]

Unless you are experienced at evaluating and restoring, buying from reputable dealers is the safe path. Restoration, including mailing, will cost $40+. That's okay if you find a family heirloom or someone graciously gives you a pen, but not so good if you just paid good money for an unknown.

[inkstainedruth]

I've gotten a lot of pens on eBay. Yes, I've been burned a few times, but the hits outweigh the misses.

1) Never bid more than you can afford -- it's easy to get caught up in the bidding, so pick what your absolute maximum bid is. If you get outbid (or sniped at the last second), shrug and move on -- there will always be another pen that might be in your price range, and is in as good or better condition (the first Plum 51 I bid on went for way more than I could afford; the second one, I got for less than money than where I'd quit bidding on the first one -- and in fact for less than my intermediate maximum bid was; the first one may have been in better condition, but I wasn't looking for a pen to put in a case, and it turns out to be a great writer (and probably an M nib ). And no-one but me will know there's corrosion on the sac sleeve, because it's inside the barrel.

2) Do your research! As someone else said, look at the pictures and ask questions about the condition (cracks/chips/bite marks/engraving for the barrel and cap, bent or twisted tines, or missing tipping on nibs). If the photos are dark or blurry, ask for better ones. Also ask if the pen was restored (and by whom and/or what work was done -- some sellers may think that polishing it up is good enough, but not if you're looking for something to actually use). Walk away if the seller gives you grief about it. Read about the make/model as much as possible -- there's a wealth of information in the various brand focus sub-forums, as well as online.

3) If the Bay of Evil still scares you, try to find a pen show near you ("near" being a relative concept -- the closest show to where I live is the Ohio Pen Show -- and that's a roughly 3-1/2 hours drive. Even if you can only go for a day, you will be able to ask questions and handle the pens to see how they feel in your hand (with the sellers' permissions, of course). No point in buying a pen that is too heavy or large -- you won't want to write with it. And you may decide that you don't like hooded nibs, or find that lever fillers are too awkward for you to work, or just that a particular/brand model is too small for your hand

4) Hunt the nib. this is advice that Bo Bo Olsen often gives, and it's true. A third or fourth tier pen might have a good nib on it (I bought a no-name lever filler last year in a small antiques store across the street from a much larger establishment with lots of booths: all I found in the big place was a couple of junkers; in the small place I ended up with a pen with a 14K music nib -- for $20 US. All because I looked at the nib instead of discounting the pen out of hand. It needed a bit of nib work, and I still need to figure out what size sac it needs, but what the heck. It was cheap enough for me to take a risk, at that price.

5) If you do want to try a risk on eBay, don't nickel and dime the price (remember -- if the current bid is $22, don't just try bidding $22.50 -- bid, say, more what you think the pen is worth, and if you're the high bidder it will *register* at whatever the standard increment bid to beat the previous bid -- so it looks as if you've bid $22.50 (and you may end up paying $22.50). Or the $72.59 that was your maximum. Also, bidding slightly odd amounts (say, $34.77 rather than $34.75) can help.

Hope this helps some.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Kelly G]

Another tip on eBay; some sellers are absolutely reliable. A case in point is tbickiii. He is a member of these forums and he sells top tier fully restored vintage pens. You likely won't get a rock bottom price but you also won't get burned on a pen. Be patient and pay attention and you will learn what to watch for on eBay.

Good luck with your pen hunting!