British Pens...show And Tell.

[peterg]

I think most (but not all) Pitman pens were manufactured by Waterman UK. I have had a number of Fono's and College pens and noted the similarity with Waterman models of the period.

 

They have always had fine / flexible nibs, so are usually quite sought after.

Which would suggest Altura pre 1948 as Waterman's didn't have a UK manufacturing facility. It is assumed that Altura made their pens, based on Waterman's taking them over just prior to opening their own factory.

[PaulS]

To the best of my knowledge there wasn't a Mentmore biro - but obviously there's no end to people's ingenuity, and what you see here is the result of someone's conversion of a f.p. to a biro, and when I first saw the pen I thought it was one of the Miles Martin Biros.

Both the section and barrel length of a standard 'Diploma' have been reduced and the button removed, although the ink refill still projects from the front of the section, probably more that it needs to. The refill is obviously old - crimped at the rear end and looks to carry the wording......ARTESIAN REFILL - PATENTED - (and then what appears to read - 'Ocroil' - but not entirely sure.

 

The Diploma was a popular and common model from Mentmore, so no doubt at the time the f.p. used to make this hybrid was thought to be of little value.

Also attached is a picture of a couple of Diploma b.f. showing how the f.p. should look.

[Cob]

 

The market was flooded with these a few years back, the story doing the rounds was that a box of NOS items was found in a Scottish newsagents shop.

 

Not sure about the accuracy of that yarn, and I would agree with your 1940's assessment. It is clear that Swan, Curzon (S.200), and M&C all made late year ED's, and the belief that these were for the Indian market is a reasonable one.

I ahd one of these Wavere;y eye-droppers in its box c/w the dropper. I was told that they were manufactured by Burnham!

 

Rgds

 

Cob

[mallymal1]

To the best of my knowledge there wasn't a Mentmore biro - but obviously there's no end to people's ingenuity, and what you see here is the result of someone's conversion of a f.p. to a biro, and when I first saw the pen I thought it was one of the Miles Martin Biros.

Both the section and barrel length of a standard 'Diploma' have been reduced and the button removed, although the ink refill still projects from the front of the section, probably more that it needs to. The refill is obviously old - crimped at the rear end and looks to carry the wording......ARTESIAN REFILL - PATENTED - (and then what appears to read - 'Ocroil' - but not entirely sure.

 

The Diploma was a popular and common model from Mentmore, so no doubt at the time the f.p. used to make this hybrid was thought to be of little value.

Also attached is a picture of a couple of Diploma b.f. showing how the f.p. should look.

 

One of those new fangled biro thingies, eh? You're right about ingenuity, and maybe the fountain pen was...yesterday's model, and the biro...very much today. Great stuff, Paul.

 

So, I take it that the Diploma went through some changes?

 

I started this thread, with a piccy of a Diploma, but it doesn't look like these beauties. I think that there are one or two others shown, also of different types. Maybe the Mentmore Diploma would make a nice mini-collection.

 

Malcolm

[PaulS]

According to Stephen Hull's book 'The English Fountain Pen Industry', the Diploma was introduced in 1934 - and looking at the above pair they suggest to me 1950s - but of course I could be wrong. Those have a semi-hooded nib, are b.f. pens, and seem to have acquired the colloquial name of stack of coins pen - this refers to the wide cap ring having a series of finely pattered lines running around the band - I suppose it does look a little like a stack of coins. Could be wrong but I suspect they may well have been the final effort at re-styling this model.

The Diploma seems to be prolific still on ebay etc., although most examples are earlier than the above pair, and are probably from the '30s and '40s - I seem to have about equal numbers of lever and button fill pens. In general they have little in the way of flex, and some are very firm. Your lizard skin one at the beginning of this thread looks very attractive - I have three lizards, but am sure they're all 'Supremes'.

 

A mini-collection attached. my favourite is the centre pen - it's monogrammed on the cap jewel with u/c R - I'd like to think it belonged to Prince Rainier.

Edited April 7, 2017 by PaulS

[mallymal1]

Prince Rainier, indeed! Wonderful.

 

Superb mini-collection! The bands on the Rainier pen remind me of the bands on the CS 100. It certainly looks a more up-market product.

