Ranting And Raving (Sort Of Disappointed With Pens)

[Cassotto]

When I was at school and in my first years at university I always used a pen. I had two, one after the other, both of them cheap plastic pens, very student-like looking pens that I used with blue cartridges. They always worked to perfection, and didn't mind some lack of use during the summer holidays, because they started to write again almost immediately afterwards, and if I stopped using them was because in both cases the plastic cap cracked and wouldn't hold in place any more. Despite their cheapness, they put up with anything. Not that I treated them roughly, but I wasn't too careful, either. I never ever cleaned them. But they left great memories.

After this, because I happened not to like a replacement pen I got, I stopped using pens for a long time. It was less than two years ago that I decided to start using them again. I read a lot on the internet, and I got the itch to use different nibs and different inks even before starting. One thing I wanted is to use always the same pen with the same ink, rather than be changing inks all the time on the same pen.

I was lucky that the first thing I did when setting out was buying three matching Parker Vector pens with a medium nib, each with a Parker piston converter. In my daily life I write in three different colours, green, red and blue, so I bought three Waterman ink bottles and got matching Parker Vectors. These pens work perfectly. I've had no problem with them, and the nibs are a generous M and wet, which I like.

I've said that I was lucky these were my first pens, because if I had bought or been given any of the other pens I have at present before, I'd have probably put it aside and forgotten about it all. I wanted to use piston converters with all my pens, buy my impression is that having issues with them is much more common than not having them, when I think it should be the other way round. These are all of my pens with such converters:

- Three Parker Vectors (Parker converters): lovely.
- One Jinhao 500 (Faber-Castell converter): surface tension problems.
- One Parker IM (Parker converter): surface tension problems.
- One Waterman Kultur (Waterman converter): surface tension problems.

I have read extensively about surface tension, and how to solve problems associated to it. I even started a topic here about this, and I must say that, in spite of the frustration after many futile attempts to solve it, I've sort of had a good time trying one thing after another that forum members have kindly and generously suggested. I've washed the converters. I've used a small amount of ink to which I had previously added some surfactant. I've broken several converters while trying to disassemble them to put a ball inside them (do they only sell sealed glued converters where I live?). I've searched high and low for compression springs with the right size to put them into the converters (I live in a small place, and this sort of 'uncommon' things are not easily available)... I phoned a big fountain pen shop in another town, and they told me that all this was nonsense and that, filled in a proper way so no air was let inside them, all my converters should behave properly.

I'm fed up. If everything else fails, I can always fill cartridges with a syringe. But I don't like the idea. I am a clumsy person, and I do know for a fact that disaster is looming, so I don't feel like increasing the number of ink transfers. But, above all, I feel disappointed. Mine are not expensive fountain pens, but I would expect them to work at least half correctly. The pens are dry all the time, even after a couple of hours after having last used them. I suppose I could always store them with the nib downwards, but I don't like the idea, and less of all in a shirt pocket. But all I do with my pens most days is doodling a little, not to prevent them from running dry (almost always they have already done so), but to make them wet again, until the following day). If I buy a fountain pen, it is with a view to write with it in a reasonable way, and not to become an expert in fluids mechanics. I want to walk out of the shop with a pen that works, and I don't think that's asking too much.

I've almost made up my mind to sell cheap or give away the fountain pens and ink bottles and go back to ball pens. My writing won't be half as pretty, but my headaches will be less. I'm not even sure whether I'll keep the three Parker Vectors.

I'm not asking about help with the surface tension problems (I have the other thread for that, and a great addition to the forum it's become, I think, because I'm sure it'll help many people). I don't really know why I've written all this. Whether to look for sympathy, or for advice... Or, probably, just to vent my frustration and let it out. But I had to do it. Sorry if you find all this ranting rude or out of place. And thanks for reading if you've got this far.

[Uncial]

I think you're on to something.

 

I've been having problems with this recently, most notably in Delta and Visconti. The so-called easy fix is to push a ball into the converter, but it doesn't always work for some reason. It can be very annoying.

[Florenze]

I wish I knew something useful to say. I don't, but I did want to say thanks for the surface tension thread. And I agree with Uncial, you're on to something. I sought out that thread for ongoing problems with a Delta pen.

