Onoto To Identify

[praxim]

Today at a local antique dealer I picked up an Onoto. It is a lever fill celluloid pen with 14K nib, as pictured below. I have scoured about the place without being able to come to a clear identification, so would appreciate some help. Some of what I think I know is after the photos.

 

Complete inscriptions on the pen are as follows:

The clip carries the dLr symbol.

There are NO bands on the cap, nor sign any were there in the past.

Nib has side fins (blurry photo).

Nib is marked:

DELARUE

ONOTO

14C

LONDON

17

I have never before seen mention of a 17 nib.

The barrel carries the inscription:

ONOTO THE PEN

DE LA RUE & Co Ltd LONDON

The tailpiece is marked on the edge

850

 

The sac has perished and rattles about in flakes inside. There is evident leakage, now firmly encrusted, where the section joins the barrel. The pen has crossed tines as you can see from the nib photo but I think I can fix that. Tipping looks OK and the lever works normally.

 

From reading, it seems this pen is conceivably 1930s (earliest lever was 1924) but I think more likely is at least a decade later. The fact that there are no cap rings, which lack I have not seen in any other Onoto picture, implies a cheaper period of manufacture. During the war, perhaps? However, it was made in Britain and not in Australia if we are to believe the inscriptions so we have somewhere between 1938 and 1958 by my reckoning. The thoroughly deceased sac perhaps makes it closer to 1940-1950, say, than 1958. I suspect the clip looks brassed because that is what it is, brass which was never gold plated. The lever looks the same. This would be consistent with no gold rings on the cap.

 

Has anyone seen a #17 nib before? What does the '850' marking on the barrel top edge mean? Is it a serial rather than a model?

 

All help appreciated.

 

First I will try to repair the nib. If it will write properly when dipped then I will move on to replacing the sac. Apart from micro-scratches the pen is completely unmarked, no evident scratches, no chips, so it should be able to come up as a nice little unit.

[barriep]

Wartime pens were sometimes made without gold cap bands but Onoto did make 56xx models in the mid-30s also without cap bands.

[peterg]

I would guess 1940-50 too. Lever fill Onotos are fairly rare. DLR tended to mark their lever fill pens De La Rue rather than Onoto so I would guess that it was produced during the 'export or die' period during and just after the war and DLR were making use of the better regarded Onoto brand name to improve sales.

[MikeW]

Well, FWIW, Stephen Hull's new Onoto book should be out this fall, I think, so you can check it in there. I can't wait to get mine. I have his Conway Stewart (may it "RIP") book and others. Always terrific stuff!

 

Cheers!

MikeW

[praxim]

I see that Onoto's web site advertises a repair book by four authors including Stephen Hull. Is that a useful book or is there a new one coming out, or is it the same thing? Unfortunately it is a book rather than an ebook so it will cost me more to ship it here than to buy it unless it gets stocked locally for some reason (and then probably would cost more than to import anyway).

 

Thanks for the advice so far. I will look in to the 56xx. Wartime or shortly after is what I am thinking. According to available history (possibly here) they kept making a few pens alongside supplies for war activities, and they probably were not fancy under the circumstances.

[Kenlowe]

I see that Onoto's web site advertises a repair book by four authors including Stephen Hull.

 

 

 

 

The website is out of date by the way, especially the list of recommended repairers.

[praxim]

This does not answer the question about the book?

 

Repairers are unimportant to me. I live on the other side of the planet. Maybe I should revert my sig.

[Kenlowe]

You are welcome.

 

Perhaps others will help you on your book question.

[praxim]

I see that Onoto appears to be defunct (again), based on another thread I just viewed from 2015. Is that why you are saying the web site is old?

 

That would presumably mean I could not order that book from then anyway. The split in the modern Onoto company would also explain if Stephen Hull was writing some other book.

[richardandtracy]

The Onoto Repair book is good stuff. I have used it myself to dismantle a couple of Onoto 3000's.

 

It is not the same as the Onoto History book Steve Hull has been writing for a number of years. I think it has been due 'This Autumn' for 3 or 4 years.. I wouldn't hold your breath for it, but I will get a copy when it eventually arrives.

 

From the fact that this January Onoto announced (rather back handedly) new designs via this thread: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/303259-onoto-new-designs/ I suspect the problem is lack of HTML expertise than the company having gone completely.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

[Kenlowe]

I was talking to Steve Hull a couple of weeks ago, the book will be ready soon.

[richardandtracy]

That is good news, but do feel this has happened before.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

[Beechwood]

I saw him at the Midland Pen Show, he was looking to take orders so production must be imminent

[northlodge]

Steve will be selling his book at the London Show in October.

 

It is also possible to order in advance, including a limited edition version.

IIRC the price is £95 / £75

 

as for the No 17 nib, I have listed a Chatsworth today (172266626056) that is sporting such a nib.

[barriep]

I have the Onoto Pen Repair book; it is a paperback and only 34 pages so should not cost much to post. It is worth buying not just for repairing Onotos but for details of the designs and anatomy of the pens.

[praxim]

Thank you barriep and earlier comments on that book.

 

Today I took out my (Swedish, inherited,) jewellery bending pliers and, with a bit of teflon tape for protection, brought the bad tine back into alignment. At only the second effort it wrote quite nicely so I left it at that for the present although I think further tuning of the gap and a slight polish may be needed later. I was taught by the original owner of those pliers that with metal bends or dents, it is important to choose carefully where you apply pressure and not to overdo the repair at first attempt.

 

Next, I will have a go at cleaning up "ink glue" before removing the section to get at the sac.

 

Meanwhile, I have become more interested in Onoto and am thinking about adding a plunge filler pen.

[northlodge]

 

Next, I will have a go at cleaning up "ink glue" before removing the section to get at the sac.

 

Meanwhile, I have become more interested in Onoto and am thinking about adding a plunge filler pen.

 

Note that the section on the DLR models are a notoriously tight fit. They take more care than most to remove without damaging the pen.

[PeterBeoworld]

Is there a site from which we can pre-order the book? I have the Conway Stewart book and it is superb and would be very keen to get the Onoto book.

[peterg]

You could go to e-bay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fountain-Pens-For-The-Million-The-History-of-Conway-Stewart-1905-2005-by-S-Hull-/401146339626?hash=item5d662f612a:m:mcf9Lpp41X-QGQUYcLu1aJQ

 

and ask how to pre order the Onoto book or pick it up at the London Pen Show (if it has been published by then).

[praxim]

Thank you for the tip Northlodge. I will take extra care. Given the ink leakage I can expect this one to be still more firmly held, which brings me to cleaning.

 

I have not worked with a celluloid pen before. Indeed, I did not mean ever to buy celluloid except this one was lying about the place looking neglected. I gather it has little tolerance for heat although I can control how much it gets. Is it safe to soak for an extended period, or to drop entirely into an ultrasonic cleaner? Which of those three options would be fairly safe and effective, or do I run through the lot (soak, ultrasound, heat, wiggle)?