[PaulS]

I had to stay up until two in the morning to make sure I won that pen - it certainly has a deco chunkiness, and a 'Christmas tree' shaped feed, so I guess possibly mid to late 1930s - and more tipping material on the point than you'd expect.

[PaulS]

my own quote from a little earlier ............. "To the best of my knowledge there wasn't a Mentmore biro" ............ Well, don't things have a habit of jumping out of the woodwork and biting you when least expected.

 

Again, referring to Stephen Hull's book - page 69 - where he speaks of Arthur Andrews - a name that is perhaps little known but without whom the British pen industry would have been the poorer. This guy spent virtually all of his working life with Mentmore, as an engineer, and to quote from 'The English Fountain Pen Industry' ................ "But he was amongst the first to see the potential of the ballpoint and, under his guidance, Mentmore invented the first retractable mechanism".

I assume from these comments that Mentmore did market a ballpoint, although have to say I've yet to see one.

 

So I was wrong, and would love to see one of the Mentmore ballpoints - they may well now be rare beasts.

Edited April 8, 2017 by PaulS

[mallymal1]

Well there you go. Eyes wide open.

[MercianScribe]

What do we know about Osmiroid pens? I can find very little in THE book.

 

 

 

Left to right...

 

A torpedo shaped pen in swirling colours, with a srew-in Rolatip nib. Marked with "PROPERTY OF E.S. PERRY LTD." who, I believe, were the manufacturers ot these pens. Sadly there is a neat slice round the barrel, but I wonder if that is there to discourage people from 'borrowing' the pen. There has been some shrinkage in the material of this pen. The cap/barrel are tight, and the section/barrel even tighter. Cartridge fill. Have I seen similar pens marked 65, and also lever fillers?

 

A 65, with screw-in Rolatip nib. This pen is ok. With the all the threads working fine. Cartridge fill.

 

An unmarked Calligraphy pen. The nib and section are one unit. The push fit cap/barrel interface is loose and rattly...but the nib doesn't dry out. Go figure.

 

All three pens write quite well, with the nibs tending to have a sweet spot.

 

I quite like them.

 

I'm pretty sure the torpedo on the left is an old pattern 65, and the one you have in the middle is the new pattern 65 which, at least partially coincidentally I would think came in around 1965! The old pattern was the first mass-produced Osmiroid, which seems to have been released around '58-'59 (I did see someone on eBay trying to sell a 65 from the early 1940s, which he claimed George Formby had used! It was a late pattern one too!). Just noticed you said cartridge fill... I don't think there were many of those at all. The vast majority seem to be LF.

 

I think the one on the right is an Easy-Change old pattern, but maybe missing its section ring? The new pattern ones had a metallic spot on the section about two-thirds up on the way to the nib, and no section ring IIRC. But I thought the three cap ring ones were new pattern so I'm probably wrong. The most common old pattern ones appear to be something that, although not stamped or marked so anywhere, was called the Oxford, which had one fairly broad cap ring of cheap looking plastic, and came in a variety of colours and cap ring colour variations, all plain, some quite horrible! I have a nice red one with a green cap ring.

 

The new pattern ones were called Opera... or was it Piano...?! Can't remember! I hope I took photos of the two NOS I got back in November, as they were written on the flat-packs - I know I debated about keeping them, but in the end... I live in Japan in a tiny tiny house! Anyway, nobody else seems to use the name, and the calligraphy sets with lots of nibs usually don't seem to have the names written on them anywhere.

 

I practice calligraphy at a very amateur level, so I quite like Osmiroids... Although, some of their italic nibs are pretty difficult to work with compared with modern Manuscript steel equivalents.

Edited May 10, 2017 by MercianScribe

[peterg]

I think the late 65's were aeromatic fillers and as you have found the cheap plastic tends to shrink

[PaulS]

here is a cartridge fill Osmiroid - probably one of the later examples, with what appears to be possibly a music nib, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

It's a shame these pens were poor in terms of plastic etc., and ended up with a very bad press........... nibs wise they must have been one of the more comprehensive suppliers........ standard for writing, calligraphy, music, shorthand - to name but several.

[MercianScribe]

I think the late 65's were aeromatic fillers and as you have found the cheap plastic tends to shrink

 

I think the early late 65s were mostly lever fillers!

The later late 65s were squeezefill, and also the Indian ink compatible ones, neither of which are as common as the lever fills in my experience.

