Sailor 21K, Gold-Plated Plastic Ring?

[WillyVanDerKuijlen]

A friend's pen.

Nib is good, but he is a little disappointed about its rings‘ material.

A few days of frequent use...

Edited October 10, 2016 by WillyVanDerKuijlen

[zchen]

How recent is the pen? Is it scratch off or turned in color? There was a recent notification on Sailor's homepage about plating problems on a recent batch of pens (http://www.sailor.co.jp/pdf/notice/20160823_discoloration-of-capring.pdf). Tt was about the rings changing color to a rainbow look due to the layer of plating beneath the top gold plated layer changing from nickel to silver. It would have affected pens from July 2015 - July 2016.

 

Otherwise I haven't had that degree of plating loss my Sailors, could be a manufacturing defect?

[WillyVanDerKuijlen]

How recent is the pen? Is it scratch off or turned in color? There was a recent notification on Sailor's homepage about plating problems on a recent batch of pens (http://www.sailor.co.jp/pdf/notice/20160823_discoloration-of-capring.pdf). Tt was about the rings changing color to a rainbow look due to the layer of plating beneath the top gold plated layer changing from nickel to silver. It would have affected pens from July 2015 - July 2016.

 

Otherwise I haven't had that degree of plating loss my Sailors, could be a manufacturing defect?

Yes and thanks for the information sharing, he may drop the pen on the ground by accident, but I just wonder the inside material. Is it made of plastic or brass?

[zchen]

Yes and thanks for the information sharing, he may drop the pen on the ground by accident, but I just wonder the inside material. Is it made of plastic or brass?

 

The Sailor Japanese site refers to the Trim Rings as metal parts (金属部品), but does not specify Brass. From my own older models that had plating loss it does reveal brass color metal underneath.

[WillyVanDerKuijlen]

 

The Sailor Japanese site refers to the Trim Rings as metal parts (金属部品), but does not specify Brass. From my own older models that had plating loss it does reveal brass color metal underneath.

Specially thanks!

[Erik Dalton]

It appears Sailor does plate plastic. I just bought this burgundy 1911 and at first I thought it was dried ink on the section ring. I cleaned the pen, pulled out my loupe and discovered that it is not a gold trim ring, but plated plastic that has chipped off in places.

[Erik Dalton]

If they plate plastic in one place they might in others as well. Sailor is so secretive about their pens.

[Calabria]

How recent is the pen? Is it scratch off or turned in color? There was a recent notification on Sailor's homepage about plating problems on a recent batch of pens (http://www.sailor.co.jp/pdf/notice/20160823_discoloration-of-capring.pdf). Tt was about the rings changing color to a rainbow look due to the layer of plating beneath the top gold plated layer changing from nickel to silver. It would have affected pens from July 2015 - July 2016.

 

Otherwise I haven't had that degree of plating loss my Sailors, could be a manufacturing defect?

I have seen that on one of my recent 1911 pens.

 

Does that mean they plated gold over silver over brass? Or plastic? Do they offer a remedy? I can't read Japanese.

 

This is actually upsetting to me (the pen was quite expensive). I've stopped buying Sailors because of that; I also stopped going to a well-known b&m store because their reaction was very cavalier.

[zchen]

I have seen that on one of my recent 1911 pens.

 

Does that mean they plated gold over silver over brass? Or plastic? Do they offer a remedy? I can't read Japanese.

 

This is actually upsetting to me (the pen was quite expensive). I've stopped buying Sailors because of that; I also stopped going to a well-known b&m store because their reaction was very cavalier.

 

Sailor advise customers to contact them directly if they have this issue. My assumption is the trim ring is a metal part, based on my own older pen and Sailor themselves labeling it as metal, but they do not specify if it is brass (the kanji for brass is not used in this case).

[kenshiro]

It's surprising to me that you'd find plastic under the trim rings - I must echo zchen's experience that all my Sailor pens that have had plating come off have had metal underneath. Where did you purchase this pen?

[Leftytoo]

1) plastic is easily metal plated: common on automobile grills. 2) In the photos the underlying material looks like white plastic. I've owned 4 Sailors; I love their stiff and not too wet nibs. But I never considered them to have the quality and finish of, say, a Parker Duofold or an Aurora or a Platinum (amongst others). Buy them for their nibs & feeds and forget the rest. It is all a trade-off.

[Olya]

1) plastic is easily metal plated: common on automobile grills. 2) In the photos the underlying material looks like white plastic. I've owned 4 Sailors; I love their stiff and not too wet nibs. But I never considered them to have the quality and finish of, say, a Parker Duofold or an Aurora or a Platinum (amongst others). Buy them for their nibs & feeds and forget the rest. It is all a trade-off.

What is so special about Sailor feeds?

