Is There A Fp Database/matrix?

[laurahead108]

Hi,

 

OK, odd question. Is there a web site or data base in which you can plug in the model of a specific fountain pen and it will it then identify other pens that have the same dimensions? I turn out to be a terrible prima donna -- my TWSBI Diamond MIni is the only pen that ever feels exactly right (write), but I want to branch out. I've been checking the dimensions for each candidate, and started dreaming of a Giant FP Database in the Sky...

 

Thank you,

Laura

[carlos.q]

The closest thing that I have seen is this one:

 

http://nibs.com/pen_measures/

[ac12]

Laura,

 

One problem for measurements is the shape of the pen. I ran into this exact problem when I was making a spreadsheet of the sizes of my own pens. And thus I have to redo all my diameter measurements.

Example, the Parker 45 or Lamy 2000 is a tapered pen. The diameter is different as you move along the section. The only way to get a measurement is to have 2 numbers; the distance from the tip of the nib to the measure point, and the diameter at that point, and repeat this for several different distances.

Even the barrel diameter is a problem as there could be a significant taper or contour of the pen. One example is the Parker Urban, which has a coke bottle shape with a narrow waist, totally unlike the tapered Parker 45 or Lamy 2000 or the straight/cylindrical Lamy cp1. Granted the Parker Urban is more the exception than the rule.

 

The related problem is that the section/grip of different pens are of different lengths. The section of my Parker Classic is MUCH longer than the section of my Parker Vacumatic. In fact, the section on some of my pens is so short, that I hold the pen on the barrel, and not on the section/grip. So the section diameter then means nothing to me. Couple the different section lengths to a tappered section (as above) and where do you measure? A longer tapered section could have a significant difference between the front/narrowest part and the back/largest part of the section.

 

Related to the section length is the visible length of the nib. A hooded or semi-hooded pen such as the Parker 51 or Lamy 2000 will have a very short visible nib compared to an open nib pen like a Parker Sonnet or Pelikan M-200. Even with the open nib pen, there is a difference in the length of the nibs. This results in a different distance from the tip of the nib to the beginning of the section. On a hooded nib, the diameter at the front of the section is quite small, and most no one would hold the pen that close to the tip of the nib. So the front diameter of the section in that case is essentially a useless number.

 

The only method that I have seen that deals with these issues is one that I saw in someones website/posting. Take the diameter of the pen at 2 specific distances from the tip of the nib; 2.5 and 4cm from the tip of the nib. This will account for a short/long section, a tapered section/body and a short/long nib. In my case I use 3.5 and 5cm from the tip, as my fingers are usually at 3.5cm and my thumb at 5cm from the tip of the nib. But is 2.5+4cm a better choice than 3.5+5cm? It all depends on how YOU hold the pen.

 

Then you have the odd balls. I like slimline pens (about 10mm diameter), and I do NOT like FAT pens.

The TWSBI Eco is NOT a slimline, yet it feels comfortable in my hand, and I cannot tell you why.

 

Two other variables also come into play with how a pen feels in my/your hand; weight and balance.

 

Weight for me can be a deal breaker. I prefer pens less than 20 grams, and preferably down at 15 grams. My pens that weight more than 20 grams (total body+cap), I use them unposted, to try to get the working weight (body only) under 20 grams. I hard cut-off any pen over 32 grams. I can write with a heavy pen, 20 to 32 grams, for about a page, and that is it. Heavy pens make my hand feel tired when writing for LONG writing sessions of MANY pages, so they are restricted to journal writing of less than one page. So you want total weight of body+cap (posted) and body only (unposted).

 

Balance is VERY important to me. I cannot write with a pen that feels tail heavy in my hand.

Example, ALL of my Lamys (Safari, Vista, AlStar, pur, cp1) feel tail heavy when posted. I have to use these pens unposted for the pen to feel balanced in my hand. So even though the Safari is a relatively light pen, the cap when posted makes the pen feel tail heavy and unbalanced. What I don't understand is several of the Lamy's are specifically designed to be posted (pur and cp1), yet the pen becomes tail heavy (in my hand) when posted...so why bother designing the pen to be posted???

BTW, the TWSBI Eco that I like, I write with it unposted, else it becomes tail heavy.

I have no idea how to measure balance, as I think it depends on how the pen sits in your hand, the angle of the pen, and how much of the pens weight is above the web of your hand, presuming a standard tripod grip.

Edited July 17, 2016 by ac12

[laurahead108]

Laura,

 

One problem for measurements is the shape of the pen. I ran into this exact problem when I was making a spreadsheet of the sizes of my own pens. And thus I have to redo all my diameter measurements.

Example, the Parker 45 or Lamy 2000 is a tapered pen. The diameter is different as you move along the section. The only way to get a measurement is to have 2 numbers; the distance from the tip of the nib to the measure point, and the diameter at that point, and repeat this for several different distances.

