what could make the feed dry out while writing?

[cecirdr]

I have a brand spanking new pen. It's a smooth wet writer right after filling the converter. But after a page or so, the tines go dry on me. The ink doesn't appear to be getting from the converter to the feed. If I turn the piston a bit to move ink to the feed, I can write well for a couple more pages. (small journal pages) So far nothing I'm doing will get the ink to feed by itself.

 

I've washed things out well with water and a bit of dish soap. The ink I'm trying to use is Noodlers...black and devil red. (I tried both to see if one would be better than the other.) I'm using the noodlers in my pelikan m200s and have no skipping or drying out. As a matter of fact, the italic nib on my pelikan tended to start out dry on down strokes with PR ink, but is flowing like a champ with the noodlers.

 

So...I've put PR into my new pen to see if it flows better. While doing this I noticed that the converter is easy to slip and cause you to get more air than ink in a fill. So I reseated it to make sure the fill was good with no bubbles. Is it possible for ink to have enough surface tension to not leak out a hairline seal problem (the seating of the converter), but enough air can get in to cause ink to not flow to the feed?

 

Thanks for any advice,

Ceci

[southpaw]

First step I would try would be another washing with water and mild detergent, followed by filling with a free-flowing and trouble-free ink like Waterman Florida Blue. IMHO, the Noodler's tend to flow less than WM.

[ElaineB]

I second Southpaw's advice. Also I've read that converters themselves can have problems. Some brands behave well, others are made from inferior plastic that does not allow the ink to flow out easily. Wim is our expert on which is which. The fact that your converter doesn't seem to seal really securely might also be an issue.

 

Can you specify which brand pen you're using and where the converter came from? I'm sure folks here will be able to help you troubleshoot what's going on.

 

ElaineB

[cecirdr]

Reseating the converter seemed to have helped. I may need to change to another one. But, right now, I've just managed to write 3 pages in my journal without having the feed dry out. So, so far so good.

 

My new pen is a danitrio. I think it's normally known as a fairly wet and smooth writer. Mine fits that description with no problem, but up until this last converter fill, it didn't flow ink to the feed worth a toot.

 

I don't know diddly about converters, so I just guessed about the seal when filling. I wasn't getting a good fill even with the nib all the way (and a bit more) in the ink. I was getting lots of air. So I emptied it all out and did a little light twist and lo and behold the converter essentially fell off. I put it back on and pushed a bit to secure it. But it feels like it would dislodge easily or get loose easily. Is that normal?

 

At any rate, I don't want to get my hopes up too soon, but so far the feed still appears wet.

 

Ceci

[cecirdr]

False hope....was dashed.

 

My pen just dried out ...again. It wrote a bit longer than usual, so I thought I'd figured it out. But I was literally 2 sentences away from the tines being as dry as the sahara.

 

I don't have any waterman ink...only private reserve and noodlers. The PR writes well in my Pelikans, but the italic nib seems to prefer the noodlers. So all my pelikans are writing like champs with either ink.

 

I can wash the converter out again....other than that...any suggestions? I really would like to write with the noodlers since I just moved to the rainy pacific northwest.

 

Ceci

[southpaw]

The converter should seat and not be loose - it should certainly not feel like it's about to fall out. You may try twisting the converter very slightly side-to-side as you try to seat it. It may be that it's a tight fit over the feed and it's not being fully seated. If it won't seat securely, I would suggest sending the pen back - had to do that with a Sonnet.

 

I would also recommend you getting a bottle of WM Florida Blue - it's really great for trouble shooting things like this, plus it's just a nice blue. You could get their Blue-Black also. You may want to check out the ink reviews to help you choose if you're not sure.

 

Sorry to hear about all your troubles, but hopefully they'll work out soon.

[cecirdr]

Thanks southpaw,

 

I'll keep the waterman florida blue in mind...it does look like a lovely color. I just want to use up all my other options first since I need another bottle of ink like I need a hole in my head.

