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Pelikan 140 Vs Pelikan 400 / 400Nn Nib


josera

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Hi,

 

which diferences are there between the Pelikan 140 and the contemporany Pelikan 400 / 400N / 400NN?

 

Is it the same nib? and what about the feeder?

 

Thanks!

 

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Hi Josera,

 

No, it´s not. 140 has a smaller nib and feed.

 

Please check this link to see the diferences in shape, size, colors, Materials, production periods, etc

 

https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com/en/Pelikan/Models/Revised-Piston-Fillers/index.html.

Edited by piscov

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Flex is not related with a particular pen model on Pelikan, you have flex nibs in both Pelikan 140 and Pelikan 400 series. I would say flex can only be judged nib by nib. You will find from Extra flex to Rigid nibs on both pen models.

 

Here you can find info about the nibs:

https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com/en/Pelikan/Nibs/Nibs/index.html

 

Dominic´s website is the best resource I know on Pelikan, but on Pelikan 140 nibs some info still needs to be added, there are missing at least 3 types of nibs used in Pelikan 140 production period. 2 are 14K gold and a CN ( steel) nib

Edited by piscov

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Hi again Josera,

 

Pelikan 400 and 140 nibs have exactly the same engravings, only size differentiates them, So probably only side by side you will realize you have a 140 or a 400 series nib. The most comum are the double chevron style one ( 2nd nib on first pictures. Nibs like the one on the second picture are also possible in early Pelikan 140.

 

All this images are for Pelikan 400 or 100N nibs that are larger in size but the ones found on Pelikan 140 are exactly the same but smaller in size. Feeds are also smaller in length but have the same diameter so although not historically correct they will fit and work properly.

 

Pelikan-400-More-common-nibs.jpg

 

100N-14-karat.jpg

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Understood! Thanks

 

Is there nibs for the 140 with the double line, and the Pelikan logo engraved on them? Just like the second nib of your picture:

 

Pelikan-400-More-common-nibs.jpg

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Yes, the 3 nibs pictured are possible in the 140. The most common is in fact the one you just asked about. There is also some Pelikan 140 with a CN nib ( Black with silver trims at least. If you are looking for such nib I have few to spare ;)

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Vasco

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The identical (but different in size) nibs on my 140 and on both 400 and 400NN.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

140 on left and 400 on right.

Edited by mitto

Khan M. Ilyas

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Pelikan made H=hard nibs, D=tank destroying nibs and Steno nibs that are 'reputed' to be superflex. The one I tried was 'true' regular flex to my disappointment.

 

As far as I can tell from what I have and much reading...only have two 140's, all 140's outside a H or D nib, will be semi-flex.

'50-65 era. I have a 400 D, :angry: ...nails are not my thing....much less a nail's nail.

I have a 400&400n in semi-flex, a 400nn&500 in maxi-semi-flex.

 

If you mash a 120 or 200 or any true regular flex hard, it will give you a 3 X tine spread.

(A semi-nail like the modern post '97 400/600 won't give you that but more towards a 2 X tine spread....nail if very strong 1 1/4th max tine spread.)

A semi-flex when mashed will take half as much pressure as a 'true' regular flex to expand the tines to 3 X.

A maxi-semi-flex takes half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed to flex it's tines 3 X.

 

True Regular flex, semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex are in a 3 X max tine spread; trying to spread them like a superflex above 3 X will sooner than later spring the nib.

Richard Binder has a great article on how to spring your nibs....well worth reading.

 

There is no way to tell if you have a semi or maxi until you have it to try.

 

I would and do always suggest getting a 140 which is semi-flex in most to many of us are ham fisted from ball points & nail &semi-nail. A semi-flex has the strength to over live ham fistedness.

It took me some 3 months with a semi-flex to get my Hand lighter....not every letter or word need be written with max tine spread. Sooner or later you stop pressing quite so hard.

Three months after I got my 140 :puddle: OB....and nib sizes back then were @ 1/2 width narrower than modern...so a B or OB is like a M-fat M, and a nice writing nib.....Not a Signature nib like a modern B. I got a 400NN in maxi-semi-flex....and my Hand had become only Slightly Ham Fisted, instead of Ham Fisted.

I do think if you are Ham Fisted enough you can ruin a maxi-semi-flex nib. That is why I always suggest a 140 or a Geha 790 (best buy) as a good pen to start into semi-flex with.

 

If you go to our sales section, there should be enough folks that know the difference between a semi-flex and a maxi. Buy the semi-flex and wait 3 months for your Hand to become naturally lighter before getting a maxi.

 

I have some 25 semi-flex and 15 maxi-semi-flex.