Even the barrel diameter is a problem as there could be a significant taper or contour of the pen. One example is the Parker Urban, which has a coke bottle shape with a narrow waist, totally unlike the tapered Parker 45 or Lamy 2000 or the straight/cylindrical Lamy cp1. Granted the Parker Urban is more the exception than the rule.

 

The related problem is that the section/grip of different pens are of different lengths. The section of my Parker Classic is MUCH longer than the section of my Parker Vacumatic. In fact, the section on some of my pens is so short, that I hold the pen on the barrel, and not on the section/grip. So the section diameter then means nothing to me. Couple the different section lengths to a tappered section (as above) and where do you measure? A longer tapered section could have a significant difference between the front/narrowest part and the back/largest part of the section.

 

Related to the section length is the visible length of the nib. A hooded or semi-hooded pen such as the Parker 51 or Lamy 2000 will have a very short visible nib compared to an open nib pen like a Parker Sonnet or Pelikan M-200. Even with the open nib pen, there is a difference in the length of the nibs. This results in a different distance from the tip of the nib to the beginning of the section. On a hooded nib, the diameter at the front of the section is quite small, and most no one would hold the pen that close to the tip of the nib. So the front diameter of the section in that case is essentially a useless number.

 

The only method that I have seen that deals with these issues is one that I saw in someones website/posting. Take the diameter of the pen at 2 specific distances from the tip of the nib; 2.5 and 4cm from the tip of the nib. This will account for a short/long section, a tapered section/body and a short/long nib. In my case I use 3.5 and 5cm from the tip, as my fingers are usually at 3.5cm and my thumb at 5cm from the tip of the nib. But is 2.5+4cm a better choice than 3.5+5cm? It all depends on how YOU hold the pen.

 

Then you have the odd balls. I like slimline pens (about 10mm diameter), and I do NOT like FAT pens.

The TWSBI Eco is NOT a slimline, yet it feels comfortable in my hand, and I cannot tell you why.

 

Two other variables also come into play with how a pen feels in my/your hand; weight and balance.

 

Weight for me can be a deal breaker. I prefer pens less than 20 grams, and preferably down at 15 grams. My pens that weight more than 20 grams (total body+cap), I use them unposted, to try to get the working weight (body only) under 20 grams. I hard cut-off any pen over 32 grams. I can write with a heavy pen, 20 to 32 grams, for about a page, and that is it. Heavy pens make my hand feel tired when writing for LONG writing sessions of MANY pages, so they are restricted to journal writing of less than one page. So you want total weight of body+cap (posted) and body only (unposted).

 

Balance is VERY important to me. I cannot write with a pen that feels tail heavy in my hand.

Example, ALL of my Lamys (Safari, Vista, AlStar, pur, cp1) feel tail heavy when posted. I have to use these pens unposted for the pen to feel balanced in my hand. So even though the Safari is a relatively light pen, the cap when posted makes the pen feel tail heavy and unbalanced. What I don't understand is several of the Lamy's are specifically designed to be posted (pur and cp1), yet the pen becomes tail heavy (in my hand) when posted...so why bother designing the pen to be posted???

BTW, the TWSBI Eco that I like, I write with it unposted, else it becomes tail heavy.

I have no idea how to measure balance, as I think it depends on how the pen sits in your hand, the angle of the pen, and how much of the pens weight is above the web of your hand, presuming a standard tripod grip.

You have hit the nail on the head. Thank you for such a detailed response. There are so many factors to consider, and even then, it's a still a (bleep) shoot. I guess I'll just wait and go to pen shows to try things out. I'm with you, I hate heavy, fat and tail-heavy pens, I have small hands and write for hours and cramp up with anything over 20+ grams. With the exception of my Platinum 3776, but why? These are the mysteries.

[laurahead108]

The closest thing that I have seen is this one:

 

http://nibs.com/pen_measures/

 

Very helpful, thank you!

[ac12]

 

You have hit the nail on the head. Thank you for such a detailed response. There are so many factors to consider, and even then, it's a still a (bleep) shoot. I guess I'll just wait and go to pen shows to try things out. I'm with you, I hate heavy, fat and tail-heavy pens, I have small hands and write for hours and cramp up with anything over 20+ grams. With the exception of my Platinum 3776, but why? These are the mysteries.

 

 

 

Small hands, that's me. I was also brought up in the era of slimline pens, and used pencils a LOT, so my hand is used to the smaller diameter pens. Here are my favorite slimlines.

