Pelikan Problems

[Bluey]

I'm sorry anyone is ever disappointed with a new Pelikan. But, I had to share my outstanding experience. Until this year, all of my Pelikans have been vintage. Most of them from the 50s and earlier. They are wonderful. Unfortunately, my slightly arthritic hands aren't comfortable writing with them for long periods, and I write much of the day. This year I bought an M600, hoping the larger size would be more comfortable. It was much more comfortable. It wrote beautifully. I then bought an M800. It was even more comfortable and wrote beautifully. I prefer an italic nib, so they went to Pendleton Brown for nib work. They wrote beautifully. Now they are exquisite. The quality control is exquisite. One final note, I have purchased three new Sailors. Each required extensive work to write an acceptable line. I also don't like the hard plastic. In closing, I have about 15 Pelikans, two of them purchased new. They are all extraordinary writers. Their quality control is unquestionable. Except maybe an occasional vintage pen from another manufacturer, I will buy nothing but Pelikan. My experience tells me that any unsatisfactory experience with Pelikan is outside the norm.

That's quite a tale of hope. The first 2 vintage Pelikans I tried the nib of the first one shattered within minutes.

I think you're extremely optimistic about Pelikans. On the balance of probabilities, I would be much more inclined to put my faith in Sailor than a Pelikan(especially where nibs are concerned) - tales of woe are commonplace with Pelikan whereas with Sailor they're not.

It's curious why you would buy more than 1 Sailor if they all needed work to get them to write .

 

 

I can't really see the point of buying more than one Pelikan because all you're doing is buying more than one coloured barrel(and possibly size too, although i would think it was best to choose the size that you prefer first). It would be like buying a Pilot Capless in lots of different colours because they all have the same design - I suppose that may appeal to some people.

You do know that the nibs are swappable don't you?

Edited October 12, 2016 by Bluey

[inkstainedruth]

That's quite a tale of hope. The first 2 vintage Pelikans I tried the nib of the first one shattered within minutes.

 

 

I have 5 birds, but only one of them is "modern" (the rest are older models from the 1990s or earlier). The original M200 Café Crème had to have the nib tweaked because it skipped, no matter what ink I put in it. I lost it and was lucky to find a replacement with an IM nib (the first one had a B nib) but that nib was a complete firehose. I had to get a (tuned) replacement B nib, and also have the IM nib tweaked.

My other Pelikans, even the OB nibbed 400 from the 1950s, are wet writers but I've had no other issues with any of them.

Ruth Morrison aka inkstainedruth

[fplover01]

I believe that here a personal negative experience with one pen, is being used to draw a general conclusion referring to all Pelikan pens. This is inaccurrate.

[Bluey]

Yes that would be unfair, if it were even slightly true.

I'm not just going by one(it's actually 3 pens) pen, but what I read on here and other forums in comparison with other brands.

 

Glad you've had no issues with your other pels, Ruth. They are known for being somewhat wet, and mine is too despite it's babys bottom issue (if you drag the pen along using it's own weight, a wet pen will have no trouble leaving a mark, but mine needs to be encourages to make contact with the paper so depending on the ink sometimes no line is left at all).

Edited October 12, 2016 by Bluey

[biancitwo]

That's quite a tale of hope. The first 2 vintage Pelikans I tried the nib of the first one shattered within minutes.

I think you're extremely optimistic about Pelikans. On the balance of probabilities, I would be much more inclined to put my faith in Sailor than a Pelikan(especially where nibs are concerned) - tales of woe are commonplace with Pelikan whereas with Sailor they're not.

It's curious why you would buy more than 1 Sailor if they all needed work to get them to write .

 

 

I can't really see the point of buying more than one Pelikan because all you're doing is buying more than one coloured barrel(and possibly size too, although i would think it was best to choose the size that you prefer first). It would be like buying a Pilot Capless in lots of different colours because they all have the same design - I suppose that may appeal to some people.

You do know that the nibs are swappable don't you?

 

My story is not optimism, it is my experience. I bought two more Sailors because of endorsements like yours. I stopped after three attempts. Besides, as I said, I decided I don't like the feel of the hard plastic. The nib on my 1911L is wonderful after Pendleton Brown finished with it.

