Vintage Or New?

[fplover01]

In 40 modern Pelikans, I had issues only with one of them. That is about 2,5%. I guess I am lucky too...

 

I wont buy in the "vintage is better" hype. Yes todays pens are different to reflect a different audience with different writing habits. If all someone is interested in is a flexible nib, then vintage is the way to go. Same if we are talking about an O nib. With Pelikans decision to remove these off the regular line, only some dealers who somehow have stocks are profiting, to charge extra for the pleasure of having one. In both those cases, a vintage pen is the logical option, which however should always include the costs of bringing this pen in a writing condition (and keeping it that way).

 

If none of these come into play, then a modern pen is an excellent choice. I understand vintage and flexible nib is a "holly cow" for some people, but it is just unfair to project a personal perception/preference into a general truth, that all of them are of lesser quality and bad writers. I use exclusively modern Pelikans and i have always been very happy with them, in fact I do not touch a ballpoint at all... And I never had them tuned by anyone, all of them have stock nibs, out of the box.

[Bluey]

 

I wont buy in the "vintage is better" hype. Yes todays pens are different to reflect a different audience with different writing habits. If all someone is interested in is a flexible nib, then vintage is the way to go. Same if we are talking about an O nib. With Pelikans decision to remove these off the regular line, only some dealers who somehow have stocks are profiting, to charge extra for the pleasure of having one. In both those cases, a vintage pen is the logical option, which however should always include the costs of bringing this pen in a writing condition (and keeping it that way).

 

If none of these come into play, then a modern pen is an excellent choice. I understand vintage and flexible nib is a "holly cow" for some people, but it is just unfair to project a personal perception/preference into a general truth, that all of them are of lesser quality and bad writers. I use exclusively modern Pelikans and i have always been very happy with them, in fact I do not touch a ballpoint at all... And I never had them tuned by anyone, all of them have stock nibs, out of the box.

Nor me, in fact I only ever buy modern pens because I wouldn't want to invest in something whose true condition I don't know about. I've tried 2 vintage Pelikans and the nib shattered underneath my hand within minutes for the first one. The 2nd one wrote nicely enough.

 

But in Pelikan's case it's justified because their modern ones are not up to scratch (where there's smoke there's fire). It's a case of their vintage pens being not as bad rather than better.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Bluey

[white_lotus]

Honestly there's only a limited number of vintage pens available in the world. And as many have observed, they may not have been maintained or well kept. A 50 or 70 year old pen is still a 50 to 70 year old pen unless it's been restored, and even then you never know how well it was really done. By some random person on eBay?

 

I'm not trying to bash vintage pens here, just pointing out that there are definite issues that can snare the unwary. I understand there are on very serious vintage Pelikan collectors here. Please don't think I'm trying to knock them or their collections. They've developed special skills in knowing the pens themselves, how to spot flaws, so many things.

 

I think your comments are quite spacious as you say you've only bought modern pens, and yet you hype vintage Pelikans as "better" because of what you've heard on the internet somewhere.

 

I have a number of modern Pelikan pens, and all of them have written flawlessly out of the box. I don't think that that is luck.

[Lam1]

Certainly unhappy customers are much more vocal than happy ones...

And from my readings around here and my own experience, beginners to FPs (and I'm not referring to anybody here, to be clear) tend to have a higher degree of complaints. When I was in the beginning of my accumulation journey I complained about pelikan nibs, only to (soon) later realize that in some (actually most) cases I had misaligned the nib myself. I've seen many similar complaints around.

 

So, to add to the "anecdotal" data, out of 39 new Pelikan fountain pens at our home, there were 2 misaligned nibs (no other problems). In one the vendor likely changed the nib (box marked M and nib received was F) and the other was actually Chartpak that put a badly misaligned EF in place of a perfect F, within the grace period to exchange nibs. Notice that both nibs were handled after leaving the production line and, therefore, the problem cannot be attributed to QC with any degree of certainty. Even if one attributes that to QC, the ratio is 2/39 of problems. In both cases I aligned them myself and the pens write wonderfully.

 

Even more telling is that after I bought a loupe and started checking the pens on arrival and before inking them I had ZERO problems in 29 pens. All pens arrived perfect and write wonderfully. If the problems were so widespread as some want us to believe, the odds of this happening would be ridiculously small.

 

There is a reason Pelikan has such a large following, and it doesn't seem to be due to "poor quality". Much to the contrary.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Lam1

[Bluey]

There is a reason Pelikan has such a large following, and it doesn't seem to be due to "poor quality". Much to the contrary.

So does Justin Beiber. I think you're confusing being popular and being good.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Bluey

[white_lotus]

I see you made a post in July of this year where you purchased an M600 and had a problem with it skipping. I'm presuming you had flushed the pen with water before first use to remove any manufacturing residues which can negatively impact writing. I didn't follow the thread further to determine if you might have resolved the issue but at least in that post your feelings were that this would be your first and last Pelikan.

 

So it appears that your experience understandably has colored your opinion, but a data point of one is still a data point of one, and it's difficult to realistically generalize about something from that perspective. It's unfortunate that you weren't able to resolve the nib to your satisfaction, as most dealers would seem to be interested in having happy customers. Especially since swapping a nib on a Pelikan is so easy. It's something that could have happened at the shop where you purchased your pen. Perhaps if you discussed the issue with them, even that this late date, it could be resolved.

[Bluey]

I see you made a post in July of this year where you purchased an M600 and had a problem with it skipping. I'm presuming you had flushed the pen with water before first use to remove any manufacturing residues which can negatively impact writing. I didn't follow the thread further to determine if you might have resolved the issue but at least in that post your feelings were that this would be your first and last Pelikan.

