What Do Each Brand Represent For The Regular Punter?

[Leonil]

Hi all,

 

I was just in my local department store and the clerk told me that Fountain Pen Brands are viewed in different ways. He told me that pens for the regular buyer tend to be pens under $100 and most dont want to spend more than $50 on a pen in general according to sale results at the store.

 

However, brands like Mont Blanc, Parker and Waterman sell regularly for over $100 but rarely past $300 at this store that sells lots of stationary. Most regular punters dont touch or even look at Lamy due to the "student" and "cheap" look most Lamy's have for this price range and people avoid brands that are known among people like us but unknown to the masses - so brands like Monteverde, Cross, Pelikan etc at this store are hard to move - Even cheap pens for $30 that are quite nice dont move. He also told me that people looking for a present stay away from Pilot products when told the brand if the same one that sells ballpoints - a lof of his customers say "Really? It's really expensive" when they realise the Metropolitan is double digits for a fountain pen etc.

 

So I was thinking - Do you have similar views of each brand? Do they represent something to you?

 

For me, Parker represents a luxury brand much like a BMW or a Mercedes - expensive but nice, and performs well, where Mont Blanc represents the Rolls Royce, looks old, outdated for me, too expensive and can be outperformed by cheaper brands and you only really buy it for the name (thats only a perception of course.) Where as something like a Jinhao represents the working mans pen - the man in the Armani suit that was on sale but no one notices.

 

What do you think?

[TheRealMikeDr]

If you view it as a tool then certainly - spending even $50 is quite a bit.

 

If you view it as something else - status symbol or luxury item - then the sky is the limit! Personally I'm in the middle somewhere. I buy some luxury items (cars) and buy generic items for other areas (clothing) etc. For pens I enjoy both - my Jinhao 159 is a really nice pen and gets used as much as my Montblanc 146 these days. Luxury pens, like any other luxury product, are typically aimed at a small subset of buyers. It's easy to lose sight of that on Internet forums because you get many serious pen fanatics spending time here - people who own many many pens - many of which cost well beyond $100 - whereas a retail store likely has people who for the vast majority don't even look at FPN and think $30 for a pen is a lot.

 

I spent an hour in a pen shop in Chicago earlier this year and while I was there maybe 5 people came in and all of them were looking to get refills for their (ballpoint/rollerball) pens. I suspect that's a big part of their business - that and the occasional $50 fancy pen! The "high-end" Parker and Montblanc pen buyers are a very small number in the grand scheme of things.

Edited July 1, 2016 by TheRealMikeDr

[pajaro]

If you view it as a tool then certainly - spending even $50 is quite a bit.

 

If you view it as something else - status symbol or luxury item - then the sky is the limit! Personally I'm in the middle somewhere. I buy some luxury items (cars) and buy generic items for other areas (clothing) etc. For pens I enjoy both - my Jinhao 159 is a really nice pen and gets used as much as my Montblanc 146 these days. Luxury pens, like any other luxury product, are typically aimed at a small subset of buyers. It's easy to lose sight of that on Internet forums because you get many serious pen fanatics spending time here - people who own many many pens - many of which cost well beyond $100 - whereas a retail store likely has people who for the vast majority don't even look at FPN and think $30 for a pen is a lot.

 

I spent an hour in a pen shop in Chicago earlier this year and while I was there maybe 5 people came in and all of them were looking to get refills for their (ballpoint/rollerball) pens. I suspect that's a big part of their business - that and the occasional $50 fancy pen! The "high-end" Parker and Montblanc pen buyers are a very small number in the grand scheme of things.

 

I have had the Jinhao and the Montblanc 146. I used the Jinhao seldom. It's another modern C/C pen that I had to wake up with wetting and filling each time I wanted to try it, so I left off trying it. The MB 146 I have now writes easily and readily whenever I want to use it. So, perhaps there is a point to the apparent luxury.

[TheRealMikeDr]

 

I have had the Jinhao and the Montblanc 146. I used the Jinhao seldom. It's another modern C/C pen that I had to wake up with wetting and filling each time I wanted to try it, so I left off trying it. The MB 146 I have now writes easily and readily whenever I want to use it. So, perhaps there is a point to the apparent luxury.

 

I wasn't impressed with my Jinhao x450 - VERY small sweetspot - very fussy writer. My Jinhao 159 on the other hand has been a very very pleasant surprise. No hard starts and never skips and feels/looks very nice IMO. I really enjoy writing with it. In fact I just ordered a Jinhao 500 today ($4.98!!) - looking forward to trying it out.

 

My 146 writes very well too. It sat for two weeks while I was away and wrote without missing a beat when I got back - it's a wonderful pen for sure.

