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Tines Misaligned, Housing Problem Or Feed Matters ?

tines nib delta jinhao misaligned housing feed

13 replies to this topic

#1 Frozz

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 09:47

isn't the housing, feed and nib suppose to fit together ?

 

my recent purchased pens have this problems, some when pulled out from the housing the tines are prefect but when fit back together the tines mis-align. a few of them has perfect tines when fit in the housing but mis-align when removed out.

and no matter what orientation i did the problem never solves. This has never happen to my other pens but that's because my other pens are all from japan (my Pilot and sailors) well known for their excellent supreme QC.

hence my question / cry for help

 

- where does the problem lies, housing inside uneven or nib tail uneven ?

- any method  to solve this matter ?

 

Just in case anyone want to know I am having said problems above with my Delta DV OS, Monte verde Regatta sport, Jinhao 159, vinconti homosapien Dark age. For such expensive pen (jinhao aside) you expect it to work well ... even my preppy write better !!

I don't think i will look/buy another pen from them.

 

attached photo are my delta nib after insert into the housing the gap in between becomes wide open!

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  • 20160607_001150_Richtone(HDR).jpg

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#2 Witsius

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 18:32

Looks to me like you just need to align the tines after the nib and feed are installed in the pen, which is how it should be done on any pen.  


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#3 View from the Loft

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 18:55

Does the problem only materialise when you take the nibs/feeds out?

For what purpose are you stripping such modern pens down? I've never need to do this on a modern pen, with the exception of the pen I rescued that had been filled with India ink.

#4 Mike 59

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 22:13

Several different things can affect the nib in this way, one being that the nib has rolled around the feed slightly, so you can use the ink channel as the center line and line the nib up on that.

 The feed might have a small 'bump' of plastic that is lifting the nib on that side, a VERY light sanding with a nib smoothing block or similar will correct that.

  Or the feed is very slightly mis-shaped, when the nib will have to be matched to the feed by trial and error.

  Really the only situation that matters is when the nib, feed and section are assembled.



#5 ac12

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 22:52

As mentioned, the nib alignment only matters when the nib is installed in the pen.
Yes there may be reasons and issues about the feed and the section that might be causing a slight mis-alignment when installed.

As has been said, WHY are you removing the nib from the pen? Under normal circumstances, the nib should NOT be removed from the pen, as that is a chance to damage the nib/feed. And minor nib alignment adjustments can easily be made without removing the nib.

Edited by ac12, 07 June 2016 - 22:53.

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#6 Frozz

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 08:07

Several different things can affect the nib in this way, one being that the nib has rolled around the feed slightly, so you can use the ink channel as the center line and line the nib up on that.

 The feed might have a small 'bump' of plastic that is lifting the nib on that side, a VERY light sanding with a nib smoothing block or similar will correct that.

  Or the feed is very slightly mis-shaped, when the nib will have to be matched to the feed by trial and error.

  Really the only situation that matters is when the nib, feed and section are assembled.

 

 

As mentioned, the nib alignment only matters when the nib is installed in the pen.
Yes there may be reasons and issues about the feed and the section that might be causing a slight mis-alignment when installed.

As has been said, WHY are you removing the nib from the pen? Under normal circumstances, the nib should NOT be removed from the pen, as that is a chance to damage the nib/feed. And minor nib alignment adjustments can easily be made without removing the nib.

 

@mike59 @ac12

 

thanks a bunch, finally i got some advice really thanks pal ... so this is normal in any pens that has common housing, feed and nib may have some area that is uneven, how do they get pass QC i wonder ?  This is not suppose to be the way !!

 

my problem/issue is that when fit together (yes i fit it perfectly with the feed channel) and disassembled, the nib should be align and not only align when fitted in the housing. this means I have to intentionally misaligned my tines just so that when fitted it align perfectly ? Now that does not sound right at all.

 

Anyway i experiment with my jinhao 159 and got it to write butter smooth but still did not solve my issue as when removed from housing the nib are super badly misaligned. I am not going to do it with the visconti and delta, going to send back to get it rectify and change the housing. 

 

btw I am a utilitarian, i  always clean my pen through out when changing ink or just cleaning and mostly will disassemble everything to clean including cap. I always adjust my nib first before fitting into the housing which is when i notice this error/problem.


Edited by Frozz, 09 June 2016 - 05:09.

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#7 ac12

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:05

Look at the price of the JinHao. You can't put much QC in for that low a cost.

