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British Pens...show And Tell.


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137 replies to this topic

#101 PaulS

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 22:30

Supreme's can have both push fit and screw section fitting - also both button and lever fill - but they all seem to have standard looking open nibs, and the caps are all screw fit.

 

Diplomas have both button and lever fill - probably also have both push and screw fitting sections (although I can only find screw examples in mine).

Late 1940s examples have the semi-hooded nibs and push fit caps, but earlier pens have the usual larger open nibs and screw fit caps.

 

I have three lizards, but only in the Supreme.                     The Diploma was the earliest of the two to be introduced, possibly some time in the late 1920s, with the Supreme introduced around 1940, I think.

 

Externally, it's the clips and cap rings that show the difference between the two models, but you'd need to see a reasonable quantity to understand the differences  -  early Diplomas having ball-ended clips, with later examples having metal cap jewels.          Later Supremes appear to share the same cap band as the Diploma.

 

As you can see, there's much similarity and difference, if you know what to look for.           Of the two, I think the only design that really stands out are the metal jewelled Diplomas, some of which have a translucent barrel end similar to the Waterman 100 Year Pens.

 

and if you're not confused by now, you ought to be :D

 

Edited to include couple of pix of the later versions of the Diploma - l.f. and b.f., also showing the rather small semi-hooded nib.                  The black looking pen isn't black  -  it's a very dark coloured maroon.


Edited by PaulS, 12 May 2017 - 09:06.


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#102 Goudy

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:53

A couple of John Whytwarth 214 sterling overlay safety pens:

 

l7uM5pd.jpg

 

The top one is hallmarked for London 1920, the lower one is 1922 ("Patent applied for"). The pens use the Waterman-style screw retraction system. The turning knob of the 1920 pen actually looks a lot like the Waterman design, whereas by 1922, Whytwarth had added a knurled pattern to the rear of the barrel and given the knob a more bulbous shape.

 

Here's another silver 214 (not mine) hallmarked 1924, showing that Whytwarth had obtained their patent by this date. I haven't been able to locate the patent itself (No. 185512).

 

pbrd5tM.jpg

 

ep3qJXO.png


utQ9Ep9.jpg


#103 max dog

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 21:59

I'm surprised there aren't many Yard-O-Leds mentioned in this thread.

The Yard-O-Led Viceroy Grand has always been a grail pen for me and one of those bucket list pens to acquire.  I was fortunate enough to have some spare funds recently for a nice fountain pen to mark an occasion and so I got one finally and I can't be happier with it.  

fpn_1496007805__yard_o_led_4.jpg

fpn_1496008465__yard_o_led_2.jpg

fpn_1496008058__silver_pens_2.jpg

Yard O Led Viceroy Grand Victorian (F) in the middle stands out.

 

fpn_1495358437__yard_o_led_and_tissot_po

fpn_1496007949__silver_pens_3.jpg

fpn_1496008018__silver_pens_8.jpg


Edited by max dog, 28 May 2017 - 22:11.


#104 MercianScribe

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 18:23

Supreme's can have both push fit and screw section fitting - also both button and lever fill - but they all seem to have standard looking open nibs, and the caps are all screw fit...

 

Cheers for all the info! Finally got it open after about three days wrestling, and several big blisters. It was screw in. Still wrestling with the gold Spot though.

 

A couple of John Whytwarth 214 sterling overlay safety pens:

 

l7uM5pd.jpg

 

The top one is hallmarked for London 1920, the lower one is 1922 ("Patent applied for"). The pens use the Waterman-style screw retraction system. The turning knob of the 1920 pen actually looks a lot like the Waterman design, whereas by 1922, Whytwarth had added a knurled pattern to the rear of the barrel and given the knob a more bulbous shape.

 

Here's another silver 214 (not mine) hallmarked 1924, showing that Whytwarth had obtained their patent by this date. I haven't been able to locate the patent itself (No. 185512).

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm surprised there aren't many Yard-O-Leds mentioned in this thread.

The Yard-O-Led Viceroy Grand has always been a grail pen for me and one of those bucket list pens to acquire.  I was fortunate enough to have some spare funds recently for a nice fountain pen to mark an occasion and so I got one finally and I can't be happier with it.  

 

 

fpn_1496008058__silver_pens_2.jpg

Yard O Led Viceroy Grand Victorian (F) in the middle stands out.

 

 

fpn_1496007949__silver_pens_3.jpg

fpn_1496008018__silver_pens_8.jpg

 

Those Yard-O-Leds... and Whytwarth - I'd never heard of them - are all beautiful!


Hi, I'm Mat

  :)  


#105 praxim

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 03:46

Lever fill pens make up about a quarter of my Onoto collection, after adding one today. Here they all are. From left to right, with nib number bracketed: Junior (unnumbered?), 850 (17), 1220 (22), 1332 (22) and 21 (15)

 

Onoto levers  213 (1 of 1).jpg

 

The latest is the green Junior, picked up for about US$22 from the same market vendor who sold me the 850 last year. It has the usual problems -- crumbled sac, leaking ink, stuck section -- but otherwise the nib and lever box seem in good condition (the 850 had bent tines) and the celluloid in much better condition than I had expected. In size and weight it is very like a Waterman 52 1/2V in BHR. The 1960-era Australian 21 on the right is noticeably slimmer so even lighter despite its margin of extra length. The Junior has a normal cap clip which happens to be out of sight here.

