Strong Wording Notice On Martemodena Website About Delta

[pp763]

Has anybody come across this. Its a popup notice

[Bluey]

Has anybody come across this. Its a popup notice

This one?

[pp763]

Indeed

[s_t_e_v_e]

I see their concern. People are just speculating that the cheaper items may be 'seconds' but I don't think anyone has done a comparison to determine if that is the case. As it is clearly stated in the notice and per our first and foremost right to freedom of speech, we can discuss about the quality of the pens they sell and have opinions but we shouldn't be claiming something that may not be. Fair in my opinion. They have every right to stand by the truth about their products. I'll have a problem if they start telling me that my opinions about their products is wrong without trying to fix the problem.

[Tinjapan]

I see their concern. People are just speculating that the cheaper items may be 'seconds' but I don't think anyone has done a comparison to determine if that is the case. As it is clearly stated in the notice and per our first and foremost right to freedom of speech, we can discuss about the quality of the pens they sell and have opinions but we shouldn't be claiming something that may not be. Fair in my opinion. They have every right to stand by the truth about their products. I'll have a problem if they start telling me that my opinions about their products is wrong without trying to fix the problem.

Agreed.

[jar]

Sufficient reason to simply strike Martmodena off the list of places to buy anything IMHO.

[katanankes]

Sufficient reason to simply strike Martmodena off the list of places to buy anything IMHO.

 

Why?

[jar]

 

Why?

The fact that it is a sharply worded warning is sufficient to completely turn me off. I do like the Delta fountain pens I own and have used but I don't need to deal with folk that get their panties in a wad over small stuff like what people say about one of the products the market.

 

Screw 'em.

[rafapa]

At least the put the notice where everybody can read it. A well known company deal privately with forum administrators.

[FriendAmos]

At least the put the notice where everybody can read it. A well known company deal privately with forum administrators.

 

There is no useful difference. Dealing with the odd individual here and there would not be worth the trouble. Proper targets in dealing with such mischief are large forums that have many readers (and which sometimes are taken FP Online Bibles). Dealing privately with administrators might be commended for some "subtlety", but there is no reason why such admins cannot also receive the message in a more "public and blunt" form. I hope FPN admins have taken proper notice.

[Erik Dalton]

Seems appropriate to me. In this day and age of social media someone's reputation can be ruined overnight, by one erroneous posting. These folks have an investment to protect. It costs money to carry inventory and do the advertising to promote a product.

I think they did right to jump on this quickly.

[alfredop]

I never thought that the dolcevita Federico was a second choice, and the comparisons I've seen confirm this fact. There are differences with respect to the let's say 'standard' dolcevita and they have been documented.

All in all I do not see any reason for this strong statement.

 

Alfredo

[Leeuwenhoek]

Well I think the wording isn't perfect and I'm sure that's partly due to translation into English. But I'm sure I've seen on this forum people saying they would not buy from Marte Modena due to these rumours. Indirectly related was a thread a couple of days ago suggesting Delta might be in financial trouble. This too could have dissuaded purchasing and and combined these rumours could put small businesses out of business so I do feel for them. In my experience communication with Marte Morena had been friendly and helpful and I'm pleased with my purchases.

 

This statement seems a fair response to unfounded rumours to me. What didn't seem to was Mont blanc 's crack down on what could be discussed about upcoming releases...

[FriendAmos]

I never thought that the dolcevita Federico was a second choice, and the comparisons I've seen confirm this fact. There are differences with respect to the let's say 'standard' dolcevita and they have been documented.

All in all I do not see any reason for this strong statement.

 

Alfredo

 

It is good that you have that view. But there have been all sorts of odious aspersions cast about, and MM are quite right to jump in and try to nip things in the bud.

[DustyR]

Spreading rumors and expressing opinions are two different things. If a poster on a pen forum simply expresses a negative opinion on a pen's design or build quality, MarteModena would not have any legal grounds for action (nor would any other reseller or maker). There are millions of product reviews of all kinds posted on the web, and as long as the claims made are in good faith and supported by evidence, they are protected under the First Amendment in the USA. The legality of such posts has been tested here (see Perez v Dietz, for instance), although I don't know about other countries.

Edited June 15, 2016 by DustyR

[FriendAmos]

they are protected under the First Amendment in the USA. The legality of such posts has been tested here (see Perez v Dietz, for instance), although I don't know about other countries.

 

FPN and its admin are not based in the USA. So one hopes they are more mindful than First-Amendment types. And one also hopes that the latter know where things and people are. (Over at Pen Economics, you will find in the readers/commentators who insist that they should be able to post whatever they like here, on FPN, because of the "free speech" rights etc ... which would be interesting even for an FPN based in the USA.)

 

Of course it is assumed that there is no problem with claims and statements that are backed by evidence. Nobody disputes that, and that is not what MarteModena has problems with.

[gistar]

I just got my first pen from MM and it is a good quality pen. Was I hesitant due to rumors and unfounded accusations? Certainly. Are others like me and may this have caused financial loss to MM? I can guess so. You can freely review and post your opinion and even outside US this will definitely be protected. But alleging that a shop sells second rate merchandise misleading consumers, and this without "reasonable" proof, is actionable. MarteModena is only protecting their interests.

[DustyR]

Thanks, Amos, I'm well aware that FPN is based in the Netherlands, which also protects free speech, but the speech of a US citizen is protected even if they post on a foreign internet site. And while I'm not sure what you mean by "First-Amendment types", I do support freedom of expression, a free press, freedom of religion, etc. Do you live in a totalitarian country? If so, I'm sorry for you. The purpose of my post above was simply to point out than neither MarteModena nor any other pen reseller would likely be able to bring meaningful legal action against a person who posted on the internet complaining about the quality of their pens, which makes their tough language a bit of an empty threat, especially if the issues about a pen's quality were documented.

 

 

 

 

FPN and its admin are not based in the USA. So one hopes they are more mindful than First-Amendment types. And one also hopes that the latter know where things and people are. (Over at Pen Economics, you will find in the readers/commentators who insist that they should be able to post whatever they like here, on FPN, because of the "free speech" rights etc ... which would be interesting even for an FPN based in the USA.)

 

Of course it is assumed that there is no problem with claims and statements that are backed by evidence. Nobody disputes that, and that is not what MarteModena has problems with.

[DustyR]

Can anyone point me to a link where a poster has accused the MarteModena pens of being factory seconds? I haven't seen that. When I first saw their listings last year, I assumed MM was simply liquidating Delta overstock, as they listed models that were available at other Delta retailers, but it appears that the "Federico Media" line is being produced by Delta for MM. It might help dispel rumors if MM would share their "specific 2016 market strategy" with potential buyers. Of course, I agree with MM that "false statements" should not be posted as if they are true.

[Cryptos]

Even free speech is bounded by rules of engagement (slander/libel, criminal bahaviour, copyright and so on).

 

Furthermore, in case anyone did not get the memo, there is no automatic right to free speech on a non-public internet space. Most privately owned and run sites have a Terms of Service (ToS) that must be agreed upon before one is allowed to join, and in many cases the ToS can and does limit and restrict free speech quite legally.