The Osmia or Osmia-Faber-Castell is the only pen make I can think of that gives you a clear choice of semi & maxi. The nib with the Diamond and the number in it ....Is semi-flex. The ones that say Supra are maxi-semi-flex.

 

Do not be gold stupid like I was....the Osmia in steel or gold is =!!!!!.....as is the Geha...of the '50-60''s. (So far 5 of my Geha's are semi-flex two are maxi...buy only if you don't have the early '50's ones, the 790, 760 or 780. Of which the 790 is easiest to find...I have 4.) In Pelikan bought up Geha in 1990 and closed down it's pen division to stop school kid pen competition, I'll count Geha as a Pelikan....... :lticaptd: 1993 Lamy brought out the Safari.....which might not have been the run away it was if Geha was still making it's school pens. :huh:

 

The Geha 725 is also a semi-flex pen only....one of the sleekest of all pens ever made. Problems is buying of Ebay is if the inlaid nib is pulling away ... no repair. And after 50 years the cap can develop a micro crack....hard to see. My pen was flawless, then three days later....a micro crack. I would still recommend one. It was developed to stomp MB and did. Rolled gold trim, it is astounding what two lines in a clip can do to making a classic. Sleek, one of my first three perfectly balanced pens....and you do have to post a pen to have perfect balance....It is medium-long like a P-51 or 600.

 

Large pens will never be perfectly balanced....to short with out the cap, and too long and heavy with it. IMO only medium-short with a long cap like a 140 or 760, standard like a Esterbrook DJ, or 400 or medium-long like a P-51 or 600 and the Large :o thin Snorkel are pens with great balance.

The medium-large '50-60's 146 has much better balance than the Large 146.

 

Of course they have to be posted....some folks refuse to post a middle sized pen, for religious reasons, and then have the nerve to complain they are not long enough. :headsmack: :doh:

 

An Osmia or OFC might need to be recorked....do it....it's not made to be yanked apart every couple of months to put silicon grease on O rings.

A properly boiled in mineral oil & beesway slathered with silicon grease cork should last you 70 or more if you and yours use it.

Great pens. I have seven...they were at my border limit. :wallbash:

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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I have a 140 EF and a 400 NN EF. I find that the 140 nib has more flex compared to the 400 NN but the 400 NN's nib is better in the sense that it doesn't railroad ever. While the 140's nib does.

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I think you are pressing the 140 much much too hard....may have even sprung it. At 3 X a light line max tine spread there is no 'railroading'.

 

How is your feed....all four combs still?

 

 

('30-40's had three combs....and my 100n, is Superflex (Easy Full Flex...the stage before Wet Noodle), has three combs/rills for faster ink flow.

 

Take a rubber baby ear syringe (your second one...the other for cleaning the barrel and C/C pens) cut it so you can force water through the feed....there may be something clogging the flow...hard water pressure may flush it free.

A 1-10 ammonia soaking may help clear your ink channel of what is starving your nib.

 

But I think you are pressing to hard, wide and may have sprung your nib....how wide do you spread your tines?

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for your help! Everything is much clear now.

 

A last question: Is the size of the old 140 nib similar to the current M300 nib?

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  • 1 month later...

~ The semi-flex 140 M I'm using is outstanding in all respects.



Easy to hold, superb feedback, a delightful line with flexibility if desired.



I happen to like Montblanc 149 OBBB nibs, yet my diminutive Pelikan 140 is a charmer.



It's inked with Montblanc Irish Green ink.



Tom K.


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  • 5 months later...

Hi! Thank you so much for these discussions! It really helps so much.

 

I was wondering re line variation, do I really need to buy an oblique anything, from the vintage 50's-60's era of the 140 or 400NN, if I do not necessarily twist when I write? Will it make it much harder for me to write properly? Or will it be enough to get a regular vintage B, to have some line variation? Will it show enough variation? For modern pens, I tend to prefer a medium with my handwriting, and adore cursive italics, italics, and stubs. Thanks for any advice!!

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I love the German semi&maxi-semi-flex obliques of that era.

 

We use to have many threads of folks that couldn't do it right.

 

Part of the problem I solved....in I had so many ...some 14-15 obliques with some flex.... back then, some 16 now.

 

What is not noticed was that there were Oblique grinds of @ 15 degrees and @ 30 degrees. I have OBB, OB Om and OF in both. A few extra 30 degree too, I assume. I really don't keep account as much as one would expect. :rolleyes: :blush: They are a mix of semi&maxi. I became less OCD than I once was.

 

Only Osmia/Osmia-Faber-Castel has a clear semi-flex....the nibs with the diamond...most with the size of the nib.....And the Supra nibs which are maxi-semi-flex.

