Substitute For My 400 Souveran?

[laurahead108]

Hi,

I recently inherited a Souveran (400). Love it. Love. It. However, I'm a college prof and am afraid to take it to work -- the "walking pen" phenomena is rampant at universities. Which lower-priced Pelikan will feel most like my 400 Souveran, minus its golden bells and whistles? (For reference, I like a Fine point.) Any ideas you have are most appreciated.

 

Thank you!

Laura

[Scribblesoften]

The M200 is the same size as your 400. It has a steel nib and is made of lesser materials but still writes very nicely. Some people even prefer the steel nib on the M200 to the recent production gold nibs like the one on your 400. M200's are available from many vendors and have been offered with a couple of minor style changes over the years. Other less expensive Pelikans that have been produced are the 120 and 140 pens. They are both slightly smaller and are no longer in production but are well worth looking at. Good luck. I hope you find a nice pen.

[Bluey]

Does it have to be a Pelikan? The bottom of the pile in the Souveran range is the m200 which is not much less than the m400.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Bluey

[laurahead108]

Does it have to be a Pelikan? The bottom of the pile in the Souveran range is the m200 which is not much less than the m400.

 

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for your help. I'd like to stay with Pelikan, this is my first real foray into non-Japanese pens (except my trusty Lamy Safari.)

TX

[laurahead108]

The M200 is the same size as your 400. It has a steel nib and is made of lesser materials but still writes very nicely. Some people even prefer the steel nib on the M200 to the recent production gold nibs like the one on your 400. M200's are available from many vendors and have been offered with a couple of minor style changes over the years. Other less expensive Pelikans that have been produced are the 120 and 140 pens. They are both slightly smaller and are no longer in production but are well worth looking at. Good luck. I hope you find a nice pen.

I'll look into these, thank you!

[sargetalon]

I work in a hospital, another great location for pens to walk off. Despite that, I have never lost one and I exclusively use Pelikans. My stratagy has always been simple. If it's not in my hand, it's in my pocket and vice versa. That way the pen is on my person at all times. Of course, my shirts all have pockets. May be less feasible for you if that's not the case. Is there some solution that would allow you to keep the pen on you at all times?

 

Otherwise, the Stola III could be something to look into. It's a Pelikan cartridge filler for about $50. The next step up is the M200 or M205 lines. These can be had for $100-150 but are the same size as the M400 and are piston operated. Would still be a decent loss though if it were to walk off.

[laurahead108]

I work in a hospital, another great location for pens to walk off. Despite that, I have never lost one and I exclusively use Pelikans. My stratagy has always been simple. If it's not in my hand, it's in my pocket and vice versa. That way the pen is on my person at all times. Of course, my shirts all have pockets. May be less feasible for you if that's not the case. Is there some solution that would allow you to keep the pen on you at all times?

 

Otherwise, the Stola III could be something to look into. It's a Pelikan cartridge filler for about $50. The next step up is the M200 or M205 lines. These can be had for $100-150 but are the same size as the M400 and are piston operated. Would still be a decent loss though if it were to walk off.

Thoughtful advice. I could give the pocket-plan a whirl, but know in my heart it will fail. (I had to retrieve my Platinum 3776 from my chairman's pen cup.) Perhaps I should just stay with my Lamy Safari at work, why give them the satisfaction...

[jpierson]

Lamy Safari and Pilot Metropolitan are my "don't care if I lose them" pens.

[PAKMAN]

The 200 size sounds perfect for what you are looking for. The nib is gold plated steel not so much gold bling and can be purchased in fine and extra fine.

[OCArt]

I'd second the idea of looking for a used Pelikan 120. With careful study and wait they can be had at around $30 on auction sites.

[laurahead108]

The 200 size sounds perfect for what you are looking for. The nib is gold plated steel not so much gold bling and can be purchased in fine and extra fine.

 

I know, I'm already down the rabbit hole of M 200 shopping. Landed briefly on an Souveran m200 for $125, before I realized I was back where I started. Pen shopping is hell.

[laurahead108]

I'd second the idea of looking for a used Pelikan 120. With careful study and wait they can be had at around $30 on auction sites.

That's a great idea, thank you. Where else should I look besides eBay? I there a PBay?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Geha 790, is semi-flex, is simple black and gold mostly, costs if lucky from 25 euro-50 or bit more....prices climbed a lot lately. (The 140 went from 50-70 to 70-90.)

It is standard sized like your 400.....you may like it better than your 400. The nib is a tad better than the '50-65 Pelikan.

Two posters I respect said that, so I tested my four 790's vs my six '50-65 Pelikans (Not counting my 120)...and found them right.

 

I have four 790's, one black and gold with three true rings from @ 1959, two black and gold with three sort of rings...due to the death of my computer and no time I have not got back into photo bucket. One of those two was a maxi-semi-flex to my pleasant surprise.

