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Steel Vs 14K Gold Vs 18K Gold - Does It Matter?

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#21 Tootles

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 07:06

I think the Sheaffer letter pretty much summed it up actually.



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#22 praxim

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 07:10

wow, a nib that rusted?  Was it not stainless?  What sort of ink did you use?

 

Waterman cartridge. This is the Expert II about which I confessed early on here, that I had left it inked with a cartridge for over six years in a drawer. Here is a photo of it.

 

Expert corrosion  081.jpg

 

Looking closely, they do appear to be pitted spots and not dried crud on the surface.

 

It still writes well :)


Anyone owning three or more working pens is in no position to disparage choices by others.

#23 Mastiff

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 09:50

It would only matter if they put a steel nib on an expensive pen.



#24 kernando

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 11:21

Just get a Pilot Elite from the '70s or so, whichever one you like that you come across at a good price. It may cost half as much as the remake.


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#25 pajaro

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 16:30

 

Waterman cartridge. This is the Expert II about which I confessed early on here, that I had left it inked with a cartridge for over six years in a drawer. Here is a photo of it.

 

attachicon.gifExpert corrosion 081.jpg

 

Looking closely, they do appear to be pitted spots and not dried crud on the surface.

 

It still writes well :)

 

Waterman seems to have made a lot of gold plated nibs that corroded.  I have had Phileas and Laureat I nibs badly corroded. 


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#26 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 18:49

Ingeneer, I will read your blog. I did read what ever it was you had posted links to before. I read a some/all of your articles in something else that you posted here. This 'other?' blog seems to be different or the links you posted where more narrowly placed, than a full blog.

 

It was very interesting. Especially interesting to me as a writer....not that I have plans to have an engineer invade my planned books....but the future ....hum, there is a character in my next book, that can use a bit of your explanation of engineer work....ah ha! Even if I'd had him finagling with the birth of the baby home computers. The thought pattern was of interest. (In the military....a clip board, takes the place of your rolled up blueprints under the arm. :rolleyes: )

There were a few commentaries to your posts that were a tad more detailed than I am use too.

 

I do have the time. I do have the curiosity.

 

One of my golden nails was an 18 K Lamy Persona. An OB that had no line variation but was made for left eye dominate who cant their pens naturally; (it is now a CI).. My wife is such. I am right eye dominate, so cant a nib if I wish, not because I must.

I had a '50's Lamy OM....a nail. I said, nail or regular flex obliques do not give the line variation a semi or maxi-semi-flex can give with a stubbish nib. Yes, I do want everyone....eventually to have a semi-flex pen, and also, 'true' regular flex, in sometimes a regular flex gives better shading. I'm into shading inks, so my rants are slanted in that direction. I'm also interested in line variation.....now some 15 1/2 seconds into your blog and short stiff steel nibs....Yep...sounds like a Lamy nib. :)

 

Ah Ha....finally the exact gold and alloy of modern 14 K nib****...and the Rockwell hardness of the stainless steel still used in nibs....1913 & 1935 for nib stainless steel certainly was a surprise.

 

****is that the same for the more flexible nibs before 1965????

 

When I first came here to FPN I copied some 3-4 megs of what folks said..... :unsure: too much to go back and review often. :(  Thankfully there is no tests to take in fountain pen mania. Richard Binder's site is great, and your looks very interesting. It's 'on' right now, so I can flick to it right after this.

 

Nibs can be :yikes: :eureka: :headsmack: :thumbup: :notworthy1: :angry:  :rolleyes:.......hopefully not just one nib. :unsure:

 

I've really nothing against gold nibs....it's just some steel nibs write as good, (I've seen some of the info from Ingeneer before but not all in one lump. I bought pens instead of the book 'Nib Geometry' :( ) and are much cheaper or when used, slightly cheaper....sometimes used gold nibbed pens are economical also.. I did miss a number of pen models in I was a gold snob.  :headsmack:

To me a nails a nail, be it gold or steel....Be it my Lamy Persona or a Lamy Safari. Both lay ink and not much else. I like the else.