All others I have are pure luck to if the nib is semi-flex and or maxi-semi-flex. I have changed my mind in I have read others have 140 nibs that are more flexible than the semi-flex nibs they have.

I've deleted an exact count of my semi&maxi of the era.

 

I had a 140 OB for my first Oblique. :drool: :puddle: It's sweet spot was wide enough I could learn to cant the nib so it was flat on the paper....with out the trouble an OM or OF would have caused needing a more precise grounding of the nib.

 

First look to see how much grind your Oblique nib has @ 15 or @ 30 degrees.

Similar to the 1/3 seem to be maxi, 1/3 seem to be 30 degree. However once there were the fabled 'corner pen stores', and the pen technichian working there might have added 15 degrees of grind at request.

The only question I have of that is why don't I have some @ 22 degree grinds?

That could be factory or that could be the corner pen shop.

 

 

When one is new it could be hard for you to cant your nib......unless you are like many that are left eye dominant and have no problem....in fact those modern nibs of 'true' regular flex,.....like on the 200, or semi-nail 400/600 or nail like the 800 are a waste of money for the minuscule if any line variation on any oblique other than semi and maxi. But they are naturally canted for left eye dominate writers.

For left handers is much exactly which way you hold a pen....if you push, pull instead of pull-push like a right hander a nail Oblique may be what you need.

 

If the nib is 15 degree grind. Post the cap so the clip is lined up between the slit and the right edge of the nib. That automatically cants the nib to the proper angle.

Place the pen on the paper and write.....normally.

 

You don't twist your hand, nor your arm behind your neck or hang on the chandelier. The clip is the line up....re grip the pen so the clip is lined up...and ignore everything as you place the oblique nib canted to the angle of grind on the paper......And Write totally normal. The flex of the nib, the angle of grind will automatically give you the line variation you wish. :notworthy1:

If you press a bit harder you get more 'On Demand' line variation; where Stub and CI is always 100%. If you press a bit lighter.....which you will do after a few months of semi-flex you will still have nice line variation that is natural....not forced by pressing too hard all the time.....trying to do something fancy.

Semi-flex is not a nib for fancy. As my signature says. Semi-flex and Oblique gives you that old fashioned fountain pen script.

An occasional descender on an accent word is fine; bet a book and learn how to draw it properly.

 

Go into a stiff italic nib calligraphy book and learn to draw letters. If a bit lazy, there are descender parts of letters that give you a nice bit of fancy on a ending word.

 

I find it too hard a work to try to fancy all the time with semi-flex or oblique in that flex. You get a nice pretty script with natural line variation at a reasonable speed, but writing normal.

 

Maxi-semi-flex will give you more fancy in the tines bend easier..... :headsmack: :rolleyes: My Italic calligraphy is dust/rusted shut.....but it is on my desk should I ever get ambitious. :)

 

 

 

If the nib is @ 30 degrees, align the clip of the cap as you post the pen to the right hand edge of the nib. Regrip and place the canted nib flat to the grind angle on the paper. Then write.

 

That worked for many...but there was still trouble. Richard cured that.

Some folks have trouble no matter how they line up the nib if they hold the paper at 45 degrees, it has to be straight at 90 or flat at 180.

I never had a problem at 45, but some did.

 

Between my clip alignment, and Richards paper alignment it appears the problems of semi&maxi oblique were solved.

 

Well it took me @ 3 months to lighten my heavy hand with my Pelikan 140 OB from Ham Fisted; to slightly ham fisted.............................just in time for my 400nn OF maxi-semi-flex.

Not that I knew about maxi-semi-flex back then. :bunny01:

 

:unsure: I had to be beaten over the head by a Rupp nib to discover Maxi-semi-flex....even if I had some.

Again, having enough semi-flex ++ nibs will lead to that and I had a Schwartzwald German nibs with some flex to pinball around on. Many didn't have that advantage. That and being occasionally a bit AR. B)

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Thank you so very much for your advice. So I should go for the 140 OB first; then graduate to 400/400N version then, when my writing gets better? Will do! Thanks again!!!

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Yes, I feel I lucked out going to the 140 OB before other semi-flex pens....in it opened my mind to the medium-small pens. All were long posters.

Back then they were cheaper 'by far' than now.

Still it's a better shirt pocket pen.

 

OB was so much easier to use. At first I just used the nib 'normal' and it was a tad scratchy normal, so I twisted the nib a bit in my hand until it was not scratchy. Had I an OM or OF I'd had lots more trouble in they have a narrower sweet spot.

 

The 400nn is a medium-large, the 400 a standard sized pen.

 

As I said, there is a lot of luck to if you get a semi-flex or a maxi-semi-flex nib. Across Pelikan, MB and Geha. (I knew Osmia had it down, to which nib was maxi and semi.)

