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Advice On A Franklin Christoph Ice Ed'ed

franklin christoph 66 stabilis ice eyedropper

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22 replies to this topic

#1 Uncial

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 13:41

I have had the worst luck when it comes to Eyedropper pens. They always burp and leak on me, really badly. I had hoped that the 66 Stabilis I ordered wouldn't have had the same issues, seeing the nib unit was a screw in type of one piece. Sadly this was not to be, but I would like to get other peoples' experiences just in case I'm doing something wrong or there is an actual fault with the nib unit.

 

I have the pen eyedroppered and filled with Sailor ink. I followed the instructions on the Franklin Christoph website about greasing the threads of the nib unit and the thread of the barrel. I turn the pen nib up and warm it thoroughly in my hand before use. To write one side of an A4 page I have to blot away the burps and leaks at least eight times on a mound of tissue paper while constantly turning the pen up to check it isn't about to make a huge mess on the page. After an A4 page half of the ink contents of the barrel are gone; just to give you an idea of how much ink the pen is expelling. When it first started to do it I thought I mustn't have greased the threads on the nib unit enough and ink was escaping and creeping down between the unit and the section, but it isn't. The ink is actually expelling out the bottom of the unit itself at the point where the feed meets the end of the unit. Is this a fault?



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#2 tinta

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 15:07

This is exactly what I have been fearing about ED pens. 

My smoke F-C Iterum (#03) can easily be turned into an eyedropper.  Both the nib's collar & the section-to-barrel threads have a nice tight fit.   With a light coating of silicone grease this should give me a secure seal. 

But,...I have procrastinated trying out ED filling because I don't like inky fingers or a potential mess during use. 

I'll carefully follow this thread to hear the experiences of others.


Edited by tinta, 22 June 2016 - 16:07.

*Sailor 1911-M, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Standard sized Brown Marbled Mozaique,(machined acrylic/rhodium),14c. 1.0 mm.CI (JM) *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm (BLS) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. (BLS) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#3 Uncial

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 15:36

I can actually see a very clear line of the seal of the silicone grease around the nib unit's upper threads in the section and being a demonstrator of course, I can see that no ink is escaping that way at all. It's what makes me wonder if it is actually the unit itself as the issue. Other eyedroppers I have that leak and burp do so because the feed and nib are in two parts and held friction fit to make a seal, which often doesn't work very well.



#4 Uncial

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 15:57

It has expelled all of its ink! 

Ah, a faulty nib unit I suspect. I've contacted FC. It may be best to remove the thread, thanks.



#5 J_MM

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 15:59

I have the FC model 20 and cannot use it in ED mode. It burps regularly. I suspect the barrel wall is too thin and transfers heat too quickly.

 

I should say that I use Indian ED pens daily with no issues at all. A good ED pen with a modern plastic feed should not be burping at all. 


Edited by J_MM, 22 June 2016 - 16:05.


#6 tinta

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 16:17

AFAIK the three piece JoWo nib-units used by F-C are made up of a collar threaded (on the bottom) into the pen's section.  The feed & nib is then friction fit into this collar. 

Uncial, from where exactly did your ink escape?  

Was ink leaking out through the space between the feed & the nib?

Is the barrel on the 66 Stablis one piece?


Edited by tinta, 22 June 2016 - 16:19.

*Sailor 1911-M, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Standard sized Brown Marbled Mozaique,(machined acrylic/rhodium),14c. 1.0 mm.CI (JM) *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm (BLS) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. (BLS) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#7 Uncial

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 16:22

The ink leaks from where I mentioned in the opening post - from where the feed meets the plastic unit (or collar). I'm almost 100% certain it's a fault -  these things happen - if I hold it nib down over a page using two fingers at the clear section at the end of the barrel it literally drip, drip, drips onto the page. I've contacted FC and I'm waiting to hear back from them.



#8 tinta

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 16:23

So, they cut a faulty female thread into the section?


*Sailor 1911-M, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Standard sized Brown Marbled Mozaique,(machined acrylic/rhodium),14c. 1.0 mm.CI (JM) *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm (BLS) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. (BLS) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#9 Uncial

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 16:31

No, it's not leaking from through the section, it's leaking through the nib unit. If you imagine holding a nib upright and you are looking down on that from above (i.e. the tip of the nib facing you with the feed underneath) at the base of the feed, underneath the nib and feed, where the feed meets the black plastic unit in which it is housed, ink is expelled from here in blobs, runs down through the feed and drips out the end of the nib (when writing or when simply holding or storing the pen nib down). I went out for a hour and came back to a mess and an empty barrel. Left on its side the feed saturates with ink with little puddles on it.



#10 Uncial

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 17:07

Can anyone recommend an ink they have used to ED this pen that has been trouble free?

I'm just trying to try and eliminate other factors (like ink) if I can, thanks.