 

These problems run deep below surface tension after awhile. Wish you the best of luck and hope you don't have to go back to the ballpoint world.

[AAAndrew]

Have you considered a non-cartridge converter pen? My experience with TWISBI has been great, and with a piston pen like the Mini, there's no need to worry about fluid dynamics. The ink just flows.

 

By all means, if you don't like the pens you have, sell them. But then rather than revert to [shudder] ball point pens, try another filling mechanism.

 

Even a vintage lever-filler is better.

[Wahl]

I use vintage lever fillers, not a single problem

[pajaro]

You might try a Parker 51. I have had issues with all the pens you mentioned.

 

There are many nice ballpoints. I have never left off using them.

[Bo Bo Olson]

There are some converters with little balls in them or a spring, that makes them work.

 

True piston pens....and I'd go semi-vintage or Vintage 400's....or the vintage Geha 790 as best buy.

Much better nibs in they are semi-flex.

[Philips]

Don't give up! I'd try a couple of vintage pens too, they just seem to, you know, work

[ac12]

The difficult thing is for certain brands you are stuck with THEIR converter, since I have not been able to find non-Brand converters for these pens. I have not been able to open a Parker, Sheaffer or Waterman converter, so I am unable to put a stainless steel ball into them. But for several others, the converters are easily opened. Then there is the Lamy converter. Easily opened, but the SS ball when it fall forward, will SEAL the opening and prevent ink from exiting the converter. The Lamy converter needs a different solution. So dealing with surface tension in converters is an ongoing problem.

 

And switching to a piston pen is not a guarantee of avoiding the problem. I have a Reform 1745 which has the same surface tension problem that the converters do. The ink gets stuck in the back of the pen, until I tap the pen to break the surface tension.

 

It could happen in a sac pen as well, but I can't see into the sac on any of my sac pens, so I have no idea if surface tension affects them. Interestingly I have a Parker Duofold with an aerometric filler that has a very thin rod in the sac. I was told that the rod was to break the surface tension.

 

My feeling is if the diameter of the converter, piston cylinder or ink sac is larger than a certain size, X, surface tension will not be able to hold the ink in the back of the pen. So the problem is not filler specific but diameter specific. It just happens that all the converters are below that size, so are vulnerable to the surface tension problem. And so would the smaller piston and ink sac pens.

Edited July 11, 2016 by ac12

[Cassotto]

Hi!

 

Thanks a lot for all your answers and your understanding. I'm still disappointed about it all. As ac12 says, it's not as easy as finding a specific type of converter that works and then buying several of them. Some pens won't work with converters others than theirs. I'm willing to spend money on converters as long as they are guaranteed to work, but when I've asked about this issue at the fountain pen shop I usually go (went) to, they've always told me that my Parker, Watermand and Faber-Castell converters should work, because those are serious brands (but that the original Jinhao converter my 500 came with probably wouldn't, so that's why I bought the Faber-Castell one). Besides, I don't doubt there are many pens, vintage or new, that work perfectly well. And perhaps I may learn to know which models to avoid and which ones to trust.

 

But this is still at odds with the philosophy I expected to find behind all this, which was something along the lines of "you can use any pen you like with any ink you like, the combinations are endless". In spite of that, I'm not being overly adventurous. I'm trying to use a Parker pen with a Parker converter and Parker ink, and a Waterman pen with a Waterman converter and Waterman ink. If those combinations don't work, what will? Besides, these inks are not specially dense, I believe.

 

Vintage pens may be the solution, and more for someone like me, with a penchant for old things. But if I walk into a shop and I see a new pen that I like, how can I dare buy it without knowing whether it will work? And what if, like in the case of the Parker IM, I get the pen as a gift I'd like to keep for the sake of those who gave it to me? There are many reasons why you may like or dislike a pen. It may be too dry or too wet for you. Its point may be too fine or too wide for you. Or too scratchy. Perhaps you will prefer flexible nibs, or not. Or italic nibs. You may find a pen uncomfortable to hold. Or too heavy, or too plastic-looking. Too ostentatious or too sober. The only unacceptable reason why you may find that you don't like it, for me, is that it doesn't work properly.