In QC there is concept called sampling or statistical sampling. What is typically done is to take a statistically representative sample of the manufacturing run to determine if the sample is within tolerance. And if it is, then it is presumed that the batch is within tolerance. But with sampling, you will get the occasional 'outlier' that will be out of spec and pass through the system.

Doing a 100% inspection of every component would drive the cost of the product WAY UP, and has to be justified based on the end use or cost of the product, because the customer will have to ultimately bear the cost of all the QC.

There is something known as manufacturing tolerance. X + or - Y.
When a part is molded there is the problem of how it cools. When a part cools it shrinks, if it does not shrink evenly, you get distortion. Is the part +/- distortion within specs? Maybe, maybe not.

Again, there is a practical limit to how much QC a manufacturer will do. It is not practical to do a full 3D analysis of EVERY part manufactured, or the pen would not be affordable.

When a company subcontracts out the production of parts (section and feed), do they do a QC check on the part they receive? Maybe, maybe not. If they do QC, again it is by sampling. Then there is the problem of what do you get/loose with a 'lowest price supplier.'

As I mentioned before, disassembling parts which were not meant to be consumer disassembled risks damage to the parts. And this problem gets worse when you are dealing with vintage pens, because of age. With age some material shrink. Now things are out of spec, but you CANNOT do anything about it, because you cannot unshrink the item. And some older parts become brittle with age.

So for cleaning, there is the concept of "good enough."

Edited by ac12, 09 June 2016 - 03:14.

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#8 View from the Loft

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 15:56

 
btw I am a utilitarian, i  always clean my pen through out when changing ink or just cleaning and mostly will disassemble everything to clean including cap. I always adjust my nib first before fitting into the housing which is when i notice this error/problem.


I don't find a need to remove nibs and feeds when changing inks; flushing and occasionally soaking is all that I find necessary.

Nibs and feeds are normally adjusted when in the pen, so I wouldn't waste time trying to do so until the pen is re-assembled.

My take on utilitarian is not to do unnecessary work. For me, the key is to know my limits and use experts for jobs beyond them. So I'll quite cheerfully strip and work on a 6 cylinder diesel engine, but I'll leave the central heating to a plumber. I'll lubricate the piston on a Pelikan pen, but I won't take apart my vintage CS206.

Each to their own

#9 Frozz

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 05:34

I don't find a need to remove nibs and feeds when changing inks; flushing and occasionally soaking is all that I find necessary.

Nibs and feeds are normally adjusted when in the pen, so I wouldn't waste time trying to do so until the pen is re-assembled.

My take on utilitarian is not to do unnecessary work. For me, the key is to know my limits and use experts for jobs beyond them. So I'll quite cheerfully strip and work on a 6 cylinder diesel engine, but I'll leave the central heating to a plumber. I'll lubricate the piston on a Pelikan pen, but I won't take apart my vintage CS206.

Each to their own

 

yup you are right To each his own, to me a utilitarian means i work on every parts of said item take the engine for example i will work on it from a to z even on the oil formula that goes in the engine if needed to same goes for pen i will work on whole pen all parts. Its all or none for me. This tends to get more extreme on my Demonstrators (yes i can't compromise even a speck of ink)

 

Anyway not side tracking away, i only wanted to find out the problem and (big thanks to everyone in the FP community) got that the housing or feed may have uneven "features" so yea never had that occur to me before till now.

you thought you pay a premium price and such pen there will be at least be some TLC but alas disappointment.

I even went to my friend's place to check out his pens and yes they are the same too (mostly pens with common housing ex. bock, JOWO) but the difference is his pens comes with prefect tines (thought when removed the tines are misaligned) so there is no need to tweak anything on his side where else mine came with tines looking like deformed monster and i have to remove it and "deform" it some more compensating the uneven house/feed just so that it will fit perfectly.

 

So yea just felt real shocker that this happens, anyway my case I have already informed Delta about this matter and asking to change either the feed or housing. Shall see what's the reply ... hopefully not S.O.P. reply. 


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#10 View from the Loft

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 16:04

Oh I agree, it is annoying that expensive pens often suffer from lack of attention to those little details that make a difference.

#11 FarmBoy

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 05:32

How was the alignment when you first got the pen before you removed the nib from the section?


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#12 Flounder

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 12:12

In my experience of inexpensive chinese pens that use a feed sleeve to hold the nib & feed in the pen: if the tines are aligned out of the pen and won't stay aligned when reassembled, it it because of far-too-tight tolerances in the feed sleeve. There's not enough space for the nib & feed, and the nib is deformed as it's been shoved in. Sometimes, you'll see the feed fins are bent from the pressure too.

