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Later Dj 51 With Aluminum Jewels?


PenBuyer1796

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Over the last year I have come across several regular Double Jewel 51s with first year blind caps and aluminum jewels. Two found in the wild while the other two were purchased in collections. Are there any facts on if this was factory addition or if it was a swap done sometime during the life of the pen?

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I am not sure what your question is but the aluminium jewel was common on first year 51s.

 

I guess you want to spent some time reading here:

http://parker51.com/index.php/51s/51-versions/

 

Thank you for your help. I know what a proper first year Parker 51 should consist of, and I have found several with later barrels which should not be correct. Not sure if Parker had left over jewels, or if these parts have somehow have been put together over the years.

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I do not understand what you are asking.

What do you mean by regular Double Jewel and later barrels?

 

In general 1941, aka first year, pens have an imprint on the blind cap and a barrel with no imprint. I think 'later barrels' must mean barrels with an imprint and non-1941 date code and 'regular' DJ pens must mean produced in 1942 or later.

 

As far as jewels a first year pen could have an aluminum jewel or a celluloid jewel, in some rare cases it might even have a silver jewel. A metal jewel alone does not make a first year 51.

 

FB

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

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A metal jewel alone does not make a first year 51.

 

FB

 

So an aluminium jewel can be found on a later (> 1942) Parker 51 DJ too.

 

What complicates things is that there are non-original 'fantasy' aluminium jewels for sale and these obviously end up on a DJ pen. Some pen sellers then forget to mention that these jewels are replacements. You see such pens regularly appearing on the auction sites.

 

So if the aluminium jewel on the blind cap or cap looks shiny and new, I would be suspicious that it might be a recent replacement.

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I do not understand what you are asking.

What do you mean by regular Double Jewel and later barrels?

 

In general 1941, aka first year, pens have an imprint on the blind cap and a barrel with no imprint. I think 'later barrels' must mean barrels with an imprint and non-1941 date code and 'regular' DJ pens must mean produced in 1942 or later.

 

As far as jewels a first year pen could have an aluminum jewel or a celluloid jewel, in some rare cases it might even have a silver jewel. A metal jewel alone does not make a first year 51.

 

FB

 

Regular DJ's as in after 1941, with date code under the clutch ring, gold filled clutch ring, non-first year caps. A first year pen can also have a grey pearlescent jewel on the cap, but not on the blindcap. What I have found are 51 DJ's with non-first year caps, non-first year barrels, but first year blindcaps. I just find it strange that it has happened multiple times and is why I am questioning it.

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What is the date code on the barrels in question.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

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1944 and 1947. Another had no date code, but the color was lighter on the blindcap compared to the barrel and the nib was not first year.

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1944 and 1947. Another had no date code, but the color was lighter on the blindcap compared to the barrel and the nib was not first year.

Sounds like Joss' explanation may be the most plausible. I know at one point several years ago Ariel had them listed in multiples on eBay and currently Michelle has some listed as BC jewels and Clip jewels at Penpartsstore. When a pen turns up in the wild, sellers want to fill the hole and sell them as a complete pen (more $$).

"Not a Hooker Hooker, but rather a left-handed overwriter."

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Are the blind caps imprinted as would be normal for a 1941 pen?

 

Color mismatch between hood barrel and blind cap are not unusual.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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Are the blind caps imprinted as would be normal for a 1941 pen?

 

Color mismatch between hood barrel and blind cap are not unusual.

 

Yes, and lets get out of the way that these are original sterling or aluminum jewels. Non-repros. The color on the blindcap is similar to a midnight blue vs the correct cedar blue that it should be.

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Pictures might help.

 

It sounds to me like someone put imprinted blind caps on later pen barrels.

 

Not long ago a number of made up 1st year pens were sold on eBay. It happens.

 

Don't get to particular about colors, you need to look at a few hundred examples to see the range of what to expect. There is an entire article that could be written about the subject.

Edited by FarmBoy

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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Sorry PenBuyer1796,

 

I misunderstood the situation. Kudos FB! Todd rides again!!! ;)

"Not a Hooker Hooker, but rather a left-handed overwriter."

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Pictures might help.

