Nakaya Soft Vs Firm Medium

[Betweenthelines]

Aloha folks,

 

It's that time again, my Nakaya is almost ready. It will be second, the first being a Naka-ai with a broad (0.6) stub that's spectacular.

 

I'm thinking for this next one to forgo a grind even though the opportunity to get another Mottishaw grind is tempting, since I can't think of one I need.. Already have the broad stub and a lovely medium Masuyama CI on my FC 02 that fulfill those needs.

 

So then it comes down to firm medium vs soft medium. The thing about soft nibs, I don't really like 'mushy' feeling and I don't like nibs that give inconsistent lines as it makes my writing look sloppy. Given that, how do you feel about the nakaya soft medium?

 

Thanks!

[Mastiff]

I've had Nakaya soft medium and medium. There is slight softness to it from my memory, but tested blindly, I wouldn't have noticed the difference. I think its more the matter of which one is more naily, rather than which one is softer. Why not get another Mottishaw custom nib? His stubs are beautiful-maybe you can try his medium or fine stub?! Congratulations on your new acquisition.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Mastiff

[nekomuffchu]

I have a Nakaya with a soft fine in rhodium, it doesn't flex too much but has good feel and control. Now I also have a Nakaya with a soft medium in gold and it's a lot more flexible and has less control to the point that it can make my writing inconsistent and a little messy; I've found if I keep the pressure light then it's ok. If I had to do it again I wouldn't have gotten the soft medium, I'll be sending it to Michael Masuyama to turn it into a stub or maybe into his Rounded Nose Cursive Italic.

[mirosc]

I on Nakaya I had a soft medium and returned it during the grace period. Now I've got a firm medium in it and I'm much happier than before. The soft medium just felt squishy and left me not comfortable.

[mongrelnomad]

Go for a Nakaya Soft Medium Cursive Italic. Slowly all my Nakayas have migrated to this nib. All the drama of a CI, but the softness gives it a forgiving nature that neutralises the italic's nastier tendencies...

 

Without the grind, the soft nibs are very very dull.

[Betweenthelines]

Thanks for the feedback so far, folks.

 

 

Go for a Nakaya Soft Medium Cursive Italic. Slowly all my Nakayas have migrated to this nib. All the drama of a CI, but the softness gives it a forgiving nature that neutralises the italic's nastier tendencies...

 

Without the grind, the soft nibs are very very dull.

 

You know, I keep coming back to this idea of a soft medium stub. I think I would go stub vs CI simply because I do a lot of writing on a pad of paper on my lap vs seated at a desk so having the perfect angle can be harder. The soft stub is a bit of a gamble, but has long been intriguing and I think I may walk on the wild side.

[mongrelnomad]

Thanks for the feedback so far, folks.

 

 

 

 

You know, I keep coming back to this idea of a soft medium stub. I think I would go stub vs CI simply because I do a lot of writing on a pad of paper on my lap vs seated at a desk so having the perfect angle can be harder. The soft stub is a bit of a gamble, but has long been intriguing and I think I may walk on the wild side.

 

You see that's where the softness comes in: with a soft CI, you get the extreme line variation, the scalpal-like precision, but without any catching, irrespective of angle or paper. There's a reason I now have four of them (and I usually have serious problems with italics, CIs, and often even stubs)...

Edited September 27, 2016 by mongrelnomad

[Betweenthelines]

 

You see that's where the softness comes in: with a soft CI, you get the extreme line variation, the scalpal-like precision, but without any catching, irrespective of angle or paper. There's a reason I now have four of them (and I usually have serious problems with italics, CIs, and often even stubs)...

Hmm... I was under the impression that the softness of nibs made stubs and CI's trickier to use because of the tine spread allowing for more catching not less.. Which makes sense to me when I think about the physics of the nib. Unless John purposely grinds them with a baby's bottom when they're soft? This was reinforced by what I was told by the folks at nibs.com

 

I am open to and intrigued by what you're saying it just goes against everything I've been told so far so I'm learning a lot here

[mongrelnomad]

The Nakaya 'soft' nibs aren't flexible in the traditional sense. Rather, they're untethered to the feed, so they 'spring'. The tines don't separate, or not much...

 

Hmm... I was under the impression that the softness of nibs made stubs and CI's trickier to use because of the tine spread allowing for more catching not less.. Which makes sense to me when I think about the physics of the nib. Unless John purposely grinds them with a baby's bottom when they're soft? This was reinforced by what I was told by the folks at nibs.com

I am open to and intrigued by what you're saying it just goes against everything I've been told so far so I'm learning a lot here

[Betweenthelines]

The Nakaya 'soft' nibs aren't flexible in the traditional sense. Rather, they're untethered to the feed, so they 'spring'. The tines don't separate, or not much...

 

Cool. I'm digging this idea. I typically prefer a little bit of a smoother ride than a CI but maybe I'll do a stub CI hybrid on a soft medium.. Certainly sounds a hell of a lot more interesting than a plain old firm or soft medium nib

[mongrelnomad]

I know it's scary, but trust me and get the full CI. The softness makes it as, if not more, accommodating than a standard stub. Worst case, John will swap it free of charge. But that'll never happen...

 

 

 

Cool. I'm digging this idea. I typically prefer a little bit of a smoother ride than a CI but maybe I'll do a stub CI hybrid on a soft medium.. Certainly sounds a hell of a lot more interesting than a plain old firm or soft medium nib

Edited September 27, 2016 by mongrelnomad

[jar]

Cool. I'm digging this idea. I typically prefer a little bit of a smoother ride than a CI but maybe I'll do a stub CI hybrid on a soft medium.. Certainly sounds a hell of a lot more interesting than a plain old firm or soft medium nib

Remember there is also this option:

http://www.fototime.com/0017DF9F78E4CAB/large.jpg

[mongrelnomad]

One other interesting point: what nib are you getting (as the fully plated 'soft' nibs are noticeably stiffer and less springy than their unplated and dual-tone brethren)?

