How Could A Nib Melt?!

[skyeph]

So this afternoon I decided to clean some of my fountain pens and nibs. I bought this lovely Aikin Lambert telescope dip pen which has a No 4 nib from a local antique store the a few weeks ago as the price was a steal and I haven't really cleaned the pen thoroughly. Soo... I cleaned up the metal to the best of my ability then on to the nib. I ran the nib through an open flame on the stove as I usually do on most of my nibs and the worst thing happened. The tip of the nib melted! Now I searched online for the melting point of gold and it is quite high and I thought what if there was iridium on it but the melting point was high as well. I'll most likely send this somewhere to a nibmeister to get it fixed again but I was just wondering how could this have happened.

 

I don't want to post a picture of it but if you guys want to see it I'll go ahead. I hope no one will be as clumsy as I have today.

[FarmBoy]

Why would you expose a nib to an open flame?

[Chrissy]

Why would you expose a nib to an open flame?

+1 I also wondered why?

 

"I ran the nib through an open flame on the stove as I usually do on most of my nibs and the worst thing happened. The tip of the nib melted!"

 

[skyeph]

I've read somewhere that it would clean it if I quickly passed it through the flame and I've done this on most of my pens and nibs but this one just melted quickly..

 

Lesson learned the hard way.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Skyee

[drop_m]

I've cleaned several gold nibs and i've never had any trouble using just plain water, a toothbrush and occasionally a jeweler's polishing rouge cloth to pull out some of the old shine.

apart from the melting problem you've had, remember that applying strong heat on a gold nib you could change irreparably the strenght and the flexibility of the material itself, so beware!

[tinta]

You say that you have tour run nibs through your stove's flames before, "as you usually do", but for what reason?

 

Were you not able to clean the nibs with just plain water? Or clean with a weak solution of water + detergent? Or even cleaning with a solution of clear ammonia + water?

All these are accepted methods of cleaning (flushing ) nibs.

 

Did the tipping fall off?

Was it (slowly or quickly) passed over the flames on a gas range or even an accetaline torch ?

Must have been at a high temperature. Tipping is usually electro-welded to either a gold, a steel or even a titanium nib body.

Please send us a picture of your nib(s) after this flamin' mishap.

Edited July 22, 2016 by tinta

[Goudy]

You say that you have tour run nibs through your stove's flames before, "as you usually do", but for what reason?

 

Some people use a flame to burn the protective lacquer off a new steel dip nib: http://www.scribblers.co.uk/resources/preparing-nibs/

 

But that's for modern steel dip nibs. Gold dip nibs didn't have that lacquer because they don't corrode. The most I sometimes have to do when I receive a gold nib is clean it in a mild detergent to remove the oil from handling.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Goudy

[tinta]

Goudy, I can understand the removal of lacquer by a flame for a dip-pen nib.

 

"Some people may use a flame to burn the protective lacquer off a new steel dip nib: http://www.scribbler...preparing-nibs/"

 

But for gold nibbed fountain pens a different cleaning regimen is recommended, like the one that you use.

[alfredop]

I agree with the other poster, it is not necessary to clean a nib to use a flame; anyway now the damage occurred,and actually this should not be happened, unless the temperature of the flame, for some reason was out of a safety range. Please post a photo of the nib.

 

Alfredo

[skyeph]

Thanks for the replies on letting me know how to properly clean gold nibs. I'll be sure to not do that anymore on any of my gold nibs.

 

To answer you question Tinta, it was quickly passed through the flame but I either did it slow and thought I did it quickly or the fire was too hot (which I don't remember because all I remember was: "What have I done!?")

 

Here are the pictures as requested. Don't hate me too much.

 

 

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq23/Skye_El-Rahi/IMG_0283_zpssug2fx4k.jpg

 

 

 

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq23/Skye_El-Rahi/IMG_0284_zpsonvinusl.jpg

 

 

 

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq23/Skye_El-Rahi/IMG_0285_zpsltdydrjn.jpg

 

[dcwaites]

Ok, from the colouring the nib was heated far too hot. It was heated till it was well over glowing red-hot. That will remove any temper, and in your case, has melted the end.

 

It also appears that the nib may have been made of brass, with a much lower melting point ( 900C) than steel (1400C).

 

If you are running it through a flame to remove the lacquer coating, it only needs to be very brief, less than a second or so for a normal gas flame.

 

If you want to remove any lacquer (and I find I don't need to), then a bit of alcohol on a cotton bud will be all you need.