 

I did notice this morning that the pen is wet again....so it looks like the flow from the converter is just too slow for continuous writing. That's why sometimes I get a page and a half while other times I get 3 pages before it poops out. If I stop for a while, the ink flow to the feed catches up.

 

So it looks like it's purely an ink "problem". (Based purely on looks, the converter looks like a visconti.) I guess that's why I see some people using dish soap in water to assist in flow. I did that, but I rinsed so thoroughly, that there was probably not even a hint of extra "surfactant" in the converter to loosen up the surface tension on the ink.

 

So, I'm going to try a little experiment and hope it works. If not, I'll get the waterman ink and this pen will be relegated to journal writing only since letters, checks etc may see the elements. I'd really wanted this pen to be an everyday writer, but that's ok if it's my journaling pen.

[southpaw]

After the flush with water and a drop of dishwashing liquid, just rinse once. HTH

[TheNobleSavage]

I was having this problem with my Conklin/Swisher Nozac. It would write well until the ink in the feed was used up. There would be no flow from the converter unless one of 3 things happened. I let the pen sit for an hour, force feed ink through the converter by twisting the knob for the converter or just fill the pen up with fresh ink. I tried 4 different converters from 4 different companies along with the flushing out and using different types of inks

 

Regardless, the end result would be a dry feed and no ink coming out of the nib. I returned the pen and I recieved another with the same problem. So I just asked for a store credit

 

I also ran into this problem with a Stipula 22, and 2 Stipula/Levenger Veronas

 

I sent in the Stipula 22 to the Factory and 5 months later it finally came back in working order.

 

The 2 Stipula/Levenger Veronas I sent to Keith for repair

 

Sometimes, you just get lemons and I seem to get them more often than none.

 

I would consider sending your Dani Trio back to the factory for repairs. I am sure you will get a better result from it without limitations on the type of inks you can use due to the flow. I hope all works out for you!!!

[KCat]

another source of info on this particular pen is Kevin "winedoc". He's a registered member here and posts often on Pentrace as well. He may be able to tell you if there is something with this particular model that might be a known problem.

[winedoc]

While great care is taken polishing the urushi, sometimes the oil can get into the feed. To solve the problem, I use equal parts of 409 with equal part of cool water and just flush the whole nib/feed/converter unit heck out. If this does not solve the flow problem, let me know and I'lll get you a new feed or a new nib/feed if needed. Some have said 409 not safe, but I think it's more for vintage pens. I have no problem with modern pens urushi included. Just remember to flush and dry the lacquer as soon as you are done. Don't soak it.

 

Kevin

[antoniosz]

Just to take the mystery out of the dry nib due to converter problem, let me try to explain exactly what "converter problem" means.

 

In some converters under certain conditions (e.g. pen kept nib up) it is possible that the ink "clings" on the walls of the converter leaving an air bubble closer to the entrance of the feed. Gravity alone in that case does not work. In that case the nib writes with the ink present in the feed but then dries out.

 

Some companies include a tiny plastic ball into their cartridges or converters - MB I believe and some others have a tiny spring. If you shake the pen a bit then the ball or the spring breaks the surface tension and lets the ink flow down towards the feed entrance.

 

To make sure that this is your problem all you need to do is when the pen dries out, remove carefully the barrel to expose the converter and see if indeed there is ink stuck at the top of the converter. If it is then switching converters, or to cartridges or to the bulb filler conversion that Lex and others have promoted will solve the problem. If there is ink at the bottom of the converter there you may have the dreaded "vapor lock" problem where the air bubbles are trapped within the feed or actually just below the exit of the feed to the converter. This is a bit more complicated problem.