[JunkyardSam]

This greatly concerns and disappoints me. These pens are far too expensive to have plated plastic!

 

Now I'm worried about my Pilot Custom/Custom Heritage pens and Platinum 3776 Century pens... are the rings in those pens made with real metal?

 

The hidden "cost cutting hole" in my Pilot nibs was bad enough. If I find out I have plated plastic I might go crazy! Can anyone confirm for certain?

[stan]

You may find it interesting that high-end Waterman pens have trim of plated plastic and, of course, the gold plating chips off.

 

Brought to their attention...

1. They advise flushing and washing your pen after each ink fill.

2. Use only Waterman ink. The plating really is more sensitive to some inks. Must be related to acidity. Does anyone check ph values of ink? Chips with use of Waterman ink regardless.

3. They will not update their written instructions.

4. Should this problem occur on more than one pen, they will replace the damaged parts on up to two pens. They then ignore you.

 

More good reason to go with vintage.

[Algester]

This greatly concerns and disappoints me. These pens are far too expensive to have plated plastic!

 

Now I'm worried about my Pilot Custom/Custom Heritage pens and Platinum 3776 Century pens... are the rings in those pens made with real metal?

 

The hidden "cost cutting hole" in my Pilot nibs was bad enough. If I find out I have plated plastic I might go crazy! Can anyone confirm for certain?

Sailor is the more expensive of the brands though... <_< when compared to Pilot and Platinum's offerings so when you're going to compare them to Pilot or Platinum it's kind of asinine...?

look at the price jump between Heritage 92 and a Realo just for the case... I mean sure 21kt nib to a 14 kt nib

Edited October 13, 2016 by Algester

[JunkyardSam]

Stan: Thanks for that info! This really bothers me.

 

Algester: It's not "asinine" to compare, especially if the less expensive brands have real metal and the more expensive brand doesn't. It's all part of evaluating value for money.

 

For example - if my $80 Platinum 3776 Century pens have actual metal rings... and the more expensive Sailor pens have fake plated rings... then I'm going to stick with Platinum and avoid Sailor. Same with Pilot.

 

I personally prefer "actual metal rings" over plastic rings, so I'm going to prefer the brands which offer that (if any do.)

 

So that's what I'm trying to ask... Clearly Sailor uses plated plastic rings. Does Pilot? Does Platinum? I don't know why it's "asinine" to ask, and I don't know why it's "asinine" to compare these brands when they are all from the same country and all make similar pens.

 

Specifically - I'm still buying pens and I don't want to buy pens with plastic rings. I don't mind a plastic body - a plastic body is obviously plastic. But plating plastic is trying to pass something off as metal when it's not. And that just seems cheap to me. I don't want any part of it. :-(

Edited October 13, 2016 by JunkyardSam

[Calabria]

I agree with Junkyard Sam.

 

I have an older 1911 and noticed that the clip has a different design than the newer versions. The older one also seems to be heavier. I think cost-cutting has been going on for some time quietly behind the scenes, always in the hope the buyer won't notice (and even pay for price increases.)

 

I'm buying less pens as a result, and am going to be on the look-out for vintage/NOS.

[senzen]

I'm waiting for a Pro Gear to get to me, this doesn't bode well; I don't mind how they make their pens as long as they are built to last. My Waterman Man 100 does seem to have something weird going on at the edge of the barrel, right where it's usually covered in a little ink. Am I going to stop using Edelstein Mandarin with it? Hell no. Would I expect more quality from my most expensive pen? Absolutely. My other Waterman, a cheaper but still not cheap Laureat, became a gusher, every time I open the cap a big drop of ink flows out, so it's unusable. Consequence? When I started looking into a Carène just thinking of the potential problems made me give up. Hopefully this isn't the case with Sailor.

[JunkyardSam]

You know what's most terrible about the cost-cutting? The actual money saved per pen is probably an amount most of us would prefer to just pay rather than take a lesser quality pen.

 

I was saddened when I pulled out my Pilot nibs made in 2015 and discovered the hidden cost-cutting hole! (Though I was further confused when I saw the same size nibs made in 2016 withOUT the hole. So this may be something they did for a while and then stopped!)

 

As fountain pen enthusiasts we are buying unnecessarily expensive pens made of unnecessarily expensive materials... I'm pretty sure most of us would prefer price increases over quality cuts.

Edited October 14, 2016 by JunkyardSam

[Bluey]

Fountain pens are just luxuries now. There is no need for quality in the manufacturer's eyes, nor for most of the market (most fountain pen purchases are as gifts). The likes of us on this forum who would prefer that quality are a tiny minority to the manufacturers because the vast bulk of the fountain pen market couldn't care less.

So if you're Pilot or Platinum, you go by what the market and the main core buyers expect .

Edited October 14, 2016 by Bluey