Edited September 27, 2016 by mongrelnomad

[mongrelnomad]

Yes. Yes it is.

 

Remember there is also this option:

 

http://www.fototime.com/0017DF9F78E4CAB/large.jpg

[Betweenthelines]

I know it's scary, but trust me and get the full CI. The softness makes it as, if not more, accommodating than a standard stub. Worst case, John will swap it free of charge. But that'll never happen...

 

 

 

 

 

Eek! See I only have two experiences with CI's - one was a Richard Binder CI on a Vanishing Point - was a little too crisp for my liking - the second is the Masuyama CI on my FC Model 02, which I adore and doesn't really feel sharper than my typical stubs. So I'm not sure where John's CI lies on the spectrum of crispness.

 

Remember there is also this option:

http://www.fototime.com/0017DF9F78E4CAB/large.jpg

 

Dear god that is a sexy nib! But I'm afraid a music nib would be far too broad and impractical for my uses.

 

One other interesting point: what nib are you getting (as the fully plated 'soft' nibs are noticeably stiffer and less springy than their unplated and dual-tone brethren)?

 

I'm going with the standard gold nib as I feel it goes the best with the Kuro finish and it's also hard to justify the dual tone expense which would be the only other one I'd be interested in.

[mongrelnomad]

Here; I though I'd help you out a little.

 

Below are my Nakaya nibs. You'll see that all but two have the same nib: the aforementioned soft-CI-medium. Both the Naka-ai (7 o'clock) and the Portable (12 o'clock) began lives with other nibs. Forget about the 'flexible' nib on the aka-tamenuri (5 o'clock, as I'll explain later).

 

 

This is the soft-CI-Medium from below and from the front:

 

 

 

As you can see, the nib separates itself from the feed under pressure (this is the source of the flexility - in the nib itself, not in the tines). the tines themselves barely budge.

 

 

 

So what's the problem with the 'flexible' nib (the one with the cutouts)? Well, as the flexibility is in the separation from the feed, the feed itself tends to come into contact with the paper when writing. Not good...

 

Anyway, hope this helps you make your (right!) decision

Edited September 28, 2016 by mongrelnomad

[Uncial]

I may have misunderstood. or there may be confusion of terms, but I thought there were two types of nib: 'soft' and 'flexible'. The soft has a bit of bounce and some line variation. The flexible mimics a brush and the tines come away from the feed easily to create this effect, but essentially it is best for Kanji writing which also tends to have the user holding the pen at a more vertical angle. So, the term 'flexible' can be very misleading, as the tines will not spread and the line variation will be barely noticeable. "Soft' nibs will have a bit of line variation, but are semi-flexible at best; probably not even accurately described as such.

 

Am I just muddying the waters with more confusion?

[mongrelnomad]

I think you're just muddying the waters. The 'flexible', you are right, exhibits no line variation (by that I mean by virtue of spreading of the tines under pressure), but then again neither does the 'soft'. As I stated before, the difference really boils down to the separation from the feed under the same given pressure.

 

I believe John Mottishaw referred to the 'flexible' nibs as 'elastic' which is possibly a better description.

 

I may have misunderstood. or there may be confusion of terms, but I thought there were two types of nib: 'soft' and 'flexible'. The soft has a bit of bounce and some line variation. The flexible mimics a brush and the tines come away from the feed easily to create this effect, but essentially it is best for Kanji writing which also tends to have the user holding the pen at a more vertical angle. So, the term 'flexible' can be very misleading, as the tines will not spread and the line variation will be barely noticeable. "Soft' nibs will have a bit of line variation, but are semi-flexible at best; probably not even accurately described as such.

 

Am I just muddying the waters with more confusion?

Edited September 28, 2016 by mongrelnomad

[geoduc]

I had a Nakaya with a soft medium for a few years and tried to love it, but couldn't. I found the nib difficult to control and it made my writing look shaky. Finally I decided that either the nib or the pen had to go, so I sent it to John Mottishaw and had him replace the nib with a firm one custom ground to a 0.5mm CI. The pen gets a lot more use now.

 

YMMV, but the Nakaya firm nibs are much more to my liking.

[Betweenthelines]

Here; I though I'd help you out a little.

 

Below are my Nakaya nibs. You'll see that all but two have the same nib: the aforementioned soft-CI-medium. Both the Naka-ai (7 o'clock) and the Portable (12 o'clock) began lives with other nibs. Forget about the 'flexible' nib on the aka-tamenuri (5 o'clock, as I'll explain later).

 

 

This is the soft-CI-Medium from below and from the front:

 

 

 

As you can see, the nib separates itself from the feed under pressure (this is the source of the flexility - in the nib itself, not in the tines). the tines themselves barely budge.

 

 

 

So what's the problem with the 'flexible' nib (the one with the cutouts)? Well, as the flexibility is in the separation from the feed, the feed itself tends to come into contact with the paper when writing. Not good...

 

Anyway, hope this helps you make your (right!) decision

 

Cool! Thank you for the photos.. Consider me sold. I was playing around with the stub on my Naka-ai and realizing that I'm really liking the cursive italic a little more.. the stub is nice and smooth but the line variation isn't as pronounced and it isn't as interesting to use. You're right and that there is something nice about that scalpel precision of a CI. So your standard cursive italics from John are not super sharp? I am still considering going with a 'forgiving' CI..