 

I hope I did not make things appear more complicated than before

[cecirdr]

To make sure that this is your problem all you need to do is when the pen dries out, remove carefully the barrel to expose the converter and see if indeed there is ink stuck at the top of the converter. If it is then switching converters, or to cartridges or to the bulb filler conversion that Lex and others have promoted will solve the problem. If there is ink at the bottom of the converter there you may have the dreaded "vapor lock" problem where the air bubbles are trapped within the feed or actually just below the exit of the feed to the converter. This is a bit more complicated problem.

 

I hope I did not make things appear more complicated than before

I had the air bubble at the bottom once, so I thought that was the problem....ink just staying up at the top of the converter. Then....3 times in a row, the ink has been at the bottom of the converter, but no flow.

 

I'll get out this afternoon and get some 409 and try what windoc mentioned. Here's hoping it works. If not, can you explain the vapor lock problem?

 

Thanks everyone. This has been very educational.

 

Ceci

[antoniosz]

The vapor lock problem is when the channels of the feed and/or the properties of the ink and feed material are such that make the passage of air bubbles into the converter difficult/impossible.

 

This is sort of the theory in the sense that it is impossible to see the air bubbles in the feed - so when I get my hand on an micro-CT I will let all of you know

 

The only practical solution that I found in my case is the use of an extremely well flowing ink like Tanzanite. I do have a pen that works ONLY with tanzanite - nothing else.

 

This problem was touched upon in the early days of FPN at https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...p?showtopic=299

where a "surgical" procedure to 'cure" it was suggested but I never found the time/desire to do it.... So YMMV

Edited June 27, 2005 by antoniosz

[cecirdr]

The vapor lock problem is when the channels of the feed and/or the properties of the ink and feed material are such that make the passage of air bubbles into the converter difficult/impossible.

Hmmmm, that does sound intricate. I'm hoping that my problem is just a newbie situation wherein I didn't get the feed cleaned of oils good enough before I inked up and started using the pen.

 

FWIW, I did another wash with water and dish shop...only rinsing once before filling with ink...and I was just able to write 3 pages non-stop. I haven't been able to do that since I got the pen. I'm gonna cross my fingers yet again, that I've got this thing licked.

 

Call me a chicken...but I'm scared to try to 50/50 409 solution unless all else fails. So if I still get a dry feed, I'll probably try one more soap and water wash out before I try to 409 trick.

 

Ceci

[cecirdr]

Ok....it's a theme. I spoke too soon again. Things dried up 2 sentences after a posted that things were looking better. :bonk:

 

I'm off to go get some 409. I post later if that helped....after writing at least 5 pages to not make this goof up again.

 

Ceci

[antoniosz]

The vapor lock problem is indeed extreme. In the majority of cases a g*o*o*d cleaning works. In some cases you may be able to pull nib and feed out for a more thorough cleaning, but it is OK to be a chicken with pens. The problem starts when we "think" we know what we are doing and we take more risque approaches

[cecirdr]

I read the thread you posted where y'all discussed vapor lock. Did you ever get your two pens writing? Just curious.

 

BTW...It's raining here and I was lazy...I cleaned my pen out with a 50/50 mix of simple green. Despite the ads stating that it's eco friendly, I found out that it contains the same main ingredient at 409. So....I thought, why not? It'll keep me from getting out in the rain.

 

Well, it didn't work. I'm still running dry. It takes quite a bit of writing to get the problem to show up...and you can't let your pen sit for too long or the feed will finally get ink. So I'm starting to feel like a kid serving detention after school writing his/her punishment sentence over and over.

 

I will mind my manners. I will mind my manners. I will mind my manners...........

[antoniosz]

Vapor lock is rare - some dirt/oil in the feed is most common.

Ideally you could pull the nib/feed out for better cleaning, but if you chickened out with the 409 you will probably shiever with the idea of pulling the nib/feed :) So keep cleaning

[cecirdr]

Argh...I've washed and washed...50/50 simple green, 409...no luck. It's not any better at all. How can there still be oils on this thing? :bonk:

 

How do I pull the nib and feed? Do they screw out or pull out?

 

Ceci