 

It will be a couple of months before I work on pens again, at which point I ought to be able to bring this one back to life subject to getting the section out safely.

 

edit to add a little more information:

I found on the barrel in the usual place near the finial the number 601 (and 58). Looking up Steve Hull's book, the only pen with that number, and identical appearance and apparent proportions, is the Dainty of 1937 (see p 213) but this one is clearly labelled on the barrel: "Onoto Junior" and "De La Rue & Co Ltd London".

 

The only Junior that Steve mentions from that period was an eye-dropper of different appearance. Still, a Junior it was branded and 1937 looks the right period. It should prove to have a 22 nib. I can not see that at the moment.


Edited by praxim, 15 July 2017 - 04:51.

When you receive new information you can change your mind, or you can close it; or you can try shooting the messenger.

#106 MalcolmH

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 20:34

Conway Stewart - The Universal Pen No 466.

 

Manufactured from the 1920's through to the 40's, and a good example of Conway Stewart's more affordable pens.

 

In 1926 the 466M was priced at 5/6d, with the 466 at 5/-

By 1939 the price of the 466 had risen to a scandalous 5/6d...and in 1943 with restricted manufacture, 6/6d.

 

"Universal" pens were pens everybody could afford (though back in the 30's, average pay was around 1/- an hour, if you were lucky). These 466's have Chrome plate trim, no cap band, and the smaller size 1 nib.

 

35572772550_4a0fd01e31_b.jpg

 

 

 

The examples here are L to R:

 

466M (M for mottled vulcanite) made for, and branded, The Rose Lever Filler, Rose & Co. Southampton.

466 mottled vulcanite.

466 black chased.

466 blue pearl.

 

35829253571_fa93268755_b.jpg

 

The length of the Rose pen is 13 cms from nib tip to barrel end, the mottled 466 is 12.7, while the black chased and the blue pearl are both 12 cms.

 

 

35961495635_27e4f64f75_b.jpg

 

The nib on the Rose & Co pen, is Rose branded, the black chased has a 1A (with a round breather hole), and the other two, I haven't had the nibs out to check...but I suspect they are both size 1 with the heart shaped breather.

 

35961493115_8e2f7c371b_b.jpg

 

The Rose pen has a lug lever, maybe dating to the late 1920's or earlier 30's. The mottled vulcanite pen has a small lollipop lever, maybe mid 30's, while the other two pens have the later diamond lever and matching clip, which the 466 was sporting in the late 30's / 40's.

 

  35819879635_e5d730eee6_b.jpg

 

 

Inside the mottled 466 is an ossified Conway Stewart ink sac, which I intend to keep intact.

 

 

35121580534_e268d41eef_b.jpg

 

 

Size comparison with (L to R) the green hatched 286, blue pearl 475, green pearl 479.

 

As with most of Conway Stewart's Universal Pens, they might be cheap, but they are certainly cheerful.

 

:D

 

 

 

 



#107 MalcolmH

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 09:12

Always a pleasure to pick up a pen for a few quid, and find that it's a great user. Recently had this Osmiroid 75 off eBay for £7. It's brilliant. A tad rusty on the clip, but the piston works perfectly. The broad rolatip nib works first time every time.

 

48220723731_8b99254f7d_c.jpg

 

:)

 

 

 



#108 PaulS

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 10:48

Malcolm -  Osmiroid - oh really !!           aren't we scraping the barrel a tad here  …….   they're like Platignum - oh so smelly at times, and the plastic is, well  …………...    I just couldn't be seen using one.                    

 

I'm joking  :lticaptd:

 

Presumably the nib is a gold wash job  -  whatever you do don't rub it  -  not even in the hope of a genie.                 I used to see shed loads of these things - collected a few - and them gave most away and I've kept just two which are l.f. and piston types - I collect pens designed or made for shorthand, and these two have just such nibs, but guess they'll never taste the blue/black stuff.  

 

My piston example is a red version of yours  -  presumably we can't see the window on your pen as it's full of ink?           Oddly, my l.f. has two nibs - one sits neatly beneath a larger one - looks a most odd arrangement, and as you'll know, the feed plus nibs unscrews from the section.

I can show you mine, if you like ;)           



#109 MalcolmH

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 11:27

Malcolm -  Osmiroid - oh really !!           aren't we scraping the barrel a tad here  …….   they're like Platignum - oh so smelly at times, and the plastic is, well  …………...    I just couldn't be seen using one.                    

