Where To Start With Flex Calligraphy?

[twigletzone]

Hi everyone,

 

So I've just discovered that pointed pen/flex pen calligraphy is something I really want to look further into. I got hold of an Osmiroid Oxford with a copperplate nib as part of a lot on Ebay, and on testing it out found it does more to improve my natural hand than any other nib I've ever tried, even with my total ignorance taken into account. It's a very different animal to pretty much any other nib I've ever used but if it makes my writing look that good I'd like to explore the whole thing further.

 

So what are the basics for learning flexi calligraphy? What do I need to know and expect, given that I've only ever used rigid nibs before? (I was a childhood calligraphy enthusiast and learnt some Italic, black letter and so on). If I need a particular hand to aspire to I've always liked English Roundhand - I wasn't taught any particular hand at school, just a fairly generic cursive which was oriented more towards pragmatism than anything aesthetic.

 

I'm left handed (surprise surprise) and I underwrite. As I said I've got an Osmiroid Oxford copperplate pen to practise with, though it scratches like the devil's dog. Is it worth having other pens to try out? Should I look into getting my Ahab modded for more flex (it's currently on the for sale pile), or is it never going to compare to a dedicated copperplate nib?

 

Thankyou all!

 

[Inky.Fingers]

Greg Minuskin just sold some fountain pen with a dip pen nib (gold) , these are FrankenPen. Dip pen nibs are the only way to go if you are considering English Round hand.

 

These scripts are written with needlepoint. So yes, scratchy as hell, but with a very light touch, it's smooth as butter.

 

Good Luck

Edited July 24, 2016 by _InkyFingers

[D B Holtz]

There are two books on copperplate/roundhand that are usually recommended for learning this script:

 

Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy: A Step-by-Step Manual, by Eleanor Winters, and

 

Copperplate Calligraphy, by Dick Jackson.

 

I have them both. My personal preference is the Jackson book, but the Winters book is the one most often recommended. Both are good, I just liked the look of the Jackson one better. There is also a wealth of information and examples on the IAMPETH website (www.iampeth.com). I would start there and at the Flourish Forum (theflourishforum.com) for details on nibs, ink, paper, and practice before buying any books or supplies.

 

Hope this helps,

DB

[Inky.Fingers]

Get free book. https://archive.org/details/FosterPracticalPenmanship

 

Follow the ancient way for perfect penmanship. Or die trying. IMHO, you are already familiar with broad pen, then do italic (the precursor to English Round hand.)

[twigletzone]

I'm left-handed - italic is the wrong way round for me XD

[Inky.Fingers]

With utmost respect, a whole hearted disagreement. Having the correct oblique nib and slow but sure practice, you can achieve anything.

 

I believe in you.

[twigletzone]

*sigh* yes, but then I have to get the correct sort of oblique nib, rather than using what I already own, and I'm on a pretty much zero budget... I also find the challenge of learning a whole new penmanship skill appealing. Flex penmanship is something I've never even tried before. Plus, copperplate is the calligraphic style most likely to have a positive influence on my everyday handwriting, and that's my overall goal with learning calligraphy anyway.

[smk]

twigletzone - are you an under-writer? If so, you have a distinct advantage in writing slanted scripts as the natural angle of your nib (pen) would match the slant of the letters. This is one of the things an oblique holder accomplishes for right handed people.

 

Copperplate is a demanding script to learn but is equally satisfying when you do see improvement. I started learning Copperplate some years ago and documented the process right here on FPN in this thread: Learning Copperplate - others joined in and we all learned this beautiful hand together. I think you will find some useful stuff in that thread from our collective experience.

 

The link to the W. A. Baird book is out of date but you can find the book on the revamped IAMPETH site (that actually points to the archive.org link provided above).

 

The biggest challenge starting out is figuring out which materials work best for you. It is important to find an ink, nib and paper combination that works consistently and then stick to it for your practice sessions - this way you will only focus on the learning. You can experiment with other nibs, inks and papers during your 'play' time :-)

 

Dip pens are the way to go for learning Copperplate. Luckily a holder and some nibs will cost you under $20. Walnut ink is great trouble free ink to start with. You can purchase it in crystal form and mix it with water to make ink. Noodler's Black mixed with a good amount (50%) water also works very well with pointed pens.

 

The Hunt 101, Gillott 303 and Brause 361 are good nibs to try on the more flexible end of the spectrum. Hunt 22 is a bit stiffer (if you have a heavy hand) and Hunt 56 is stiffer still. In the beginning everyone has a heavy hand :-) You can find these at John Neal Bookseller's site as well as Paper & Ink Arts.

 

I hope this gets you started :-) Please feel free to ask questions if you have any.

 

- Salman

[twigletzone]

I am indeed an underwriter

 

I'm actually practising for now with an old Osmiroid Oxford school pen that has a copperplate nib - I acquired it by accident in a lot of Osmiroids I bought on ebay, and discovered through testing it that I'm a lot better suited to copperplate than italic!

 

I'm not a huge fan of dip pens in general, to say nothing of the fact I live in a rented house and have to worry about spilling ink on the landlady's carpet. So I'm actually happy enough with the Oxford for now. It's a little stiff but it's teaching me a lot about correct rotation and pressure. I've been using a set of lessons I found on zanerian.com, the E L Brown ones if you're interested, and for the most part am just practising strokes and getting used to the new way of handling a pen for now.

 

Thanks very much for the reply

Edited July 26, 2016 by twigletzone

[smk]

Looks like you are on way twigletzone. E L Brown's exemplars have some non-standard characteristics but the basic structure is solid. I quite like the way he writes the minuscule 'f'.