 

So it appears that your experience understandably has colored your opinion, but a data point of one is still a data point of one, and it's difficult to realistically generalize about something from that perspective. It's unfortunate that you weren't able to resolve the nib to your satisfaction, as most dealers would seem to be interested in having happy customers. Especially since swapping a nib on a Pelikan is so easy. It's something that could have happened at the shop where you purchased your pen. Perhaps if you discussed the issue with them, even that this late date, it could be resolved.

Yes, indeedy - I always flush every pen out with water and a dash of washingup liquid as a matter of principle. I don't think resolving the issue is something to be done now, and I decided to keep it in the end because

1) I didn't want the hassle of sending it back to Amazon,

2) because of Pelikan forever increasing their prices there's a possibility that I could sell it on without much loss sometime in the future,

3) as I bought it at near enough the same time as my Lamy 2000 in medium, I've now decided that I prefer medium and broad nibs (I used to believe that I preferred fine and extra fine), at least for journalling anyway

4) the nib has a stubbish quality which I've grown to like when journalling. The nib still has a babys bottom, so I tend to have to press on the nib like I would a ballpoint otherwise it doesn't make proper contact with the paper.

 

It would be my first and last Pelikan no matter whatever the quality is. All Pelikans are exactly the same but with a change of colour, so I only need one. I don't see the point in buying multiple versions of pens just to have a different colour because it adds no value.

 

No it hasn't coloured my opinion at all. I knew of all the issues with Pelikan even before I bought it, but getting the stripey Souveran was always going to be an unscratched itch if I didn't buy one, so I got one while it was cheap.

Thanks for your suggestions though. Appreciated.

[sargetalon]

I'm going by someone who tests Pelikans routinely.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/162154-sending-a-new-pen-in-for-work-nib-replacementadjustmentflow-issuesetc-yeah-or-nay/

"In my job, I tune many Pelikan nibs every week. I would say only about 40% of them have no nib issues right out of the box!"

 

If you've had no issues with Pelikan nibs 90% of the time, then count yourself an extremely lucky man .

 

 

I'm unclear as to why my experience with 67 pens makes me lucky and your experience with 1 pen is a sign of rampant poor quality on the part of Pelikan. The provided reference is appreciated but hardly scientific. I'm not apologizing for Pelikan. They, like every other company out there, have less than 100% quality control and I too have been bitten by a bad nib out of the box. If you spend that type of money, you should expect the pen to just work and that is not always the case. There is certainly room for improvement on Pelikan's part. I sympathize with anyone who has had issues because it's a frustration and likely an added expense to an already expensive purchase. I'm sorry that you have had issues but hardly think your experience is a fair representation of Pelikan quality.

[Monbla]

If I was getting my first Pelikan, I would look at the pens made prior to 1979. After 1980 they began to go all blingy all the gold rings and bi-color 18k nails for nibs. The 400's made in the mid to late '50s have fantasticlly flexible 14k nibs. Don't get me wrong some folks like the smooth nails they make today and the pens themselves are still made as well as the older ones. this is just my personal opinion after using Pelikans for 40+ years.

[Lam1]

If I was getting my first Pelikan, I would look at the pens made prior to 1979. After 1980 they began to go all blingy all the gold rings and bi-color 18k nails for nibs. The 400's made in the mid to late '50s have fantasticlly flexible 14k nibs. Don't get me wrong some folks like the smooth nails they make today and the pens themselves are still made as well as the older ones. this is just my personal opinion after using Pelikans for 40+ years.

 

And some like blingy too. My wife bought a 1990's M400 Brown Tortoise for her, but didn't like the nib and the absence of bling (she could live with the nib, but not without the bling ). A couple of months later, when she heard the rumor of the new Brown Tortoise she gave her "old" one to me. I cannot begin to describe how "sad" I was to get a 1990's M400 Brown Tortoise .

 

I like both, and enjoy my smooth modern ones very much!

Edited October 2, 2016 by Lam1

[Bo Bo Olson]

I have a number (9) of vintage '50-65 Pelikans, and have had no problem with the older plastic gaskets. A couple of them are '40's pens.

The newer plastic gaskets of 1955 and later is better.

 

I do have other plastic and corked pens of that era, a few that did have some small problem with the older plastic gaskets or cork that sat a couple of generations in the back of a desk.

One can buy restored pens from then...or have them restored yourself. With the cost of the vintage pen and restoration being less than a new 400......or you could buy just a vintage nib.

100n, Ibis, 2x 140, 2x 400, 400n, 400nn, & 500, and no problems.

 

As someone said, there are folks that love modern 'butter smooth' nails and semi-nails, rather than good and smooth nibs (the level under butter smooth, better for slick papers than butter smooth) with character.

 

As I see it and I was ham fisted until I got my 140 semi-flex.....there are many quite happy with the modern nib made for ham fisted ball point barbarians who hold their pen like a ball point. = fat, stiffer semi-nail or nail blobby characterless nibs; that one can get stubbed, or made CI if one wants any line variation.

Of course the Pelikan '50-65 nibs are already stubbed....and with that bit of flex....defiantly put a bit of flair into anyone's writing.

 

It only took me 3 months of use with my 140, my first semi-flex to lighten my hand from ham fisted to slightly ham fisted; enough to safely use the next step, a maxi-semi-flex 400. That too took me a few months to lighten my hand even more.

 

Choice of a nib might well have to do with what type of ink one prefers, vivid monotone supersaturated inks, or two toned shading inks. I prefer shading inks over boring vivid inks.

Some times depending on ink and paper semi-flex shades well, with other inks and papers 'true' regular flex of the pre'98 M400 or 120 or 150/200 do better. Those have a cleaner line, in they are not blobby nibbed. They are also 1/2 a width narrower than fat modern nibs.

 

In I was not striving for fancy, I never noticed any speed of writing difference between stiff or semi-flex nibs.