#11 TheGreatRoe

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 17:22

In reading the thread so far I'm wondering if you are conflating leaking and burping into one problem.  The silicone grease is meant to stop the pen from leaking through threads that aren't completely watertight.  But in my experience EDs burping is a completely different problem.  I have tried a couple of different pens that are solely ED, I've tried 2 ED-friendly pens as ED, and I've tried an Edison Menlo (which isn't an ED, but has a large ink capacity, so from a liquid dynamics POV, it has similar problems).  With all of these pens I've had burping.  An ED pen burping happens because your hand heats up the body of the pen and the ink inside, heat makes liquid and air expand, and the only place it has to expand is through the nib.  People with warmer than usual hand (me for instance) is going to be prone to burping.  Leaking is something that happens through seal (or cracks, etc) and will happen whether you are using the pen or not.

 

There are ways to mitigate each problem, but first you need do determine which is happening with your pen.  I suspect you are having a burping problem, and suggest you search the forum for general ways to deal with it.  Personally, I found burping enough of a problem that I got rid of all my ED pens.


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#12 KBeezie

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 17:23

IF air is able to get in around the edge of the nib/feed collar, then the air exchange may cause the ink to flow much more wetly thru the nib.

So you may want to try unscrewing the nib unit and inspecting around it to check for cracks, or if the unit is a bit thinner than the section inner diameter itself.

Worse case scenario before considering warranty replacement (As they should have a life time warranty), is you can grease around the threads of the nib unit itself, being careful not to get it behind it (as you don't want grease into the feed).

Sometimes the lack of airtightness doesn't leak from the spot where it's not airtight but rather the path of least resistance, right out of the nib if air can replace the ink behind it.

Edited by KBeezie, 22 June 2016 - 17:24.


#13 Uncial

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 17:30

The burping issue does concern. If it is just something that people put up with in respect of ED's then it's not for me. However, enough people claim that this particular model doesn't burp.

As I stated above though, I left it for an hour, I wasn't touching it, and the pen emptied. I strongly suspect it isn't meant to do that.

I'm just looking for an ink now that others have used without issue to try as an ED. There is a small chance that the Sailor Kingdom Note Ink (Pheasant) is too....something....and not suited to ED. If I can get another ink known to be ok and I still have the same issues, then I eliminate that possibility before I make a return of the pen.

I must add, FC have been very good and super prompt in their responses.



#14 KBeezie

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 18:28

Burping happens while writing, and won't just leak out while sitting, so sounds like air is getting in somewhere.

#15 Tootles

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 19:22

I have the same pen and don't (at least so far) have an issue with burping ink.  Uncial, what nib do you have in there? I'm just wondering if there is a difference in likelihood of this happening between say an extra fine and a broad.



#16 strictlyobiter

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 19:29

Well we're in the same climate Uncial and I have the same issues with a burping model 66. I just use it as a converter pen without any issues. Mine burps when I'm actually writing.

#17 Uncial

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 20:50

I have the same pen and don't (at least so far) have an issue with burping ink.  Uncial, what nib do you have in there? I'm just wondering if there is a difference in likelihood of this happening between say an extra fine and a broad.

I've got a fine cursive italic. The nib is a dream; far better than I expected.

What inks have you used in yours?



#18 Tootles

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 20:53

I've only used two, and both behaved well: Iroshizuku Tsukiyo and Diamine Teal. 



#19 Uncial

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 20:57

Thanks, EoC.



#20 Uncial

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 22:01

Well isn't that the darndest thing!

 

FC have been great, I must say. They've been really clear, patient and prompt in replying and said from the outset that they would get it fixed and working correctly. Rather than send the pen back straight away they asked me to do two things. From the sounds of it they thought it might have been a problem with an ill fitting section, much like KBeezie was saying about air getting in somewhere and forcing the ink through. The first thing I was to do was fill it via the converter with the same ink. I did this and I could see that the feed fins were still getting swamped with ink - right to the very edges - yet no burping, although it was a bit messy. Then they asked me to fill it with a different ink. I asked them what they would recommend and they of course said their own ink......or Diamine. 

 

I decided to ask here what others have used and EoC kindly mentioned what he uses, trouble free. I was reading other reviews, write ups, looking at pics where the ink is named, and while there was a huge variance of inks out there (to be expected of course) there was one brand that seemed to get a mention more than all others. Yep, you guessed it; Diamine. So, I thought Steel Blue might look pretty good in it and eyedroppered it up. It's been in there for about forty minutes and I've just set it down from a decent few pages of writing to compose this. No burps, no drips, no sign of ink over-saturating the feed. I'm hoping that I've nailed the issue as the ink. Time tomorrow and a bit more usage will tell, but the signs are promising.

 

The weird thing is that it seems to have been down to the ink. It's just the darndest thing!







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