Twisted Tines Masquerade As "baby Bottom"

[Precise]

This sketch is an end view of a pen which was a poor starter.

 

 

Although the tines were touching at the top, their twist resulted in a large gap at the bottom where they touch the paper. The ink drew up and out of contact with the paper (as shown in this sketch). Twisting each tine to achieve a parallel gap cured the starting problem.

 

Alan

Edited June 19, 2016 by Precise

[jjlax10]

I think people often mistake this situation for Baby's bottom.

[dubhe]

How did you twist the tines?

[BlueJ]

The proper name for this condition is "inverted Grand Canyon" or something like that.

[wastelanded]

I am amazed at how many old pens I get that have this issue. Did people clean their teeth with them in days of old?

[gregamckinney]

I think this sometimes occurs from folks pushing out the shoulders to increase ink flow. Easy to do that too much.

 

greg

[Precise]

How did you twist the tines?

The photos show a plastic tool that I made.

 

 

Note that the slot is widened at its root to accommodate the iridium tip as in the pic below.

 

 

I use this for twisting tines and for equalizing their height.

 

Alan

Edited June 22, 2016 by Precise

[Tweel]

That's a handy little two-in-one tool you made.

 

I thought, though, that it was the opposite twist, "Grand Canyon" rather than "inverted GC", that was sometimes mistaken for baby's bottom.

[jjlax10]

That's a pretty awesome tool. What is the material and what did you cut it with to make the mouth for the tine?

[Precise]

It's polycarbonate rod. But I've also made one from acetal (Delrin) rod. I cut the slot with a slitting saw, which is a tiny circular saw mounted in my milling machine. I think a hand coping saw would work too.

 

Alan

[mhpr262]

Hmmm, very interesting. I have a Parker Sonnet that I bought used that has revealed exactly this issue under a powerful loupe. It has no starting or skipping problems though, so I am probably going to leave it as it is.

[dubhe]

Thanks for showing us that tool, looks like something that would come in handy so I might need to make one! I wonder if I could cut that slit in with a hot knife?

[XYZZY]

Below is a new Platinum Desk pen with EF nib that arrived a couple days ago. I didn't think to look under the loupe before inking it, so that's Sailor Souboku in there. Due to me not paying attention to my Amazon order, this $8 pen took a month to arrive from overseas, so although I'm going to report it to the dealer I'm inclined to keep this as something to practice on.

 

Both tines are twisted, one a bit more than the other.

 

I'm glad I decided to search for "twisted" before started a new thread asking for how to fix this. Precise, I'm going to try and fabricate something like you've done. Probably my razor saws will be too fine, but boys with toys rarely shy from an opportunity to buy more handtools.

 

Before I saw this thread I was thinking of searching for plastic tweezers, I may still give that a shot, too.

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by XYZZY

[Precise]

Nibmeisters can bend the tines back to the proper orientation with their fingers.

 

I've also used pointed pliers, often called "needle nosed pliers". Like these:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=needle+nose+pliers&num=20&client=opera&hs=89t&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiU1qG5rp7eAhWvg-AKHXqvB6MQ_AUIDigB&biw=1197&bih=594

 

They will scratch a nib, but it should be feasible to first wrap each plier jaw with tape to avoid this.

 

Alan

[Bo Bo Olson]

Great tool...............and I'd not really read about twisted nibs before that I can recall.

 

The comment about too much widening of the slit to make a wetter pen.....is something I have to remember, the next time I give advice in that direction.

 

 

I'm sort of lucky....had enough wet writing semi-flex that I didn't have to do that but two or so times. I don't really think I had to....but just had a pen or two where I could try it.

Have wet ink for dry nibs. (Now have slicker papers too....which took me quite a while to get wise and spend the money on.)

 

I could never understand why someone would want all his pens to write exactly the same. wettness...say 8 on the 10 scale..............they don't get to play with inks and papers.............then what happens if they run into a wet ink or slick paper....that would make a 9 or 10?

 

Inks and papers can make a nib write wider or narrower....along with the writers's hand.

 

We so live in the Golden Age of Inks......not only every shade and hue, but wet and dry in that shade and hue.

[Karmachanic]

Nibmeisters can bend the tines back to the proper orientation with their fingers.

 

I've also used pointed pliers, often called "needle nosed pliers". Like these:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=needle+nose+pliers&num=20&client=opera&hs=89t&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiU1qG5rp7eAhWvg-AKHXqvB6MQ_AUIDigB&biw=1197&bih=594

 

They will scratch a nib, but it should be feasible to first wrap each plier jaw with tape to avoid this.

 

Alan

Or nylon jawed needle nose jewelers pliers?

[minddance]

This thread totally resonates with me.

 

The inverted canyon, either full (both tines misaligned) or partial (1 tine misaligned) can be caused by spreading the tines to make the pen write wetter (or sometimes, write, at all) by using fingernails on both thumbs to spread the shoulders of a nib, in hope of widening the slit where two tines meet. On some ocassions, a brass shim or foreign object of relatively considerable thickness inserted between the tines, also, in hope of increasing flow or make pens write.

 

I have experienced these problems too many times because my pens are never wet enough. Some of them behaved like a spoilt rollerball (but not half as smooth), some did not write at all.

 

Why did I spread my tines using thumbs or brass shims?

 

There is alot of irresponsible 'advice' on the internet and youtube, conveniently asking people to do things that might harm their pens, or create problems rather than

completely solve them.

 

But the good thing with fountain pens is that nothing is absolutely unfixable. If you are experienced, you can DIY in a jiffy, if not, send it to the right people and they will make things right for you.

 

That said, I totally appreciate the existence of the plastic tool!

Edited October 24, 2018 by minddance

[XYZZY]

Nibmeisters can bend the tines back to the proper orientation with their fingers.

 

I've also used pointed pliers, often called "needle nosed pliers". Like these:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=needle+nose+pliers&num=20&client=opera&hs=89t&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiU1qG5rp7eAhWvg-AKHXqvB6MQ_AUIDigB&biw=1197&bih=594

 

They will scratch a nib, but it should be feasible to first wrap each plier jaw with tape to avoid this.

 

Alan

 

I've accepted at this point in life that I'll probably never stop gnawing my fingernails. Nasty habit, deprives me of a nice set of tools, yadda yadda. But old dogs and new tricks.

 

I've got multiple needle nose pliers in the garage. That I could use them is obvious, and leaving scratches on an $8 nib doesn't concern me too much (ok, scratches would bother me, but the nib is easily replaced). But I prefer to have a go at doing it right so that I'll be wiser when I encounter this in a $200 nib.

[XYZZY]

Or nylon jawed needle nose jewelers pliers?

 

By the way, if you're searching for small tools, a great source is to attend a model railroad convention or show. The shows from trainshow.com aren't the best for model railroading, but there are tons of vendors selling tools for small detailed work. Buckets of jewelers files, pliers, surgical tools (e.g. needle clamps and hemostats), jewelers saws, etc. All at "fresh off the boat from China/India" prices, but you can hold them in hand before buying.

 

I've just never needed nylon jawed anything before.

[hari317]

Great tool...............and I'd not really read about twisted nibs before that I can recall.

 

There is plenty of discussion on fpn on this actually. It has been referred to as tine rotation etc. Parker calls this condition as a troughed nib in their vintage service manuals and there is good discussion on how to correct.

 

I prefer fingernails whenever possible. But sometimes you have to use a tool specially devised for this job. The tool is called a nib plier. Pentooling used to sell a nice tiny one which I regularly use.