 

Later I found out how good Osmia/O-F-C (Degussa) steel nibs are to write with. And I could have gotten more of them, had I known how good their steel nibs were. I have Osmia gold and steel nibs in both semi&maxi that are equally good. Some gold nibs are as good as some steel nibs. Not all gold nibs are lively, nor are all steel nibs. I like a bit of life in the nib.

Often Osmia was just over budget....and those with steel nibs lay at budget's edge....but I was a gold snob. :( Sigh....the price of pens keeps climbing....Osmia pens I could have gotten for my budget max of 50 Euro, four-five years ago are going for 90 or more; and that in steel.

 

Yes, I have in I buy 'cheaper' old pens found some with corroded steel nibs from the time when inks were more acidic than now.....And....Folks did not know to clean their pens.....and when a pen sat for a couple or even three generations in the back of a drawer, an occasional corroded nib shows up. More often the steel nibs just fine.... :) perhaps the pen was loaded with the great to clean out of old pens Pelikan Royal Blue....and not an IG BB. :rolleyes:

 

After a while you end up with spare nibs; so corroded nibs can be replaced with nibs equal to the nibs that were originally on the pen. If it's a lower tier pen or you have a spare better nib....if it's a good nib that writes well, it doesn't really matter on lower price pens if the nib is not the makers; as long as it's a good enough nib.

 

I was so ignorant to think only brand name pen's nibs were any good; turning my nose up at old Bock or Degussa nibs (Thankfully I didn't throw those Bock or Degussa 'no name' nibs out :wacko: )....the only Rupp nib I have is gold. Those were three of the bigger independent nib makers in Heidelberg once the pen capitol of Germany. Bock still makes nibs for many name brands.

 

I will read with interest what you say about gold nibs, vs steel. Given enough facts I have been known to change my mind. Why I can remember doing that 7-8   4-5  times and in this century!!! :o

 

 

 

I do appreciate your information that each company makes it's inks for it's own nibs....and it matters. However, in the Golden Age of Inks that we now live in.

I've been made to wonder if a certain Pelikan ink that wasn't up to snuff was because I was using another brand of pen....and my Lamy inks get told to play more in Lamy pens.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 27 September 2016 - 19:32.

Everyone says poor Mozart dead at only 36. None say poor Mendelson, dead at only 38. His family only allowed him to start at 20, but before, musicians use to come to the Mendelson garden to steal the music of Mendelson and his sister. A good artist also, can still buy prints of his famous Scottish drawings in Scotland.

 

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

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#27 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 06:35

 

Waterman cartridge. This is the Expert II about which I confessed early on here, that I had left it inked with a cartridge for over six years in a drawer. Here is a photo of it.

 

attachicon.gifExpert corrosion 081.jpg

 

Looking closely, they do appear to be pitted spots and not dried crud on the surface.

 

It still writes well :)

Hm... interesting!  It seems that the pitting happens only on the "gold" plated sections... Perhaps, not all that looks golden is gold?  :wacko:

 

A little bit of erosion would not noticeably change the writing characteristics. :)

 

I noticed that the nib has no "breather-hole"?


with kindness...

 

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#28 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 06:57

 

Waterman seems to have made a lot of gold plated nibs that corroded.  I have had Phileas and Laureat I nibs badly corroded. 

... as I said, not all that looks golden is gold... :o

 

love your comment on ...not to hurry.  Thanks  :)


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#29 max dog

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 07:30

Gold nib pens are usually more expensive. That's the gist of it.

True. Or another way to look at it is, if its an expensive pen, it better come with a gold nib. That's how most pen makers market their pens. If brand x comes with steel nib, and brand y comes in gold nib and both cost the same and perform the same, brand y will have the advantage selling.

#30 praxim

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 08:26

I noticed that the nib has no "breather-hole"?


It is a gold plated steel nib. There is a breather hole in the section, fairly close to the front end.
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#31 Mangrove Jack

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 19:50

One of my smoothest nibs is on my Cross Solo - a much used and preferred every day carry pen. The nib is gold plated steel. I prefer it to most of my solid gold nibs.