 

One 790 I have has a gray stripped barrel a bit different than Pelikan stripes. Color on many vintage German pens costs more, I got it for @ 65 Euro. They are not common....won't say they are rare...but my money's always on vacation when I spotted them before.

 

The 780 is the real good full stripped colored ones....and they are rare....I didn't even know they existed until some six months ago....after knowing about Geha for seven years. Those are expensive....well to my wallet....not to folks that 'waste' money on a new 400 instead of buying the better Vintage one.

 

They were competitors both from Hanover. Geha aimed it's 790 at the 400 and the same size as a 140 was then the top of their line 760, having a 'gold' band at the piston cap. The 140/760 was very popular back then for size. Kaweco also made a pen in that size. All of them post long, so are posted the same size as a 400.

 

1990 when the Malaysian Billionaire bought up and saved Pelikan, the first thing he did was buy Geha's pen division and shut it down in Geha was then only making school pens, and had better and more than Pelikan........3 years later Lamy brought out the Safari.

[laurahead108]

Geha 790, is semi-flex, is simple black and gold mostly, costs if lucky from 25 euro-50 or bit more....prices climbed a lot lately. (The 140 went from 50-70 to 70-90.)

It is standard sized like your 400.....you may like it better than your 400. The nib is a tad better than the '50-65 Pelikan.

Two posters I respect said that, so I tested my four 790's vs my six '50-65 Pelikans (Not counting my 120)...and found them right.

 

I have four 790's, one black and gold with three true rings from @ 1959, two black and gold with three sort of rings...due to the death of my computer and no time I have not got back into photo bucket. One of those two was a maxi-semi-flex to my pleasant surprise.

 

One 790 I have has a gray stripped barrel a bit different than Pelikan stripes. Color on many vintage German pens costs more, I got it for @ 65 Euro. They are not common....won't say they are rare...but my money's always on vacation when I spotted them before.

 

The 780 is the real good full stripped colored ones....and they are rare....I didn't even know they existed until some six months ago....after knowing about Geha for seven years. Those are expensive....well to my wallet....not to folks that 'waste' money on a new 400 instead of buying the better Vintage one.

 

They were competitors both from Hanover. Geha aimed it's 790 at the 400 and the same size as a 140 was then the top of their line 760, having a 'gold' band at the piston cap. The 140/760 was very popular back then for size. Kaweco also made a pen in that size. All of them post long, so are posted the same size as a 400.

 

1990 when the Malaysian Billionaire bought up and saved Pelikan, the first thing he did was buy Geha's pen division and shut it down in Geha was then only making school pens, and had better and more than Pelikan........3 years later Lamy brought out the Safari.

 

Geha - -who knew? This is fascinating and so helpful - -thank you!

[fplover01]

I find this post very well thought of. Never leave pen unattended, and always on your person. This solves the walking pen issue.

 

Other than that, M200/M205 is the obvious choice here, effectively a M40x without the elaborate binde, rougher finish and steel nib. Have been using these pens for ages, never did one of them let me down.

I work in a hospital, another great location for pens to walk off. Despite that, I have never lost one and I exclusively use Pelikans. My stratagy has always been simple. If it's not in my hand, it's in my pocket and vice versa. That way the pen is on my person at all times. Of course, my shirts all have pockets. May be less feasible for you if that's not the case. Is there some solution that would allow you to keep the pen on you at all times?

Otherwise, the Stola III could be something to look into. It's a Pelikan cartridge filler for about $50. The next step up is the M200 or M205 lines. These can be had for $100-150 but are the same size as the M400 and are piston operated. Would still be a decent loss though if it were to walk off.

[carlos.q]

I agree that a M200/205 is the obvious choice.

 

However: you should be warned. Once you get used to the M200/205's springy steel nib you will probably find the M400's gold nib a bit bland.

[laurahead108]

I agree that a M200/205 is the obvious choice.

 

However: you should be warned. Once you get used to the M200/205's springy steel nib you will probably find the M400's gold nib a bit bland.

Duly noted. Thank you.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The 'new' post '97 is bland, a semi-nail, with a big blobby nib tip, so the Ball Point Barbarians can continue to hole a fountain pen like a ball point....before the big index knuckle.

 

They are now semi-nail because the Barbarians are Jack Hammer Ham Fisted on the whole....from the disasters I read here often. There is less repair in a semi-nail than even in 'true' regular flex.

I call it 'true' regular flex in many know only the nail and semi-nail in modern pens.

 

Some the first time they run into a semi-vintage or vintage 'true' regular flex because of the nib spring and heavy handness think it's semi-flex. That does give an indication of how good a 'true' regular flex nib is. You can buy a SS 200's nib for your 400 for @ $25....gold plated is more expensive....but still cheaper than buying a semi-vintage 400....and get the 'same' wonderful regular flex nib as a '82-97 400.

 

I grew up with true regular flex as normal. I do have to admit I was a semi-flex snob for a while.