 

I didn't choose the right size initially, because I wanted vintage Pelikans, which are wonderful, and I didn't know a larger size would suit my mildly arthritic hand.

 

And, if you think all Pelikans are the same, you have little experience with them. My 100 is not the same as my 100Ns, which are different from my 400s, 120s, 140s, 400NN and so on. I also have many nib sizes and inks. The variety is engaging and fun, and presents differently on the paper. Otherwise we just buy one pen and stop. No thank you. And, though my M600 and M800 are better suited to my hand, I will never stop using my vintage Pelikans, all of which are superb.

[Bluey]

And, if you think all Pelikans are the same, you have little experience with them.

Modern ones are if you look. They're just the same one design regurgitated with different colours, and with an extortionate price slapped on them. And the vintage one's aren't exactly that different from each either (look to something like vintage Parker who did different designs, even if the original idea didn't come from them. Pelikans don't have anywhere near that variety, being mostly the same).

I prefer to focus on having a broad range from many manufacturers covering as many styles as possible for the broadest experience. As I have a Pelikan m600, I have effectively got all Pelikans that I will ever need.

 

Sorry to hear about your arthritis.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Bluey

[Bo Bo Olson]

Bluey you are wrong....your 600 unless it's a short ...400 size '90 one is a semi-nail.

Semi-vintage '97-82 is a springy 'true' regular flex.....that of course you can find an your collection.

How ever, the '50-65 400, 400n and 400nn have great stubbish nibs that are semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex........a completely different animal than the modern 600.

 

Second any Vintage German Oblique from the '50-65 era, Soennecken, MB, Geha, Kaweco, Osmia/OFC or Pelikan is worth having in you have a a great pattern in you combine the stub, the semi/maxi semi flex with the oblique grind.

No modern Oblique is worth wasting money on; semi-vintage either. It has to be semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex.

 

To say having a 600 is enough of Pelikan is like saying having a modern second 'generation' Sonnet is all one needs of Parker. Or a P-25 is all one needs of Parker....Don't need a Vac, or a P-51/45/75.

Of course it could be you are a nail only user...then the 800 is a nail. Or a 400 with a D nib....the nail's nail.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[Bluey]

Bluey you are wrong....your 600 unless it's a short ...400 size '90 one is a semi-nail.

Semi-vintage '97-82 is a springy 'true' regular flex.....that of course you can find an your collection.

How ever, the '50-65 400, 400n and 400nn have great stubbish nibs that are semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex........a completely different animal than the modern 600.

 

Second any Vintage German Oblique from the '50-65 era, Soennecken, MB, Geha, Kaweco, Osmia/OFC or Pelikan is worth having in you have a a great pattern in you combine the stub, the semi/maxi semi flex with the oblique grind.

No modern Oblique is worth wasting money on; semi-vintage either. It has to be semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex.

 

To say having a 600 is enough of Pelikan is like saying having a modern second 'generation' Sonnet is all one needs of Parker. Or a P-25 is all one needs of Parker....Don't need a Vac, or a P-51/45/75.

Of course it could be you are a nail only user...then the 800 is a nail. Or a 400 with a D nib....the nail's nail.

That's like saying the Lamy Safari in F is a different pen to the Lamy Safari in M. Meh.

 

Besides, I have soft nibs from other manufacturers. And given Pelikan's reputation for nibs, that's how I would prefer it to stay.

[Bo Bo Olson]

There is a big difference between a a Japanese 'soft' nib and semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex....which are not mushy, like 'soft' nibs.

Of course you could be calling certain Swan or Wyern nibs 'soft' Or English Parker or Sheaffer which are different than US ones, with out knowing much about various flex levels.

 

 

For someone with one modern Pelikan you certainly have made up your mind....and don't wish to expend your knowledge.

Fine.

[Bluey]

I don't want a fountain pen for flex.

I have a large range of dip pen nibs which I use for copperplate ranging from Hunt 22s to Gillott 303s, and these do the job a lot better

[Bo Bo Olson]

Semi-flex is not and has never been a "superflex" nib, much less flexible like a Hunt 99-100-101 or Gillette 303. The typical 'noobie' equating the word semi-flex with "Flex/superflex" nibs.