 

And, not only that, if surface tension problems have something to do with the diameter of the converter, who can guarantee that if I ever buy a $2,000 pen I'm not going to have them? It cannot be only the converter. Otherwhise, why wouldn't my Parker IM work if my three Parker Vectors, with the same converter, write perfectly?

 

This morning I've tried to use the Parker IM to write something, and, as always, it was dry, even though I did use it yesterday. Tapping the converter hasn't even worked. The pen hasn't started writing until I have moved the piston to push the ink towards the feed (and not before a big drop of ink had fallen, luckily on a paper I didn't need, even though I was trying to be careful and slow). Come on, it's not three months that I've left the pen unused! I'm utterly fed up. I think I'll take a break, use ballpens during the summer, and decide afterwards. But I'm almost sure what I'll do.

 

Thanks anyway! You're a great bunch!

Edited July 13, 2016 by Cassotto

[sirgilbert357]

Frustrating problem to be sure. I guess I'd recommend a piston pen if you eventually decide to be open to trying another type. My Lamy 2000, Pelikan M205, Pelikan M405 and TWSBI Mini Classic never gave me those kinds of issues. A TWSBI Eco can get you the same filling system style for a bit less. I've got no advice beyond that though, as my cartridge/converter pens mostly just work. Sometimes when a converter is running low and it's been in my shirt pocket nib up, the last drops of ink cling to the tail of the converter, but a casual flick with my finger against the pen body can usually dislodge it. If all else fails, I point it nib up and advance the converter till ink begins to pool in the base of the fins and then back it off a bit to draw the excess back in. Then it's fine. Good luck whatever you decide, but I wouldn't give up totally.

[vinniekowalski]

The possibilities are endless, but not all of them will work nor will all of them be good. Ballpoint or rollerball pens will have more consistent performance, but I use fountain pens more often than the other pen types because I'm willing to sacrifice some performance consistency for character -- I like the wider range of inks, I like the feel of the writing, I like the idea of using something older than me; I like tinkering & experimenting a little bit.

 

I know how you feel, however: I returned my TWSBI Vac Mini because the nib kept leaking into the cap, and blobbing on the paper. I double checked that I didn't have the back piston unscrewed; didn't help. I flushed it; didn't fix it. I unscrewed the section & nib parts to add some more silicone grease; didn't fix it. Then I exchanged it for a new one, which actually had the same problem, but worse! This was just more tinkering than I wanted to do.

 

So to a certain degree, I think each pen user -- and car person and model person and computer person, I suppose -- ends up finding out how deep they want to get into the customization and tinkering. Some things are too much trouble, while other people may think the trouble is half the fun.

 

I wouldn't feel bad if it's not for you; there are other things you can geek out about and spend waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much money on...

[ac12]

The comment about being able to use ANY pen with ANY ink, is an ideal that rarely happens, at least for me.

If a pen is adjusted for a mid-wetness ink, it may write acceptably with a WET or DRY ink. But then it may not. And while it may write, you may not like the ink flow with the WET or DRY inks.

In my case, have had to adjust MANY nibs to get the ink flow that I want.

 

As for brand specific.

My Sheaffer pen with a Sheaffer converter with Sheaffer ink, will get ink stuck in the back of the converter.

My Parker pen, with Parker Quink cartridge ink, would drool ink as I wrote. I had to switch to Cross/Pelikan ink to stop the drooling.

So that kills the comment about needing to use brand specific stuff.

 

Back to surface tension.

If all efforts at using a converter fails, you may have to use syringe filled cartridges.

 

I rarely get surface tension problems in my cartridges. Why, I don't know. I suspect there is something to do with the material the cartridge is made of vs. the converters, and the design of the inside surface of the cartridge.

- My Lamy Z24 converter gets ink stuck in the back, but not my Z26 converter. Maybe the material the converter is made of. This is the only AB comparison I can make, as I don't have other interchangeable converters.

- The inside of some cartridges appear to have ridges running the length of the cartridge. Is this to break the surface tension?