[jar]

I really have no idea what "the average punter" is these days. If I judged by the advertisements meant to sell products then then "the average punter" is an ignorant young male or female far more concerned with fun than anything else and totally isolated from contact with reality.

 

No fountain pen or particular marque means much of anything to "the average punter"; they are simply irrelevant idiosyncrasies that at most are tolerated if found in those who might be useful.

[Calabria]

I have to laugh about Jar's comment. My students - who are "average punters" - were discussing fountain pens before class, and I overheard one of them, who obviously spends quite a lot of money on fashion, say: "I had an expensive fountain pen and lost the cap and now it's useless. Who wants to spend money on that?"

I was thinking - how do you "loose" a fountain pen cap?

[ac12]

I like my Parkers, but Parker has a huge range of pens from the inexpensive student pens, all the way up to EXPENSIVE pens. My prior exposure had been limited to the lower and middle range Parkers.

Today, my collection includes the former top line model, the Vacumatics, which in used form is now affordable. This is just like buying old film cameras, where I can afford top line cameras that I could not afford when they were new.

 

In my mind, MB is a luxury pen, and seems to be generally over priced.

But that is similar to the top end of other brands; Parker, Pelikan, etc.

 

My impression of the various Chinese brands are that they give you a LOT for the money. So they are good pens for students and people where the pen is used in a high risk environment, and the loss of an inexpensive pen will not financially hurt.

Edited July 1, 2016 by ac12

[Leonil]

I love these responses - I am learning a lot as a new Fountain Pen user. I guess I just have a soft spot for Parker as that is what my parents used, the cheaper ballpoints are what I bought for school and I love refilling them with gel ball points. So when I got my first fountain pen as a gift, my natural inclination was to buy a nice, fancy Parker Fountain Pen as my first personally bought one. It should arrive in a week from now!

 

BUT what are people's thoughts on say, the cheaper $50 and below pens? I just visited a local store that sells fine stationary and they sell $30 Cross pens, $60 Lamy Safaris and Al Stars. What are people's thoughts on those brands and most of all, do people see/feel any practical difference between the price as well as the differnece between brands at this cheaper price point? Are they pretty much all the same (even if the Cross pens are metal and the Lamy pens are plastic?

[ISW_Kaputnik]

I have to laugh about Jar's comment. My students - who are "average punters" - were discussing fountain pens before class, and I overheard one of them, who obviously spends quite a lot of money on fashion, say: "I had an expensive fountain pen and lost the cap and now it's useless. Who wants to spend money on that?"

I was thinking - how do you "loose" a fountain pen cap?

 

Well, if it comes loose you might lose it.

 

Yes, I know what you mean. Kids get nice things without understanding them, or appreciating that they need to take care of them.

[ISW_Kaputnik]

...BUT what are people's thoughts on say, the cheaper $50 and below pens? I just visited a local store that sells fine stationary and they sell $30 Cross pens, $60 Lamy Safaris and Al Stars. What are people's thoughts on those brands and most of all, do people see/feel any practical difference between the price as well as the differnece between brands at this cheaper price point? Are they pretty much all the same (even if the Cross pens are metal and the Lamy pens are plastic?

 

The specific features and designs are different, and that's what is most likely to make a difference for you. The Lamy Safari and AL Star have triangular grip sections and a distinctive look which some people like and others hate (I'm more or less neutral). On the other hand, you can buy spare nibs for them, and they are very easy to swap out if you want to change the way your writing looks.

 

My one Cross pen is well enough made, but the cap doesn't post securely and the medium nib is a bit broader than I like. Some people might like the nib, and never post their caps anyway.

 

In this price range, Pilot has their Prera, which is very small and light. I like that, others might not.

 

Anyway, if you're not talking about some dodgy brand that you never heard of, I think it makes more sense to concentrate on the individual features of the pen than on "Brand X vs. Brand Y".

[Sandy Fry]

Never knew that the fountain pen world had " regular punters. "

 

I think pen buying has a lot to do with whatever your personal disposable income is. What you consider expensive, someone else might consider cheap. Price is not the biggest consideration I judge any pen on. If a pen appeals to me and I can afford it then I will buy it.

 

I have a few Cross pens. Folks seem to pan them but I have had zero problems with any of mine. They are fairly well made, tough and smooth writers. Love the Lamy Safari but not a fan of any of their other pens. Parker, love the older ones but not a huge fan of the modern ones.

 

I have pens ranging from cheap Chinese $0.99 or less up to $3,000+ and I consider myself a user rather than a collector.

 

A pen is a pen is a pen. It's worth what YOU are willing to pay for it. Regular punters buy $1.00 a dozen throwaway ballpens or whatever they can find at work.