 

Semi-flex....almost flex.....a nib that spreads it's tines 3 X like a 'true' regular flex with half that pressure...............It is not designed for fancy writing, though an occasional descender can be made a bit fancy if one presses. Do read my signature.

Maxi-semi-flex, half of that or needs only 1/4th the pressure of a well mashed 'true' regular flex. Easier to get a bit fancy.....but is not a Superflex!

True regular flex, Semi&Maxi are in a 3X max tine spread set.

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Superflex 4-5, 6 or seldom 7 X tine spread over a light down stroke, with descending pressure needs to do so.

 

Superflex, first stage; Easy Full Flex....1/2 of the pressure needed to reach max of 3 X with a maxi-semi-flex or 1/8th the pressure to max a true regular flex, Wet Noodle 1/2 of that or 1/16th needed to mash a true regular flex.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle....even less pressure needed. Which I don't have....nor need.

 

Yes, I do know that the better most flexible dip pen nibs make a wet noodle look uncooked. I have a fair assortment of such nibs.

 

 

My medium-large light and nimble 605 has a '1954 400's semi-flex stubbish B nib in it, in it is the better nib, than the modern characterless fat & blobby semi-nail BB nib that was in it. A number of nibs can give writing flair and character, including nail; italics, stubs or CI's, or semi/maxi-semi-flex and that in oblique, or dip pens.

 

There are also a lot of dull boring nibs to be had in nail, semi-nail, 'true' regular flex......or 'Springy' nibs like the Japanese Falcon or 1980's and later MB nibs. There are 'American Bump Under' semi-flex nibs from second tier German pens of the '60's that are not as characterful as the stubbish nibs of the major companies; Soennecken, MB, Kaweco, Geha, Osmia and Pelikan of the '50-65 era; because they are not stubs or stubbish nibs with a bit of flex.

 

I get automatic flair to my script with out having to do any funny twisting with hand, arm, or hanging on chandeliers. Flair not Spencerian. In it is not a 'flex' on the pen cup, if there is an Earthquake in California Dip Pen Noodle.

 

The medium large 600 is a very nicely balanced if posted, pen with a nice girth. Do buy a good semi-flex nib for it, if you want a bit more fancy buy an Oblique nib....I suggest an OB in the sweet spot is wider, so it is easier to use and in 1/2 a width like all vintage nibs over modern, so is a writing nib....not a signature nib.

 

In various makers of that era I have 2 OBB's, 5 OB's, 3 OM's, 3 OF's (Due to pure luck I have one each with @ 15 degree and 30 degree grinds in each of those widths....which does make a difference to patterns)....I think an OEF would be too narrow to really show off the Oblique semi/maxi-semi-flex nib with.

 

I also have what to my eyes is a OBBB, in the nib was not marked in between '51 and 54 by Pelikan and being a 500 has a rolled gold overlay, they did not scratch that up to say what width it was. It is a maxi-semi-flex with a 30 degree grind. Now That is a Signature Pen.

 

Did I mention the medium-small but Standard long posting Pelikan 140 is semi-flex....The standard sized 400 is also a very well balanced posted pen. It took me a couple of years to chose the medium large 400nn...which holds a ton more ink than any other Pelikan as a tad better balanced than the 400. It is the same width as the 400.

 

Which is better balanced of the medium-large's; the 400nn or the 600? IMO the 400nn, but the 600 is a completely different pen because of its 'wider' girth. It too has good balance....@ as good a balance as a P-51 or the medium-long (better nibbed than the Large later version) '50-60's 146.

 

Of course I grew up in the day of the Standard and Medium-long pens.....when a Large pen was as scarce as hen's teeth....back then there was only Sheafer's PFM as Large (very seldom...I never saw one back in the day) & the 149 Giant pens. The 146 was still a medium-long pen.

 

Those who grew up later had the misfortune of growing up thinking a clunky Large pen was normal. Many of those have religious problems in posting Standard or Medium-Large pens as they should be, to be balanced, so complain they are too small.

IMO They don't know what good balance is either....in the only Large pen I've run across with good balance was the thin Snorkel. Yes, posted it has great balance......top tier vintage pens had to have great balance or no one would buy one. It certainly was a shock to me to find out it was as long as a Safari. I thought it a medium-large like the P-51. The Snorkel has great balance...posted.