Super 21 Nib Size

[woleizihan]

I recently bought a Super 21 which writes surprisingly thin lines. I initially thought it was a flow issue but it writes quite smoothly and does not skip/dry so I start to think the pen may just have a small sized nib. I've never seen such fine nib on a Parker (51,21,vac...). It's even noticeablly finer than a Japanese F (both Pilot c74 and vpen) and a western EF (Pelikan m400 I used to have). Does anyone know if there's a problem with this pen (which I think is unlikely, because it performs very well), or it's a replacement nib (which I also think is not very likely because super 21 may not worth the trouble), or Parker actually makes such fine nibs? Thanks (and sorry for the terrible handwriting ).

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzUe5uyHFFyUOXN0dnJqdTR3WmM/view?usp=sharing

[georgeb]

I have one that writes just like that. Nothing wrong as far as I know.

[mitto]

Try to separate the tines of the nib a bit. Seems these are too tight.

[Joane]

Don't know if it's the case but Parker had a nib called the Needle Point, which was even finer than the Extra-fine.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Joane

[woleizihan]

Don't know if it's the case but Parker had a nib called the Needle Point, which was even finer than the Extra-fine.

I just saw a picture from a previous post.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/196187-parker-51-nib-widths-compared-to-other-brands/

 

It's for 51 but 51 special and super 21 have essentially the same nib so I think it probably also applies to super 21. And the nib is finer than the xf flighter in the same post so I guess it's probably either accountant or needle point if it has original Parker nib. Sounds interesting and worth taking apart.

[Joane]

Taking apart?

[woleizihan]

Taking apart?

Hmmmm. I was just thinking about disassembling it to check if it's original nib/ clean the feed thoroughly.

[pajaro]

Hmmmm. I was just thinking about disassembling it to check if it's original nib/ clean the feed thoroughly.

 

How would you tell if it's the original nib, as long as it were Parker? I don't think you would tell. Parker 21 shells (hoods) are not as robust as Parker 51 hoods.

[woleizihan]

 

How would you tell if it's the original nib, as long as it were Parker? I don't think you would tell. Parker 21 shells (hoods) are not as robust as Parker 51 hoods.

Essentially yes. As long as it's Parker, then it's either Parker accountant or needle point. That's what I mean by "original". I don't see any difference between the same nib being swapped in or just sitting there from the beginning. And this is a super 21 so it's more or less just like 51 special. I'm not worrying about the robustness too much.

[Jerome Tarshis]

Essentially yes. As long as it's Parker, then it's either Parker accountant or needle point. That's what I mean by "original". I don't see any difference between the same nib being swapped in or just sitting there from the beginning. And this is a super 21 so it's more or less just like 51 special. I'm not worrying about the robustness too much.

 

Don't worry about robustness if you don't want to. It's your pen. It's easy to replace if you do any damage. But it is *not* more or less like a 51 Special in its plastic. Nib, yes. Plastic, no.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Jerome Tarshis

[mitto]

Don't worry about robustness if you don't want to. It's your pen. It's easy to replace if you do any damage. But it is *not* more or less like a 51 Special in its plastic. Nib, yes. Plastic, no.

Yes, as pajaro says, the nib is the same. Plastic is not.

[woleizihan]

 

Don't worry about robustness if you don't want to. It's your pen. It's easy to replace if you do any damage. But it is *not* more or less like a 51 Special in its plastic. Nib, yes. Plastic, no.

Yeah. I also don't think it's the "same" plastic considering the cost difference, it does not even make sense. I'm just willing to trust the robustness like 51 special. I've never seen a super 21 with cracked hood but have seen many 21 with cracked hood. I don't know if that's just a particular case for me.

[mitto]

I have seen dozens of Super 21s with cracked hoods as well cracked barrels.

Edited September 23, 2016 by mitto

[pajaro]

I am curious to know which nib sizes were made in Octanium. Further, which of those were put into Parker Super 21s?

 

It would be cute to have a Super 21 with a broad stub or an italic in octanium. I feel dubious that Parker made those sizes.

Edited September 23, 2016 by pajaro

[Ernst Bitterman]

I am curious to know which nib sizes were made in Octanium. Further, which of those were put into Parker Super 21s?

 

It would be cute to have a Super 21 with a broad stub or an italic in octanium. I feel dubious that Parker made those sizes.

 

I've got an almost answer-- the image below is from 1953, so it's a pre-Super version of the 21. However, even when the Super appeared, it was a low-end model, and the 51 Special was a low-end version, so it's likely that they didn't have any more variations of point than this one shows:

 

 

The 51 itself only had two more gauges of point, "Stub" and "Medium Oblique". If you find a BBB italic, it's likely a modern re-tip job.

[FarmBoy]

All nib sizes could be had in gold and Octanium that are listed in the nib chart. I have not seen an Arabic nib in Octanium and I have not seen a Left Oblique in Octanium but I see no reason for them not to exist.

I also know of no one retipping Octanium nibs. If someone is, I have an obscene quantity of that lacking tipping.

[pajaro]

Could be had, but were they sold? I guess an owner would have to acknowledge it. The only ones I have ever seen are extra fine, fine and medium, but I have never actively looked for others.

[ac12]

 

Hmmmm. I was just thinking about disassembling it to check if it's original nib/ clean the feed thoroughly.

 

Don't do it.

You risk damaging the pen by disassembling it. It isn't a 51.

 

Clean by soaking and cycling the water in the pen. It may take a while to clean it out, but it is safer than attempting to disassemble the pen. And it can't take longer than the 3 weeks it took me to clean a 51 of red ink, soaking and cycling water through the pen. That is unless your 21 has dried RED ink.

[woleizihan]

 

Don't do it.

You risk damaging the pen by disassembling it. It isn't a 51.

 

Clean by soaking and cycling the water in the pen. It may take a while to clean it out, but it is safer than attempting to disassemble the pen. And it can't take longer than the 3 weeks it took me to clean a 51 of red ink, soaking and cycling water through the pen. That is unless your 21 has dried RED ink.

I already did that and the water came out almost clean. And I was just saying. I don't think the pen has any problem after using it for a whole day. It just has a tiny nib. Just curious what's special about that red ink?

[Erik Dalton]

Just enjoy it for what it is. Messing with the hood is asking for trouble. When these pens write well they are a dream. I have fallen in love with a couple p21's only to have my heart broken by a cracked hood or body.

You can try spreading the tines apart with some brass shims to get a little wetter and thicker ink line, but don't do anymore than that.

P21's are cheap. Keep this one as an extra fine, and pick up another with a medium nib if you must. messing with the hood of a perfectly good P21 is courting disaster. I've Been there and done that. It didn't work out well.