- Cross, Century (the one from 1980s); 8.8mm section, 9.8mm body. (cartridge/converter)

- Cross, Classic Century (current production); 6.6mm section 8.1mm body. This one borders on being too thin for me, which creates another problem. (Cartridge only, or make a bulb converter)

- Esterbrook, LJ (Ladies J); 9.1mm section, 10.7mm body. (Lever fill sac)

- Parker Classic; 8.4mm section, 9.5mm body. (cartridge/converter)

- Reform 1745; 9mm section, 10mm body. (Piston)

- Sheaffer School/cartridge pen (from the 1960s); 9.1mm section, 10.2mm body (Cartridge only)

 

The section diameters above, are subject to my stated issue with measuring them. I have not remeasured at 3.5+5cm from the tip of the nib.

The barrel of these pens are smaller than the sections of some of my FATer pens.

 

If you are writing at home, one option to consider is a desk pen. I find my desk pens more comfortable to write with than the similar clip pens. But obviously, they are not as portable. Here are a few of my desk pens, though not all have a base.

Current:

- Lamy, joy. (no base) The joy is basically a Safari with a long taper/tail.

- Pilot, 200. (no base, have to use the Platinum base) (feels just a bit fat, I would like it about 1mm smaller in diameter)

 

Vintage:

- Esterbrook

- Parker: 51, 45, duofold (the 51 looks similar in diameter to the Pilot, but feels better in my hand. No idea why ???)

- Sheaffer, Touchdown

 

To help with your hand cramp, hold the pen with a LIGHT grip. In college I used to hold the pen TIGHT, real TIGHT, and my hand would cramp up in about 15-30 minutes. And after than I had to keep shaking my hand, to keep the cramp from getting so BAD that I could not write. Today with a light grip, I can write for 3 hours without my hand cramping up on me. By light, I mean, someone can pull the pen out from my hand, without jerking my hand.

 

If the pen is tail heavy, I have to grip the pen harder to hold the nib down on the paper.

Edited July 18, 2016 by ac12

[Wahl]

Vintage pens can be large yet light, as they have very little metal.

 

The Parker Duofold Senior as shown in my avatar weight all of 19 grams (without cap).

[laurahead108]

Vintage pens can be large yet light, as they have very little metal.

 

The Parker Duofold Senior as shown in my avatar weight all of 19 grams (without cap).

 

Good to know, thank you!

[laurahead108]

  

 

 

Small hands, that's me. I was also brought up in the era of slimline pens, and used pencils a LOT, so my hand is used to the smaller diameter pens. Here are my favorite slimlines.

- Cross, Century (the one from 1980s); 8.8mm section, 9.8mm body. (cartridge/converter)

- Cross, Classic Century (current production); 6.6mm section 8.1mm body. This one borders on being too thin for me, which creates another problem. (Cartridge only, or make a bulb converter)

- Esterbrook, LJ (Ladies J); 9.1mm section, 10.7mm body. (Lever fill sac)

- Parker Classic; 8.4mm section, 9.5mm body. (cartridge/converter)

- Reform 1745; 9mm section, 10mm body. (Piston)

- Sheaffer School/cartridge pen (from the 1960s); 9.1mm section, 10.2mm body (Cartridge only)

 

The section diameters above, are subject to my stated issue with measuring them. I have not remeasured at 3.5+5cm from the tip of the nib.

The barrel of these pens are smaller than the sections of some of my FATer pens.

 

If you are writing at home, one option to consider is a desk pen. I find my desk pens more comfortable to write with than the similar clip pens. But obviously, they are not as portable. Here are a few of my desk pens, though not all have a base.

Current:

- Lamy, joy. (no base) The joy is basically a Safari with a long taper/tail.

- Pilot, 200. (no base, have to use the Platinum base) (feels just a bit fat, I would like it about 1mm smaller in diameter)

 

Vintage:

- Esterbrook

- Parker: 51, 45, duofold (the 51 looks similar in diameter to the Pilot, but feels better in my hand. No idea why ???)

- Sheaffer, Touchdown

 

To help with your hand cramp, hold the pen with a LIGHT grip. In college I used to hold the pen TIGHT, real TIGHT, and my hand would cramp up in about 15-30 minutes. And after than I had to keep shaking my hand, to keep the cramp from getting so BAD that I could not write. Today with a light grip, I can write for 3 hours without my hand cramping up on me. By light, I mean, someone can pull the pen out from my hand, without jerking my hand.

 

If the pen is tail heavy, I have to grip the pen harder to hold the nib down on the paper.

 

Thank you for this - -very helpful!

[pajaro]

I also have small hands. I like the Parker 51 demi, the Sheaffer school pen and the Montblanc 144. Gives me choices in three different price ranges. These pens are light.

[laurahead108]

I also have small hands. I like the Parker 51 demi, the Sheaffer school pen and the Montblanc 144. Gives me choices in three different price ranges. These pens are light.

I'll check those out, thank you!

[Otter1]

There is also John Gleason's huge pen database that you can get from David Nishimura's site here: http://www.vintagepens.com/pen_measurements.shtml

I've used it myself to find a pen that wasn't too slim or too thick.

 

-Otter1