 

Using rolled up sandpaper has been enough to make enough space for the nib & feed to fit properly without tine misalignment and with sensible pressure.

 

I think it's reasonable to expect accelerated wear from the practise of totally dismantling a fountain pen for the sake of cleaning, btw.


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#13 tinta

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 20:17

"I think it's reasonable to expect accelerated wear from the practise of totally dismantling a fountain pen for the sake of cleaning, btw."  (by Flounder)

 

Well put.  :thumbup:


Edited by tinta, 11 June 2016 - 20:18.

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#14 shahrincamille

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 00:35

Hi Frozz,

 

Fellow Malaysian here :) 

 

I USED to be like you when I first started collecting fountain pens back in 2006 - a stickler for detail and perfection, I used to disassemble my pens whenever it goes out of rotation, for cleaning purposes. Each and every time. For EVERY one of them, regardless of rarity, price or age.

 

And the fact that I love to tinker with stuff and take things apart certainly does not help in this respect. But that's how I self-taught myself how to build and repair PCs and laptops, and relatively recently, cellphones* and tablets. And oh...my poor cars too :lticaptd:

 

But there's a negative side to this "itchy fingers" behaviour - sometimes things DON'T turn out as you hoped and planned for. Going in blind a.k.a. trial-and-error, or with partial knowledge at times ends disastrously. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, some people say...

 

Now let's see...how about that Nakaya feed that I snapped in two during an attempt to disassemble it for cleaning, and later found out that Nakaya DOES NOT sell parts of their pens...or the vintage Ancora piston that I busted while trying to take apart for, well, cleaning...or the attempt to glue together the cracked nib/feed housing (cracked it while trying to remove said housing for...you guessed it right again - cleaning) ended up with said housing permanently glued to the section and yet STILL LEAKING, on my Stipula Pinocchio - and the fact that the pen's section is in red resin means the resulting ink stain is clearly visible, and non-cleanable :gaah: . And as if to compound matters, and press the point that stubborn me never learnt my lesson, 2 years ago I broke my ST Dupont Fidelio's feed** while attempting to remove it for...yup, cleaning! :wallbash:. Talk about fools and how they repeat their mistakes...

 

This is not counting the numerous misaligned (or even bent) nibs that I had caused as a result of my obsession with taking pens apart for cleaning purposes. Luckily by now I had become quite adept at doing simple nib adjustments and repairs myself (with the help of my beloved-but-battered Belomo 10X loupe and Richard Binder's nib-smoothing kit, and thank you very much for the knowledge and tips obtained from the numerous pen gurus here at FPN :notworthy1: ), failing which I would just them off to Manjit at KS Gill's in Jalan TAR KL for more expert work.

 

The point here is (pun fully intended :P )... it is NOT necessary to take pens apart for cleaning, unless the nib or feed had gunked up and requires a more comprehensive cleaning (for which, I'll let the experts do if it's beyond my capabilities and available equipment). Rare is the pen that is 100% leak-proof, not even "excellent supreme QC" Japanese ones. And don't sweat the small stuff where the nib-is-misaligned-when-removed-from-its-housing-but-perfectly-aligns-when-fitted-back-in, and vice-versa - what really matters is whether or not the nib is aligned WHEN it's fully-assembled and ready to write, and that it produces a smooth, consistent line with even ink flow when it finally gets into action. It's actually OK even if the feed is not perfectly centred on the nib if it writes well. Just remember that some pens, especially Italian ones, are mostly handmade so please allow some leeway for a bit of human imperfection as long as it's tolerable, and the end product functional as intended. I can't remember the exact words, but the late Franco Grisola, founder of Filcao pens once said, it's the imperfections of handmade pens that adds value (or something to that effect) to them :D

 

So enjoy your pens in good health. Life is too short and stressful to get all frazzled up by some minor issues regarding a little spot of ink in a pen that uses liquid ones :rolleyes:

 

 

 

Shahrin B)

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I'm certainly obstinate, and probably foolish too - as if I've never learned any lessons from my past misadventures, I recently took apart an iPhone 5c out of curiosity and ended up damaging said phone, and it's now in the trash can :bawl: . Should've known better than to do that on a phone with near-microscopic screws, when I'm already losing my near vision and yet refuse to fit those ugly bifocal lenses on my spectacles.

 

**That freakin' Dupont's replacement feed is expensive. I had to "modify" a spare feed I found somewhere in my drawer to fit in, but it still looks weird in the pen although perfectly functional :rolleyes: 





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