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Diamine Registrar's Ink (Iron Gall) Messed Up My Lamy 2000

lamy 2000 iron gall diamine registrars ink clogging

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#1 mangobait

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 17:05

I welcome any insight on this problem I've been having.
 
I was given a fountain pens for my birthday about fifteen years ago. I enjoyed it but after a little, I discovered that its ink could wash away with water. I didn't know there were other options in ink so I stopped using the pen I had.
 
A few months ago I mentioned this to a clerk at my favourite stationary shop, that I'd love to use a fountain pen but that water-soluble ink is a deal breaker. He said, but there are permanent inks.
 
I bought the Lamy 2000 and the only permanent ink they stock, the Diamine Registrar's Ink. After a few weeks, the pen started to clog. The ink had quickly stopped being the rich blue black that it started as and often I would have a few hints of the dark colour and then a much thinner pale blue. Then it started to clog and I couldn't write a full sentence without having to stop and nurse the flow out again.
 
When I went back to the shop, they kindly ordered a medium nib and switched it for my fine nib. That seemed to have solved the problem for a while but then that too started clogging. The owner speculated that the iron gall was reacting with the gold nib. (But then isn't gold nonreactive? Perhaps with the laminate.)
 
This last week, I gave up on the ink and picked up Noodler's Black from another shop in town. When I switched out the ink, I took the pen apart (not like in the timid video on the Lamy website where they show a beautiful video of an animation of emptying the pen and filling and emptying it with water a few times) and rinsed it with filtered water. The first day the pen wrote smoothly for the better part of an hour. And then started to go dry towards the end of my writing time. I thought, well, there is a gentle cross-draft going through my apartment on this hot and humid day. Maybe that's why. But then I wrote again just after midnight and it started stopping again. So much so that I switched back to my faithful Uniball Deluxe. I disassembled the pen and this time soaked it until morning with a hint of biodegradable dish soap, as some people (the shop owner included) had suggested.
 
I filled it again with the Noodler's Black and that morning, yesterday morning, it wrote beautifully. My only remark was that it had a lot less character than the Diamine (like a one note whisky to the Diamine's complexity of colour) but that it wrote smoothly with my pen.
 
Then last night, I wrote for half an hour and it started to skip. This morning the skipping became too much and I had to go back to the Uniball.
 
So, first, I strongly suggest avoiding iron gall inks such as the Diamine Archival Registrar's Ink in a Lamy 2000. I don't know if this would be an issue with all gold nib pens or if it is the lamination process that Lamy uses to coat the gold nib. I just know I will never again put that ink in this pen, as beautiful as it is.
 
And, second, can anyone help me? I'll go back to the shop and see what they suggest. But this is driving me crazy. Is this problem coming from residue from the iron gall? It was in both the fine and medium nibs. The only other common denominators are me and the notebook, a Leuchtrum, think Moleskin but nicer paper.
 
Is there a way to clean the pen once and for all?
 
Thanks,
 
Andrew

 



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#2 RMN

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 19:04

I moved your question to an Ink forum. The other option would have been the Lamy forum.

 

But because it's about a special ink, I think an ink forum is better.

 

I trust those in the know will be able to help you.

 

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#3 Goudy

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 20:09

if you take a look in the bottom of the bottle you'll probably notice some of the sediment that's causing the problem with your pen. I've gunked up a few pens with that stuff, but it usually flushes out with pen cleaner solution like Rapido-Eze.

There are some FP friendly iron galls like Scabiosa that may fit yours needs without the risk of clogging.

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#4 Sandy1

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 00:26

:W2FPN:

 

Hi,

 

I very much agree with Member Goudy to absolutely avoid drawing any sediment into the pen. There was some discussion of how to avoid that in my Review of Ecclesiastical Stationery Supplies Registrars Ink. The most simple and effective means would be to use a filler bottle, such as a 5ml [glass] vial that enables visual inspection to a greater extent than the squat DRI bottle. Decanting into a Montblanc 'shoe' bottle is a viable option.

 

Also, the pen must be thoroughly cleansed before inking-up with an I-G ink. Once again thanks to Member Goudy for mentioning the use of a technical pen cleaner which would likely be required if there was a nasty reaction between the DRI and residue from previous inks.

 

As for clean-up of IG inks, the Topic 'Limit to Soaking' and links within, offers additional techniques & tactics. http://www.fountainp...king/?p=2453755

 

I'm not sure about the L2K barrel's resistance to clean-up chemistry, so wrapping the barrel in cling film may be prudent. (I do so with my celluloid pens and beloved Pelikan M400 White Tortoise.)

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 08 July 2016 - 14:03.

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#5 Leftytoo

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 01:45

I would not use any ink that leaves a layer of sediment in the bottom of the bottle or that needs to be shaken up or filtered. Good inks are true solutions, not mixtures of liquid plus solids. Pelikan Blue Black is a solution of iron gall and modern ink components. No solids form even if you let it stand for years. Salix and Scabiosa are two pure iron gall inks. I have used all three in all pens in my collection without any problems.

Any time I have an ink that causes problems (sediment, mould), I just dump it. Good pens deserve good inks.
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#6 Abner C. Kemp

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 02:25

I don't know that I would blame the IG ink without any evidence, it very well could be the pen. From my understanding, the first ink you used in the Lamy 2000 was the IG ink and it eventually clogged and skipped, then you used the pen with Noodler's Black and it clogged and skipped. If there is no evidence of clogging from the ink (i.e. no residue in the feed or on the nib, no discoloration of the ink window, no residue in the barrel) then I would venture a guess that the pen might be giving you issues. I would suggest flushing the pen with some kind of pen flush and making sure that you carefully inspect the feed, you can even clean it with a tooth brush if needed. Then try using the pen with an ink that is not likely to cause issues (Waterman Serenity Blue or some other washable ink) and see if the skipping issues continue. I did an experiment with Diamine Registrar's and left it in a cheap Hero pen for over a year -- it stained the hell out of the sac and wrote pretty dark but I never had any significant clogging or skipping. Of course, it's very possible you got a bad bottle but from what you describe I wouldn't be all that surprised if the pen was simply finicky. 