 

I would love to see some of your work if you are comfortable with sharing it.

 

- Salman

[twigletzone]

Once there's any that isn't a total mess I'll post

[twigletzone]

Well I don't know about it not being a total mess but I'm interested to know what people think. So here are some pics of the exercises (I've only had a few days' practise!):

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1469740952__1_img_4994.jpg

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1469740977__1_img_4995.jpg

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1469740999__1_img_4996.jpg

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1469741022__1_img_4997.jpg

[smk]

You have a good sense of spacing which is a great base to build on.

 

It seems to me that you are having a bit of a challenge in keeping to the slant. It helps to rotate the paper clockwise a bit until the slit in your nib is closer to the slant lines. You will be more consistent this way. BTW you are free to change the slant a bit - it doesn't have to be exactly 55 degrees if that is not comfortable for you.

 

Also, shift the paper every few words. This will keep your hand in the 'zone' and moving freely.

 

The letters shapes in Copperplate are quite thin e.g. the 'o' is only half as wide as it is tall.

 

Copperplate is challenging but fun at the same time. I am glad you shared your practice sheets. You will be amazed at your improvement when you look back at these in just a few weeks.

 

Salman

[twigletzone]

Thankyou! It's great to get feedback

 

That's 40 degrees, not 55... good tip about rotating the paper though, I'll have to try it!

 

I'm well aware I can't get the shape of the Os even close to correct, it's been annoying me, but I think that's the influence of my natural hand showing through - each letter tends to be far wider than it is tall and very rounded. I'll be interested to see how much that develops over time!

[smk]

The typical slant for Copperplate is 55 degrees from the horizontal. I think you are measuring 40 degrees from the vertical (which comes out to 50 degrees from the horizontal).

 

Writing at a steeper angle is usually considered to be more difficult but some people actually find it easier. Madarasz did one version of his script at 45 degrees (from the horizontal) which is probably the limit of slant before things start deforming.

 

There are always going to be challenges in learning any hand (or anything) - overcoming them is the fun part. I am sure the 'o' stands no chance against your determination :-)

 

- Salman

[twigletzone]

Ohhhh right! I'll have to figure it all out again

[twigletzone]

Well, I went down to my local art shop and treated myself to a nib holder and a selection of dip nibs to try out, and I'm trying to get to grips with using them... they really are very different animals to modern fountain pens! I wondered if they'd be more like using a paintbrush than anything I think of as a pen, and I think I was right. I also wasn't expecting the sheer amount of ink dip pens lay down on the page - I see why people dilute their inks to lower the saturation.

 

The shop only stocks Leonardt and Gillott nibs so I haven't been able to test the legendary Nikko/Zebra G that everyone says is so good for a beginner. They do sell a Leonardt G, which looks similar, so I tried one of those - and sprung its tines within half a page. So far I'm getting better results with a Gillott 404 and Parker Quink; my paper is awful and bleeds like crazy with the Gillott but then I'm hardly producing anything legible at the moment anyway so I'm not really treating that as a problem just now.

 

(For your amusement, the Parker ink was actually extracted by hand from some very elderly Parker cartridges I had lying around - picture me at my desk with a syringe, a vintage glass inkwell, an old Vector I've had since school to do the piercing of the cartridges for me and a *lot* of fiddling and swearing!)

 

I actually bought some Calli ink as well, but it's having the same problem as the Diamine ink I originally tried - it hurtles off the nib in one giant blob. I'm going to try diluting it with water to see if that dries out the flow a bit. But the Quink will do fine for practise for now.

[smk]

The modern Gillott 404 is a pretty stiff nib. The vintage ones are a dream but one can get comparable results from a modern Hunt 22. The Zebra G is a nice nib but not necessary for learning. I learned Copperplate mainly with the Gillot 303, 170 and Brause EF 66 - all quite sharp and flexible.

 

The ink running off your nibs can be due to the protective oils on your nibs. I wash mine with toothpaste to get rid of the it. Oils from one's fingers often get on the nib but a bit of saliva takes care of that.

 

Calli inks are great for broad edged work but not so good for pointed nibs. Quink works quite well. You just need to find some good paper :-)

 

- Salman

[twigletzone]

Grumble. Might see if I can return the Calli or change it for something else then.

 

I did clean the nibs first, the ink was coating them properly, it just wasn't the right sort of ink (it was Diamine).

 

I loved the Gillott 170 when I tried it, really smooth and flexible, but since I'm transitioning from the Osmiroid nib (which was as stiff as a board in comparison to the dip nibs) I figured one step at a time or I'll ruin all the more flexible ones in seconds.

[ac12]

I successfully use many different fountain pen inks with my dip pens; Waterman, Pelikan, Diamine, Private Reserve, Noodlers, etc.

So I think it might be one or both of 2 problems.

 

1 - The nib is not CLEAN of manufacturing oils, or other gunk. I use rubbing alcohol, where the inert ingredient is WATER. You do NOT want the rubbing alcohol with "other stuff" as the inert ingredient, as you are trying to CLEAN the nib, not put more stuff on to it.

When I get done writing, I clean the nib, and the last step is a wiping with alcohol.

When I pick up the pen to use, I will wipe the nib with alcohol prior to inking up. And don't touch the nib after you wipe it, or your finger oils will get onto the nib.

When I clean the nib during use, example when I change to a different ink, I will do an alcohol wipe as the final step of the cleaning.

 

2 - You may be holding the pen too steep. I use an oblique dip pen holder, so I hold my nib at a rather low angle to the paper.