 

David

[praxim]

The regular punter is an average of people, not a person. From my inevitably selective experience, I expect that, on average, a person you meet in the street will know what is a fountain pen but not use one. To lean one way rather than the other, it is more likely they will not even know what a fountain pen is than that they use one..

 

So, what do they think of brands? Re-align or re-state the question. This forum is called Fountain Pen Network for a reason, and it is not because we are keen on debating Ford vs GM.

[max dog]

I never hear the term punter used where I live except when referring to a game of football and the punter has to kick the ball for a field goal.

[kazoolaw]

... it is not because we are keen on debating Ford vs GM.

We debate that endlessly.

 

And section shapes, metal or not, post the cap or not, the inherent cheapness of certain Asian pens, whether there is an "e" in the word for paper products used for writing letters, fat or thin sections, whether Cross Is good for anything other than skinny gold ballpoints, did Parker go in the trash can when the English plant closed, Sheaffer vs Parker in the Golden Age, user vs collector, classic black cigar vs boring vs bling, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

 

It's more important what opinions you form, based on experience. It'll be a long, unhappy trek through life making decisions by following the crowd.

 

gary

 

PS-the original post reminds me of the quip about the English and Americans being separated by a common language.

[praxim]

I pretty much agree with you gary, except for the slight point that my purpose in saying "Ford vs GM" was not to say we do not debate small differences, but rather to point out this is a fountain pen site and not so much a car enthusiast site. Therefore, we are not "regular punters" with regard to fountain pens and very probably unlikely to know what the "regular punter with regard to fountain pens" thinks, if they can be said to exist anyway.

[kazoolaw]

praxim-

 

I'd like to respond, but have discovered that I REALLY don't know what a punter is.

 

I've found it defined as an (American) football player, one who uses a punt (a type of boat), a prostitute's customer (yikes!), a gambler, a routine customer.

 

So, without an OED I concede the field.

 

gary

Edited July 2, 2016 by gary

[Fuzzy_Bear]

Gary, in this case, a regular person.

 

I use a variety of pens. I am a maintenance man, school bus driver, DB designer and maintainer, and father. My daily use pens are a pair of Lamy Al-Stars. They take a beating. I sometimes carry one of my TWSBI'S.

 

But I have Esterbrooks, a Parker 51 I just found at an estate sale, plus the usual $5 chair cheapie pens. Even have several Shaeffer school pens. It's more personal taste.

 

I personally feel MB is one of the most well known brand because it is one if the most advertised brands. I go for cost vs. performance. However, on dressup days, the black Esties go in the jacket pocket.

[langere]

Although there is probably general agreement within the pen community about the prestige of different brands, I bet it varies across country as well. Thus, in Europe I have the sense that Waterman is seen more as a luxury brand than in the U.S. (or it just might be a function of who I hang out with...). For example, the brands from India probably have a very different cachet in South Asia than they do elsewhere in the world, where they are not as well known.

 

And then there is nostalgia, which is highly personal.

 

However, I would argue that FPN and other such forums are great places to form your own opinion and, once you feel confident enough after sufficient experience in the fountain pen world, help shape opinions as well.

 

Erick

[KBeezie]

Personal preference and while there are some brands I own that would be considered 'luxery', I tend to see them more as tools... that I enjoy using and baby, and check-over and photograph... but in the end they are *my* tools, for *my* use. Their primary intent is not to wow my peers as 99% of my peers in real life wouldn't know the difference between a Montblanc 149 and a Jinhao 159.

 

My personal preference just takes me to having taste in things that tend to be more expensive even if something a fraction of the cost/value gets the job done.

 

But far as each brand having their regular punters (which I see as being said as their 'workhorse' or regular 'go-to'), I think that's going to be different for everyone but I see it as like this (and this in no way reflects the reality of actually moving the pens in a retail sense):

 

Montblanc : 144/146/LeGrand/Classique

Lamy : Safari/2000

Pilot : Varsity/Metropolitan on the low, VP/74/91/etc on the mid

Platinum : Preppy/Balance on the low, Century 3776 on the mid

Pelikan : M200/M400

Kaweco : Sport/ALSport

Faber-Castell : Loom/Ambition

Parker : Vector/IM (though in my opinion the 45 and 51 were ideal workhorses).

 

and so forth.

 

Far as retailers go, whatever gives the best margin, which I feel like is typically going to be the Yafa brands that are more cheaply made and can be sold with a higher margin with a flashier appearance. Plus I don't think Yafa requires any brick and mortar retailer to take up an entire section of their store on just their product like some brands.

[Wahl]

I would say the "average person " does not know or care about FP brands.