 

I'm joking  :lticaptd:

 

Presumably the nib is a gold wash job  -  whatever you do don't rub it  -  not even in the hope of a genie.                 I used to see shed loads of these things - collected a few - and them gave most away and I've kept just two which are l.f. and piston types - I collect pens designed or made for shorthand, and these two have just such nibs, but guess they'll never taste the blue/black stuff.  

 

My piston example is a red version of yours  -  presumably we can't see the window on your pen as it's full of ink?           Oddly, my l.f. has two nibs - one sits neatly beneath a larger one - looks a most odd arrangement, and as you'll know, the feed plus nibs unscrews from the section.

I can show you mine, if you like ;)           

.

 

 

LOL...I've shown you mine...so show me yours.   :yikes: 

 

Exactly. Osmiroid, not exactly the best of reputations. Who'd have thought it would prove to be such a good pen. I have a second black one on the way now. Slightly different finial and clip. Still cheap.

 

Yes, the window doesn't show because of the ink.   :thumbup:



#110 PaulS

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 13:40

here then is my l.f. 65 - with shorthand nib, plus couple of pix showing what appears to be this double nib configuration.        I've very little experience or knowledge of Osmiroid, but this feed does seem to be host to a couple of nibs  -  a most unusual feature.            Perhaps others will have some information to contribute. :)   

Attached Images

  • Osmiroid 65 - Shorthand nib - 1.JPG
  • Osmiroid 65 - shorthand nib - 2.JPG
  • Osmiroiod 65 - shorthand nib - 3.JPG

Edited by PaulS, 14 July 2019 - 13:40.


#111 MalcolmH

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 18:11

Fascinating. Have you tried writing with this, Paul? It looks like someone's inserted an oblique nib on top of one of the italic caligraphy nibs.



#112 PaulS

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 18:29

Have to say I've not even dip tested this one Peter - I'd assumed there wouldn't have been enough room at the nib location - in the feed - to accommodate two nibs, but looks like I'm wrong.

I will have a go at writing some time and see what the outcome is.



#113 northlodge

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:53

Have to say I've not even dip tested this one Peter - I'd assumed there wouldn't have been enough room at the nib location - in the feed - to accommodate two nibs, but looks like I'm wrong.

I will have a go at writing some time and see what the outcome is.

 

As designed / sold I believe, I have certainly seen a number of similar nibs. 



#114 MalcolmH

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 05:41

Excellent. PaulS, could you post a photo of the nib unit unscrewed?



#115 PaulS

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 12:31

I've also included pix of a piston fill Osmiroid 75 plus its feed/nib arrangement, and like the 65 this front end unit unscrews  -  think you can just about see the split word  SHORT  HAND  on the cream coloured feed of the 75.               In fact the steel nib from the 75 has a very generous amount of tipping, unlike the 65 which appears to have possibly lost its tipping  -  someone may even have cut the tip off in an effort to make their own oblique stub.      

Interest in the company's post WW II efforts is mostly related to their production of italic, music, and other special nib needs which Osmiroid produced inexpensively, and this quick change threaded arrangement for feeds was obviously a winner.              Without trying to precis a lot of information about Osmiroid, here is the link kindly provided earlier with details of the company history, and makes for interesting reading.

 

http://www.fountainp...-short-history/

 

Sorry, pix didn't post in the order I'd intended  ….  images one and four refer to the 65 and two and three are for the 75.

Photo one shows the rear end of the section on the 65.

Attached Images

  • Osmiroid 65 shorthand - 2.JPG
  • Osmiroid 75 shorthand - 1.JPG
  • Osmiroid 75 shorthand - 2.JPG
  • Osmiroid 65 shorthand - 1.JPG

Edited by PaulS, 15 July 2019 - 12:34.


#116 MalcolmH

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 18:54

That's great, thanks. Will read up on the linked info when time permits.

 

Just received a maroon 75 with some spare nibs. One of them is marked medium hard, and has an insert under the nib. Hope to get some pix at weekend.

 

Thanks again PaulS, and thanks Northlodge for the added info.

 

:thumbup:



#117 penburg

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Posted 04 July 2020 - 18:06

Happy Independence Day from America. In good will as a former colony I want to celebrate my English-made pens: L to R: Two Mabie Todd Swans, a Waterman's 503, a Croxley, and a No-name (like mfd by Lang Pen Co.)  All lovely writers and beautiful to look at!

 

fpn_1593885132__english_pens.jpg


<img src="http://img356.images...ostminipo0.png" border="0" class="linked-sig-image" />

#118 Beechwood

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Posted 04 July 2020 - 19:40

Conway Stewart, Stephens and others

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#119 Kenlowe

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 13:38

Hi all

 

A Parker 61 set with a special cap plus a working (!) Liquid Lead pencil in the orginal case

 

CS Inter

 

 

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  • international.JPG
  • P61 .jpg


#120 Estycollector

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Posted 13 August 2020 - 10:08

Just received this Conway Stewart #84 yesterday from a member who restores pens in Scotland. This is my first British pen and it performs beautifully. 

fpn_1597313230__cs-84.jpg


Edited by Estycollector, 13 August 2020 - 10:09.

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