 

I chased MB so slowly and in live auctions where I could test the nib and knew what I wanted...which was a maxi, in I'd started with a semi-flex '50's MB.

The next MB 50's pen, a rolled gold 742...standard sized...in it is heavy, I had thought it was maxi-semi-flex until I got home and checked it against a maxi. It was in between semi and maxi. The only that I have like that.

There is a bit more variation in maxi than in semi but here was a semi++ or a maxi - -. Still a good nib.

 

Finally, they had a maxi in a medium large 146. So my collection of MB nibs was done. I had a 'true' regular flex from a '70-80's Large 146 and a modern 'Springy' nib on my Woolf.

 

Geha was collected earlier from German Ebay. They were semi-flex.....until I won a OEF. So marked but the nib had been changed out to EF.....how ever that was maxi. It was a major surprise. I'd only a few maxi's and hadn't expected Geha to have any. The seller had nothing to do with that, in like Pelikan Geha has a screw out nib.

Later I decided not to chase semi-flex OEF in the pattern would be so tiny....and be useless for shading inks.

For Shading inks F/OF is about as narrow as one needs go. IMO. EF is too narrow to show much shading.

 

And for semi-flex one does have to match the paper and the ink to the nib,,,,, in semi-flex is a wetter nib due to ease of tine flex.

Often 'true' regular flex in M&F is a better nib for shading inks. And M is so dissed on, when it is a very good nib width. :thumbup:

I found that out when testing MB Toffee, a nice brown shading ink. It was a prejudice I'd picked up on this com. :headsmack:

Folks get a first pen that is M and head narrow or wide...leaving the M in the dust.

If you like shading inks....M is a very good nib.

 

Pelikan....my 100n is Superflex ... Easy Full Flex 5 X tine spread. Something that could be expected. I had thought it originally to be pre summer of '1938 due to the gold nib. But it had a green ink window= after the war. I had never expected to own one of them...and I got it at Someguy price of E20 for near mint.

 

My Ibis (part of a live auction lot...in I never even thought of chasing one) was a surprise not only a gold nib on a lesser Pelikan but Maxi.....my 400nn OF and 500 OBBB are maxi's also.

 

Regular semi-flex, I have the two 140's OB&OF, three 400's OM, OB and B.

(The 400 D nib don't count...it was part of a live auction lot. I'd never wasted my money on the Nail's Nail. Something to take on the North Wall of the Eiger, or for opening Tanks.)

 

Looking back at it, it's astounding. I never thought I'd own a 100/100n, nor a '50's 400. At the beginning...and being retired, tehy were very much over any budget I thought of. I remember breaking the $20...then the $30 border....50- and $70.....(for this $=Euro) my first BCHR pen, and still the sharpest chasing of the 7 or so I own. I'd never expected to own a BCHR pen either.

 


http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o707/boboolson1/fef33556-b654-443a-ae84-9620dc8e1998_zpsnczuq5bb.jpg

In they were out of budget. I didn't realize if I got out of the pen of the month in the mail club, I could afford the pen of the half year. :happyberet: Or pen of the quarter.

 

Not only did I climb a ladder of flex, but of worth.

In a way I pity those who jump for the top of the line pens from the start....many will have a problem looking at less expensive pens....even if they are vintage and better than the modern pen.

Luckily there are enough quite expensive pens to keep them happy too.

 

I'd not thought about an Ibis...in I was a tad snobbish. :headsmack: Dam, what a nib!

 

Humm....got an empty pen to clean,,,so there's space for that Ibis. :)

In I have my Geha School pen out, why not the Ibis.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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There is no guarantee that a 400 or a 400nn would be maxi-semi-flex.

I do feel most 140's will be semi-flex and semi-flex is rugged enough to help tame Ham Fistedness....over a time. In my case three months to get from always pressing hard, big wide wet letters, to only pressing occasionally on certain parts of letters or descender when I wanted to go a bit fancy.

I do suggest just letting the semi-flex nib give you a nice ride and slightly wider letters at the start of the word. Line variation naturally with out trying to do anything extra.

Later when you get a maxi, then it's easier to add a fancy descender. (You could have spent some time with a Italic Calligraphy book drawing letters......mine's drawing dust.) :(

 

Only pen company that is clear with is Osmia/Osmia-Faber-Castell. Diamond with number in it is semi-flex.....Supra on the nib is maxi-semi-flex. The rest is a gamble if it's semi or maxi.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Thanks so much again! I saw a simple Diamond with a number online, that I will try to buy - the one I saw is definitely a more affordable intro to semi-flex. Yay! Thank you for your detailed advice. So helpful!!!

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