What Is This?

[Ray_NEMBFV]

I came across this in an antique shop on Maine. Overall in really good condition, probably a new sac and some polishing. I did take the opportunity to dip it and play and the nib is awesome; think, paint brush with ink, incredible. I just don know what it is. Any help is appreciated. Here is what I know:

 

Stamp on barrel states 1/40. Pat Pend. Nib has 14K warranted. Made in USA. I've never had a noodle in my hand, but the unrestored nib flexes out extremely easily with some dipped ink. I haven't been able tobidentify the pattern, but it is consistent on both pieces. The box I bought it in was non-descript silk lined with felt "holder."

 

My initial post had the matching mechanical pencil but the picture was too large..

 

Any help is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Ray_NEMBFV

[corgicoupe]

That looks very much like my Waterman Ideal 0552,

[praxim]

Yes, and like mine too

 

I think that is what you have. In my case it needed only a new sac before becoming one of my favourites, although mine is not a noodle, having a fine nib I think.

 

Adding: it should say what it is on the end of the barrel. You may need good light or a little magnification to make it out if the traces have worn.

Edited July 24, 2016 by praxim

[FarmBoy]

Not a Waterman.

[praxim]

The nib wrong?

[FarmBoy]

The nib wrong?

The nib is likely correct since the pen is not a Waterman.

[praxim]

Less helpful than I imagined the answer might be.

 

I was asking whether that was the key difference, compared with other aspects in the photographs, being interested in knowing more about the subject?

 

 

Edited for clarity.

Edited July 24, 2016 by praxim

[Cryptos]

Looks like a Wahl pen to me. That's my two groats.

[Tas]

Looks like a Wahl pen to me. That's my two groats.

 

Many similarities with my beloved Wahl.

http://www.taskyprianou.com/fpn_blue_merle_wahl.jpg

[Ray_NEMBFV]

Thanks so much for the insights. My thought was Waterman as well, but no numbers anywhere on barrel end(s) - see pic (I think the pics in order it's 1. bottom fp 2. top fp. 3. bottom fp. 4 top pencil).

 

The design - lever, nib - points toward Waterman, but there's no stamp "Ideal" anywhere. I have a 52 1/2 so I don't know how bulky - wide - the barrel is supposed to be. And I don't know if/how Waterman did any mechanical pencils. Did they outsource/in-house produce? The clip also provides no clues, although no imprint or stamp, it looks like a "hand pressed" ball at the end of the clip. Looking through the loop, you can see the cuts made to the piece to get the hammer/press to make it into a ball. (couldn't get that on the phone...)

 

I'm sending it out to Aaron at Pentiques (he did a great job on my Wahl restore) so he might have some insight, but I've been just sitting and dipping with the nib and I've never dealt with so much flex before. I have to back off my own pressure to get back to the hairline because any pressure widens the line. I have other "flex" nibs, but I have to "push" them to open the tines. This just easily spreads with little effort.

 

Anyway, thanks again for the help, and any further ideas where to look is also helpful (and yes, I will start looking up dimensions for Waterman 52's ect.).

PS.. And I thought Wahl too, but it has a black section at the end of the barrel, not the gold. And not that it means anything, but the balance feels "right" when I hold it at the screw lines, not holding the black section....

Edited July 24, 2016 by Ray_NEMBFV

[corgicoupe]

It looks even more similar to my Criterion pen, but it has "criterion" engraved on the clip and "filler" engraved on the lever. The nib has "warranted" & 14k on the nib, also the #4. The barrel and cap have a pattern that is similar to yours. The nib is flexible, and Danny Fudge said it constitutes the major value of the pen.

[FarmBoy]

Note the pen does not have a lever box.

[corgicoupe]

My lever is longer, but I'm not familiar with the term "lever box".

[FarmBoy]

My lever is longer, but I'm not familiar with the term "lever box".

Look closely at your Waterman and you will see that the lever mechanism is housed in a box that is staked to the barrel. Completely different than the pen the OP shows.

 

If I had to guess, I would say Ingersoll pen.

[Ray_NEMBFV]

Thanks for the help (and yes, every new lead, I'm looking it up). Anyway, here is a close up of my Waterman 52 1/2 with the lever "box" and my "new" pen - no box, but maybe just because of the way it blends in with the metal work surrounding it, but definitely not a box... I can' t say I've ever heard of an Ingersoll pen.

 

Note: The first is my pen, the second and third are my Waterman's box.... And I'm using a loop in front of an iPhone....better than nothing..

 

Thanks again,

 

Ray

 

PS: It may be nothing, but on my other levers, I always post it so that the lever and clip line up and match the nib. This pen has the lever on the opposite side of the nib. Don't know if that means anything (still dipping with it - have to get it off soon).. Thanks again...

Edited July 26, 2016 by Ray_NEMBFV

[Greenie]

My comment is probably not helpful in the way you were hoping, but...

 

The pen is a very nice example of a "no name" in a check (or "Gothic") pattern with a nice warranted nib. A lot of warranted nibs are great. It is where the rubber meets the road (so to speak) and it sounds like you have a very nice one to enjoy.

 

The clip is a Z clip with no name, and these were seen on a lot of lower tier pens. See repair and info link HERE at Richard Binder's excellent site. In my own collection, I see unstamped Z clips on Ingersoll twist fill pens (in celluloid, not the Bakelite), Postal Reservoir pens,and Autofiller. Identical clips, but stamped with brands are seen on some of my large Flat Top Eagle branded pens. Lincoln, Gold Medal, and Diamond Point used these, but marked with a brand. And these were used (not sure which are stamped and which smooth) on many of the Chicago manufacturers, many attributed to National Pen Products of Chicago.

 

I don't think a positive ID can be made at all, and thus we are left with "No Name" pens. Some are quite nice to use, which in the end, is all that matters!

 

Enjoy! Nice find!

[Ray_NEMBFV]

I can live with that. I haven't even sent it out for a new sac yet just having fun dipping it. I have a few "flex" and "semi" flex nibs, but I literally have to bring the pressure to where I'm dragging the nib on the page to get back to the hairline. As soon as there's any pressure at all, the tines drift apart and the line gets wider. This is the most sensitive of the flex nibs that I have. It's a lot of fun, but takes some getting used to. Unlike some nibs that are advertised as flex and you have to grind the nib into the surface under the page to "flex" it for line variation. $95 and a few more for a sac and polishing and won't have a problem using it for an EDC...

 

Thanks to all for your feedback and input.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Ray_NEMBFV

[sidthecat]

It's a little treasure. They're only useful as things to write with.