 

I've been quite lucky in finding mostly unshrunk ones...! I think shrinkage varies with different colours too, as well as the more obvious variables like temperature and humidity.

 

I'll snap them for posting on here tonight if I get round to it... not a very exciting collection, really, and certainly nothing as gorgeous as that swirly number MalcolmH has up there!

[MercianScribe]

Osmiroid music nib..jpghere is a cartridge fill Osmiroid - probably one of the later examples, with what appears to be possibly a music nib, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

It's a shame these pens were poor in terms of plastic etc., and ended up with a very bad press........... nibs wise they must have been one of the more comprehensive suppliers........ standard for writing, calligraphy, music, shorthand - to name but several.

 

That's what's usually marketed as a calligraphic 'scroll' nib, not a 'music', but tbh I don't really know what a music is supposed to be, as they seem to vary between makers.

 

Osmiroid marketed these as scroll, as do Manuscript, and I even had one in No Nonsense Viewpoint (not modified - factory made)... IIRC they all used the same 'SH' but I've no idea what it stands for... Anyone?

[PaulS]

am sure you're spot on with calligraphic 'scroll' nib - can't really think where I got the idea it was for music - but impressing width and profile.

[grainweevil]

Osmiroid marketed these as scroll, as do Manuscript, and I even had one in No Nonsense Viewpoint (not modified - factory made)... IIRC they all used the same 'SH' but I've no idea what it stands for... Anyone?

 

"Shadow". Kaweco offer one too, but just to add confusion they refer to it as a "twin nib".

 

It's funny, I only have two Osmiroids, both 65s, and neither are lever fill! One is a squeeze filler and the other a cartridge. Alas, neither as exotic as Malcolm's swirled beauty. (Photo taken for the benefit of another query, but as it was handy...)

 

[MercianScribe]

Nice. The burgundy is one of their Indian Ink compatible ones (with a sketch nib minus its overfeed - they made the overfeeds optional anyway from the factory - I got rid of one those a couple of months ago and regret it), which I'm pretty sure they continued making after the 75s had come out in the '70s.

 

You can tell them from the octagonal (? maybe, never actually counted the sides!) tapered section, and the rivet thing on the section threads holding the filler in. They don't usually seem to come with a cap band though, but a plain plastic bevelled 'space' where one would be...

 

That top one is cool - never seen one of those before. Looks like the long-tined steel medium italic that they also put in a lot of their Indian Ink Pen kits, but I've never seen a straight octagonal section before, or an Indian Ink Pen with a cartridge.

[MercianScribe]

Shadow! That was it!

[MercianScribe]

So what's the difference between the Diploma and the Supreme?

Just from the photos above anyway, I can't really see any between those lovely Diplomas and my Great-Grandpa's Supreme (sorry, bit of a dark photo):

 

 

Oh, and anyone any advice on opening this for the first time?! I've always just used patience and a hair drier before... but at least knowing if it's a screw in section or push in might help...?!

[grainweevil]

Nice. The burgundy is one of their Indian Ink compatible ones (with a sketch nib minus its overfeed - they made the overfeeds optional anyway from the factory - I got rid of one those a couple of months ago and regret it), which I'm pretty sure they continued making after the 75s had come out in the '70s.

 

You can tell them from the octagonal (? maybe, never actually counted the sides!) tapered section, and the rivet thing on the section threads holding the filler in. They don't usually seem to come with a cap band though, but a plain plastic bevelled 'space' where one would be...

 

That top one is cool - never seen one of those before. Looks like the long-tined steel medium italic that they also put in a lot of their Indian Ink Pen kits, but I've never seen a straight octagonal section before, or an Indian Ink Pen with a cartridge.

 

I should confess to some nib swapping shenanigans. The sketch nib was actually from a set of compatible Osmiroid dip nibs I bought new way back in my youth. Can't for the life of me remember what nib it originally came with, unfortunately. The other is a soft medium, and may have come via a completely different pen, but again, I failed to keep a record. Bad weevil. At the time I largely viewed them as ballast in comparison with the Waterman's #22 taper cap they came with.

 

The Diploma has a screw-in section, I believe. Generally, with button fillers, it seems to be the safest assumption to make. Looks a very tidy example.