#7 setriode

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 02:26

Pens with IG registrar's inks need flushing with a diluted acid (citric or acetic). I wouldn't advise soaking in acid or ammonia.

I used ESSR in my 2000 when I owned one. I found the metal section was ok being dipped in acid & later in diluted ammonia if it too was also cleaned immediately with water.

The acid flushes should remove any build-up in the feed. The gold nib won't be affected by the IG.

A pen with registrar's ink needs to be written with regularly otherwise it is prone to clogging and drying out.

Edited by setriode, 08 July 2016 - 02:33.


#8 Arkanabar

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 02:46

I'm not willing to fool with IG inks.  There's no doubt that they have tons of character, but they require more pen hygeine than I'm willing to put in.  That's because of how they work.  Iron-gall inks are a solution of tannoferrogallic acid (which is transparent in solution) with a colorant, traditionally blue, so you can see what you're writing.  As the ink dries, the tannoferrogallic acid oxidizes into an insoluble dark grey solid.  As has been said, R&K Salix and Scabiosa have earned a reputation as the most benign of IG inks.

Noodler's Heart of Darkness flows better IMX than their Black, and dries faster.  If I was using Black, I'd likely be tempted to dilute it at about 5:1 ink:water.

There are some aniline dye inks with decent water resistance.  These include Pilot Blue-Black, Pilot Iroshizuku Yama-Guri, and Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black.  Sandy1's remarkably thorough ink reviews often include both spattering a writing sample with drops of water, and soaking another in soapy water.  See the Ink Reviews Index.

There are also some nano-pigment inks for fountain pens on the market; I trust others to chime in with names.  As with iron gall inks, nano-pigment inks require a greater degree of pen hygeine.


Edited by Arkanabar, 09 July 2016 - 02:48.


#9 atomic_doug

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 20:29

It doesn't sound like OP has a problem with the ink so much as he has a problem with the feed.  (It's not like Lamy is renowned for flawless QC either.  My own Lamy 2000 had a hilariously out-of-tune nib until Mike Masuyama took care of it.)

 

Iron-gall inks are not voodoo.  They're just ink.  While they have an acidic component, their pH is not radically more acidic than normal ink.  Most inks, in fact, have a sub-7 pH.  Modern iron-gall inks only have a tiny amount of ferro-gallic compounds

 

You don't have to do anything with iron-gall inks than you wouldn't do with a normal ink.

 

Don't use really old ink.  Flush the pen out with water every few-fillups.  Clean it out every time you change colors.   When you give it a good cleaning, flush it with a dilute vinegar solution, then water.  These rules have been in place since fountain pens existed.


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#10 Fuellerfuehrerschein

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 17:47

With another iron gall ink (ESSRI) I found out it yielded a hard to remove sediment when exposed to light. You can read more about my experiment with 2 Lamy pens in the following post http://www.fountainp...-ink/?p=2833607.

 

The Lamy 2000 has an ink window exposing the ink contained in the barrel to light. I have no Lamy 2000, but ESSRI would most probably misbehave in the 2000 like it did in my Vista.

 

 

 



#11 Algester

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 08:47

It doesn't sound like OP has a problem with the ink so much as he has a problem with the feed.  (It's not like Lamy is renowned for flawless QC either.  My own Lamy 2000 had a hilariously out-of-tune nib until Mike Masuyama took care of it.)
 
Iron-gall inks are not voodoo.  They're just ink.  While they have an acidic component, their pH is not radically more acidic than normal ink.  Most inks, in fact, have a sub-7 pH.  Modern iron-gall inks only have a tiny amount of ferro-gallic compounds
 
You don't have to do anything with iron-gall inks than you wouldn't do with a normal ink.
 
Don't use really old ink.  Flush the pen out with water every few-fillups.  Clean it out every time you change colors.   When you give it a good cleaning, flush it with a dilute vinegar solution, then water.  These rules have been in place since fountain pens existed.

personally I havent touched Iron gall inks but iron gall inks no matter "small iron compounds" those iron compounds can still clump up while in the bottle...

#12 pkoko

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 21:21

This is what I would do if this was my pen:

 

1- Make hot water and dish detergent mixture 20:1 ratio

 

2- Use the piston and flush the pen in and out around 10 times after it is all clear.

 

3- Make the same mixture again and leave the pen inside of it over night and flush it in the morning with regular water.

 

4- Fill the pen with your favorite ink and enjoy.

 

PS. I use iron gal inks all the time. They only need to be flushed with water once a month and this deep cleaning once a year. I have been using FP for 4+ years now.

 

 

Don't use really old ink.  Flush the pen out with water every few-fillups.  Clean it out every time you change colors.   When you give it a good cleaning, flush it with a dilute vinegar solution, then water.  These rules have been in place since fountain pens existed.

+1 to the above comment


Edited by pkoko, 14 July 2016 - 21:22.

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#13 Ergative

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 21:38

Here's a thought that might absolve both the pen and ink: Could it be that you weren't actually getting a completely full fill? The clogging behavior is also consistent with just running out of ink, and if you're recently returned to the fountain pen world, perhaps you weren't dipping your pen deeply enough or consistently enough to actually draw ink into the pen after every use. When it started skipping and turning pale, would ink still come out of the pen if you untwisted the piston? Could you see ink in the ink window?







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: lamy 2000, iron gall, diamine registrars ink, clogging



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