#32 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 09:01

It is a gold plated steel nib. There is a breather hole in the section, fairly close to the front end.

That would make it quite a stiff nib? 

 

A nail according to Bo Bo....  :D

 

Humbly, I would like to turn your attention to an idea I posted in the forum Fountain Pen Magic in post #50… here is the link  :rolleyes:


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#33 Old Salt

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 10:16

Quality matters.  The reputation of the maker means far more to me than the material itself.


I agree with Jar. If it's a good quality nib, and you like writing with it. There's nothing else to talk about.
I have some steel nibs that I like better than my gold ones. It all depends on what you like.
Most steel nibs will be stiff good writers with little flex, to get more spring and line variation is the only reason to go to gold. The difference in price between top quality steel nib, and gold is huge, and I don't think you get all that much better a writer.
I just got an Edison collier with a medium steel nib. It wrote smooth as butta right out of the box. Love that pen.

#34 Kaweco

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 13:28

................

I noticed that the nib has no "breather-hole"?

Hello

Why don`t you accept the word breather hole? The back-donation of air into the ink reservoir is not a constant streaming. The removal of the air bubbles which is directly proportional to the surface tension of the ink interrupts the ink flow frequently which is wellknown as "swallow". But you may invent another word for this periodic input of air...

Kind regards, Thomas



#35 praxim

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 21:42

I hope there will not be a long discussion about whether certain words should be permitted to appear in quotation marks :rolleyes:

 

I took peningneer's comment as relating to likely effect on stiffness of the nib on my Waterman, rather than being a subtle dispute about the manner in which a pen sucks. :)


Anyone owning three or more working pens is in no position to disparage choices by others.

#36 milkb0at

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 22:20

Why don`t you accept the word breather hole?

 

Probably due to the fact that the "breather hole" (the hole in the nib at the end of the slit) doesn't have anything to do with air transfer (the feed does that), so it's misnamed.



#37 Kaweco

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 12:33

I hope there will not be a long discussion about whether certain words should be permitted to appear in quotation marks :rolleyes:

 

I took peningneer's comment as relating to likely effect on stiffness of the nib on my Waterman, rather than being a subtle dispute about the manner in which a pen sucks. :)

Sorry, praxim, you are right.

I think the middle slit is a bit too short. It looks like they slaughtered the convenience of a smooth and flexible nib for the area of product placement which the nib-imprints are in need. Whereever the nib had been made, I think France is not sure. Mutschler in Heidelberg/ Germany made nibs for Waterman but after Mutschler`s bancrupty the machines had been sold to anywhere. Mutschler used thin high grade V4A and V4A Supra steel, the followers possibly not. You can test it: V4A steel is not magnetic and does not become rusty. Other steels with more thickness and an uncomfortable nib geometry will not be flexible. Although I must confess: Even V4A nibs made during the 40th got little holes near the section and the feed when fps hade been made of hardrubber AND ferrogallic ink had been used. But this pen is quite new and not made of HR.

Kind Regards

Thomas


Edited by Kaweco, 03 October 2016 - 12:35.


#38 Ron Z

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 14:40

I way to keep a crack from spreading, or to keep the material from cracking beyond a slit is to drill a hole at the end of the crack or split.

 

A significant purpose of the hole in the nib is to relieve or if you will, interrupt the stress at the slit so that the nib does not crack over time.  It is not uncommon to see a vintage nib (Parker in particular it seems) where the slitting wheel went too far and the underside of the nib is nicked on the far side of the hole, and the nib starting to crack or having cracked over and beyond that nick in the metal. 


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#39 praxim

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 23:00

Thank you for that wealth of information, Thomas. I shall head for a small magnet in the shed just as soon as the winds stop blowing at 70 k :)


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#40 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 13:29

You would not believe how relieved I am that the "breather-hole" issue has been resolved.  Had been out of action for two days.

 

Milkb0at and Ron Z are quite correct.  Just in case anyone wants to read up on this on my blog?... go to Nippy Nibs.

 

About magnetic and non-magnetic stainless steel, I found an excellent article... click here

 

...and keep on smiling!


with kindness...

 

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