[skyeph]

 

If you are running it through a flame to remove the lacquer coating, it only needs to be very brief, less than a second or so for a normal gas flame.

 

 

Thank you for your insight. The gas flame was too hot I suppose. Was it common for Aiken Lambert nibs or nibs of that time period to be made of brass?

[SpecTP]

I've never ever used heat to clean metal. I use P21S finish restorer and it works perfectly every time.

[kurus]

Hello Skyee,

I'm sorry for this issue with your nib and, apart the fact that cleaning a nib with an open flame is recommended only for dipping nibs that usually have some wax on it, lets try to figure out why this happened the possibilities are two: your point is not iridium or your flame is too hot.

Now, assuming that your flame isn't hot enough to melt iridium/gold the only lasting thing is that you have not an iridium point.

Since it melted so fast it could be stain that even if it doesn't make sense could be explained with a previous owner that tried to reball a too much consumed point.

If the pen is brand new I would immediately contact the manufacturer explaining what happened because even if they propably won't fix your pen they can possibly fix the problem in production.

 

I hope to have been usefull,

Ciro

[Goudy]

 

Was it common for Aiken Lambert nibs or nibs of that time period to be made of brass?

 

I have many Aikin Lambert dip nibs (they're one of my favourite nib makers) and they're all gold. I've never seen a brass one.

 

The melting point of gold is 1064 °C, according to Google, so only slightly higher than that of brass, and way below steel. Iridium is 2447 °C, by the way, so the tipping may have survived, if that's any comfort.

[skyeph]

I agree with you. When I wrote with the Aikin Lambert nib it was very nice and I've been searching for more ever since. Time to hit the other antique stores in my area!

[bfoutch]

Sorry to read about your damaged nib. Just for future reference, here are a few temperature charts to show why this probably happened:

 

Melting Point of Gold Alloys

24K = 1063 C

18K = 915 - 963 C

14K = 829 - 874 C

10K = 881 - 891 C

for reference, stainless steel melts at 1510 C

 

Flame Temperature of Most Common Household Stove Gasses

Butane = 1970 C

Methane = 1950 C (primary component of natural gas)

Propane = 1980 C

 

Nibs are thin and lack mass, so they heat up to full temperature very quickly. I think it is easy to see from the above charts that gas flame cleaning of nibs, especially gold alloy nibs, is exceptionally risky since a simple subtraction reveals that the flame temperature of most stoves can be 1000 degrees C or more over the melt temperature of the three common gold alloys listed above.

Edited July 25, 2016 by bfoutch

[Sasha Royale]

Do we know, for certain, that it was a gold nib ? Or was it gold plated ? Or gold sputtered ?

 

Many thanks for the "word-to-the-wise".

[Gloucesterman]

Thanks for the replies on letting me know how to properly clean gold nibs. I'll be sure to not do that anymore on any of my gold nibs.

 

To answer you question Tinta, it was quickly passed through the flame but I either did it slow and thought I did it quickly or the fire was too hot (which I don't remember because all I remember was: "What have I done!?")

 

Here are the pictures as requested. Don't hate me too much.

 

 

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq23/Skye_El-Rahi/IMG_0283_zpssug2fx4k.jpg

 

 

 

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq23/Skye_El-Rahi/IMG_0284_zpsonvinusl.jpg

 

 

 

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq23/Skye_El-Rahi/IMG_0285_zpsltdydrjn.jpg

 

 

The pictures above show an antique dip pen/pencil(?) combo, I think. I have never seen one before. - always learning something new!

 

My first question is - was the point marked 14K?

I have several of the simple old ones, including an Aiken Lambert, with black something-or-other, gold, or mother of pearl ended) dip pens and none of them had gold nibs.

 

My second question is what was on the nib that was "so dirty" that you thought you had to clean it with a flame? If there was something stuck to, or "covering" the nib, it may have been of a material that was flammable and burned at a higher temperature than normal when you immersed it in a open flame.

 

Finally, if the nib did not say it was 14k it probably wasn't. And unless the nib was something very special, and I COULD be wrong, I don't think many of those types of pen came with iridium tipped nibs anyway.

 

BTW, it looks like a beautiful pen so get a new nib and start writing...

Edited July 26, 2016 by brgmarketing

[Vintagepens]

Well, that's something I've not seen before.

 

Aikin Lambert nibs were always made of alloy gold, typically 14K. They were always tipped, as well. They were not typically marked as to their gold content. This was not required 120+ years ago, when the destroyed nib was made.

 

The nib in the pictures is a total loss. Repair would involve total reconstruction at a cost several times the value of a replacement nib.