 

As for your Parker IM. I have certain pens that I have to store nib DOWN, or flat. If I store the pen nib UP overnight, the pen won't write in the morning. It appears that the ink drains out of the feed, back into the ink storage (cartridge, converter, etc.) Then when you try to write, the ink had to first flow from the cartridge into the feed, then to the nib, making for a hard starting pen. In this case, I just learn which pens behave this way, then store them nib down or flat.

Edited July 13, 2016 by ac12

[doggonecarl]

Sorry your experience with fountain pens has been so disheartening. But better to be disappointed at 6 pens than 60.

[doriath19]

I can understand your disappointment. After all, fountain pen enthusiasts usually plunge headlong into the world of pen, ink, and paper because we are searching for a writing ideal of some kind (or at least a better writing experience). But I personally have found that the ideal I have been pursuing (perfect pen, perfect ink, perfect paper, perfect nib) simply do not exist for me.

 

And it's not just that I can't find my ideal. My experience has most often fallen short of even normal writing (dry writing, leaking messy pens, bad pen/ink combinations). I am no longer looking for the perfect pen. I have even gone back to one or two good ballpoints. But I have found a few good fountain pens that seem to keep writing no matter what (pilot metropolitan and TWSBI 580 and mini). I am happy with these pens and I am happy with my ballpoints. The main thing is that my thoughts get to the page.

[drjmb]

Jeez, guys, what are you using? I keep a dozen or so pens inked in rotation and try to write with 'em at least every other day. They are capped and stored on their sides. I use a variety of inks, wet, dry, saturated and have never had a problem like you guys are reporting. I've a mix of new and vintage pens and I judge a pen by its nib feel and ink flow, not whether there's a bubble in the converter. Besides, you can always just flick it with a fingernail! No whining.

[sirgilbert357]

I should probably add that I have adjusted some of my pen nibs too...I match one ink to one pen and leave it that way. I have a Lamy Studio I use if I want to try a new ink sample or switch it up. All of my other pens have dedicated inks that are constant. So, I'm no stranger to adjusting nibs and even smoothing and tuning a brand new pen. I've only had a few that wrote perfectly out of the box when paired with the dedicated ink I chose for it...

[pajaro]

I cannot conclusively say that I have had a surface tension issue with a C/C pen. I have had the ball in converters shut off the ink flow. In such cases I removed the ball. Some converters have a spring for this purpose, and it doesn't shut off ink flow. I have had a lot of trouble with C/C pens, but it has been because the ink dried and the nib and feed had to be wetted or the pen filled to resolve this. Most of the half decent pens I have had would start with a little fiddling if I used them every day until they ran empty. This would lend itself to a rotation of pens. I despise regimentation, however, and rotating pens according to some scheme seems too military. I did my time in the USAF, and I am doing no more.

 

Looking back on about fifty-eight years of doing fountain pens, there are a few pens that I can say gave little of no trouble. Parker 51 aerometric, Montblanc 144 (spring in the converter), any Pelikan piston filler, modern, Montblanc piston fillers, Sheaffer school cartridge pens (you can get a converter for these that works well), Sheaffer Imperial (Touchdown filler and Snorkel), Parker 61 (if the plastic doesn't crack), Esterbrook (these are cheap pens with a cheap feel), Cross Solo (green converter). There might be others, but many expensive pens I have had were, to use an expression familiar to the younger generation, meh.

[Arkanabar]

I also have the sort of drying out issue you have, including sometimes with my Dad's Parker "51" (which deserves more use than it gets). My solution is simple: momentarily dip the tip of the pen in water, say to about 5mm/0.25". If ink isn't getting to the feed, I'll drop the pen about 1" onto a pad of paper or folded washcloth, more than once if need be. I suppose there could be pens heavy enough and nibs delicate enough for this to be a very bad idea, but none in my collection.

[sandy101]

My Parker IMs dry out at th edrop of a hat. I've had better results with my Sonnet. Arkanabar's solution works well for me too. A quick dunk, just enough to wet the feed (and not soak dilute the ink) works well.

 

I don't see this problem with my more expensive pens - but I've had it with the Pelikan Stola III and Parker IM and (disappointingly) wit a Waterman Perspective - filled with Waterman's own ink - so yes, I share your frustration at times. Ballpoints just write, without any fuss - and you can shove them in a pocket for months and they'll still do so.