I have come to appreciate semi-vintage and vintage regular flex, much more than I use too. Often it shades better....

 

The '82/3-@90 West Germany or W. Germany is reputed to be a tad springier in 'true' regular flex than the Germany '90-91-97.... when the new second class M 400 came in...the one with the gold ring at the piston cap.

 

The W. Germany 800 has a real real nice springy 'true' regular flex nib. I'm forgetting exact dates....don't remember if first year was '89 or not, but '89-90/91...the W. Germany one; is one of my Grail pens; in spite of I don't really care much for Large pens. I trans-mailed one to Spain because some German idiot only mailed in Germany. The nib was all that folks bragged.

 

I'm more use to large pens now than then. Back then and into the mid '90's the 800 had it's own nib size, a bit narrower than the semi-vintage pre'98 400's....a bit wider than the narrower Waterman nibs.

In both cases (400-800) they were narrower than Waterman in EF. I don't know when in the '90's the 800 became a nail...but would bet it was @ when the M400 got the gold ring and the fat blobby semi-nail nib, in '98.

 

I have a Germany '90's M 400 Tortoise, that were stopped being made in '96 as Tortoise; '97 for the rest. It has a very nice springy 'true' regular flex nib, like the 200/215, 380/90....forget which I have, my two Celebry pens with equal steel and gold nibs. In I normally don't care for cartridges of I ended up with three of them from Pelikan. All those nibs are very, good springy 'true' regular flex and @ 1/2 a size narrower than modern.

 

I do like the softer ride a 'true' regular flex gives over the semi-nail 600 I have....well I have my 400n tortoise semi-flex B in it.

 

There is a place for a springy 'true' regular flex nib when it comes to shading inks with any good paper. Some inks and papers shade much better with regular flex than with the wetter semi/maxi-semi-flex nibs. Some inks and papers do quite well with the wetter semi/maxi nib. One has to test the nib and ink.

 

M in semi-vintage and vintage and the 200/215 is 1/2 a width narrower than the fat modern M.

 

Using MB Toffee, a brown shading ink.

F gave me light line with darker trails.

M gave me 50-50 Breaking the M prejudice I'd picked up on this com.

B gave me a dark line with light trails.

 

Eventually you will need a M nib. Most jump to skinny or to wide and M gets disrespected. Sigh, me too.

 

The Geha school pen.....19-30 Euros...is like the 120 (2X that price) a nice springy regular flex nib. Both have an American Bump Under nib. It is a standard sized pen also. And has the Geha reserve button that will give you another page of writing after running out of ink....that goes for all Geha pens.

Do not buy the '70-90 or earlier Geha cartridge pens, they must use the Geha cartridge which is rare to find in the last was made in '90. The Geha cartridge fit both Geha one one end and Pelikan on the other. Pelikan cartridges do not fit Geha.

 

The Geha piston school pen has a serial number and only a clip ring instead of the three rings of a 790....they look very much alike. If you wish you can buy from a German Pirate selling in the US for only $89.

They still go for 12-19 Euros if you look in German Ebay.

Look for takes Paypal and mails to the US....many pinch the penny and miss the nickle.

That's your best buy for a nice springy regular flex nibbed pen.

 

If you buy vintage '50-60's Geha 790 or Pelikan 400/140 pens, the tipping is very flat and stubbish, and no, no shade tree mechanic tried to stub it and took off all the tipping. Germans were very 'sparsam'/cheap with the tipping. It gives you a nice clean line with good line variation in they are semi/maxi + the stubbishness.

 

Obliques of that era are the only Obliques that give line variation. Anything newer is only for folks with left eye dominance that cant the nib automatically. I have a W.Germany 200 OM...sigh...I've trans-mailed a OM 200...sigh. No real line variation, compared to the semi/maxi Vintage nibs.

I'm spoiled rotten, with my semi/maxi '50-60's Obliques.

 

Sigh....as a teacher you get a lot of bad paper to mark....so wasting shading ink on that is a sin. It won't show up. 90g paper outside of that Japanese and Rhoda is needed for shading, laser and never ink jet.

At home 'alone', shading inks are fun.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[Dickkooty2]

The 120s and 140s are vintage with responsive nibs and the spiral fill. Plus they look like Pelikans. Well. of course they are Pelikans and were very popular pens of the people. Available in the classic green/black combos, too!

 

If you are ready for something different that writes well (yes, that color is TEAL ... how '90s can you get!), is a students pen, and has the classic fill ... The Pelikan GO!

 

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj157/dick168/Screen%20Shot%202016-07-07%20at%208.21.07%20PM_zpszl8f2ayf.png

 

On the Bay with and without the package, Around ≠ $22.00. From the '90s. I have two ... one an edc and one with the packaging for file and reference.

[laurahead108]

This is the most responsive and well-informed forum I have ever had the pleasure to meet

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