 

It sounds to me like someone put imprinted blind caps on later pen barrels.

 

Not long ago a number of made up 1st year pens were sold on eBay. It happens.

 

Don't get to particular about colors, you need to look at a few hundred examples to see the range of what to expect. There is an entire article that could be written about the subject.

 

Thank you, yes those are usually sanded down (sadly like many) to have a better fit. The ones I've come across were usually always off because the 'gap' of material from the barrel to the blindcap. Just for reassurance wanted to ask the question, have since parted out the pens and made them proper SJ pens.

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Sorry PenBuyer1796,

 

I misunderstood the situation. Kudos FB! Todd rides again!!! ;)

 

He's a good guy, would love to see his first year collection :D Plastic fillers are also too common on these, I like the proper Vacumatic Speedline fillers that came in the first years. Wonder if he's come across the Beige, Yellowstone or Nassau first year Vac's yet...

Edited by PenBuyer1796
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Yes, and lets get out of the way that these are original sterling or aluminum jewels. Non-repros.

 

Maybe you had to specify that in your initial question. So it is an original blind cap with original metal jewel and an imprint which might be fake. Or not.

 

Thank you, yes those are usually sanded down (sadly like many) to have a better fit. The ones I've come across were usually always off because the 'gap' of material from the barrel to the blindcap.

 

Do you suggest that the color shift is due to sanding down the plastic?

 

He's a good guy, would love to see his first year collection :D Plastic fillers are also too common on these, I like the proper Vacumatic lock down fillers that came in the first years.

 

I would love to see a lockdown filler on a Parker 51.

Edited by joss
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Maybe you had to specify that in your initial question. So it is an original blind cap with original metal jewel and an imprint which might be fake. Or not.

 

 

Do you suggest that the color shift is due to sanding down the plastic?

 

 

I would love to see a lockdown filler on a Parker 51.

 

How many fake imprinted Parker 51 blindcaps have you seen? I thought it would be obvious that I have original first year 51's, but I guess you jump to speculation first. If a 51 was sanded down, wouldn't part of the barrel match the blindcap color? You've never seen a speedline filler?

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I have seen a number of later DJ 51s with 1941-production blind caps. Parker must have run off a quantity of them as spares, knowing that blind caps do end up getting lost by customers, and sent them out to dealers.

 

Thank you! An answer I was not expecting! As a dealer would you classify these as first year 51's or regular DJ 51's when selling? I just parted out the few I had, now looking for first year barrels.

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First year (and zero year) 51s are a subject that could make up the better part of a book on 51s. 75 years after the fact we are left with a lot of pens that may have very likely been repaired at some point. These repairs may well have been done with contemporary new production parts by Parker or by a modern era restorer using parts scrounged from broken pens. There is also the possibility of repairs being done using manufactured parts, and we know of entire pens being made to appear as first year pens. Drawing conclusions from one or two examples is not advisable. A few members of the pen community have had the opportunity to see a lot of a particular model.

 

I would note that the barrel profile of a DJ pen is quite different than that of a SJ pen. Once can't simply convert a DJ pen to a SJ pen nor can one easily do the opposite. Even matching a bling cap from one pen to another is challenging considering the number of pens that don't get reassembled correctly with the restorer resulting to sanding the joint. It is to bad the pens in question have been parted out. Seeing pictures would prove illuminating.

 

What constitutes a First year 51 is more complicated than a jewel or a blind cap or an imprint. Keep in mind that caps and nibs can be easily changed and were out of necessity leaving it difficult to rely on these as a determining factor. One really needs to look at the entire pen before coming to a conclusion on what you may or may not have.

 

As David mentions, there is strong evidence that at some point Parker used back-stock parts reserved for repairs in production pens. This observation comes from seeing thousands of pens and hundreds (yes hundreds) of pre-production and first year pens. Finding ways to organize the information have proven more difficult than it would appear on the surface. I am aware of at least one effort that is underway to do so and we are all aware of the Shepard book on 51s that gives us a good start but collector knowledge as a whole really needs to be put into a single reference and Internet lore needs to be put aside in favor of real data.

 

It would have been good to see the pens in question.

 

FB

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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