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Black Ink: The Cheaper The Better?

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#21 ksm

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 16:24

Which ink would you recommend as a substitute of Sailor Kiwa Guro?
It does not have to be waterproof, nor the deepest black, but I require it to stay where it's put (i.e. to keep thin lines thin even on cheap paper) and not to break the bank.

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#22 Fabienne

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 16:42

Noodler's Featherproof.



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#23 TSherbs

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 17:30

Noodler's Featherproof.

 

I second this, but it can clog up a bit in f/ef nibs (at least in my experience). I love the ink as long as I keep the pen busy and don't let it lay unused for a week.



#24 haruka337

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 18:28

Sailor Kiwa-guro. Unique matte black ink that is lubricant, quick to dry, does not feather, works on cheap paper and is water-proof.

I wouldn't use Aurora black. Over priced, long dry time and smears for months on some papers. No thank you.

Amirography, if you'd like, I can send you some ink samples of black inks, including Kiwa-guro and Aurora.

Ink, a drug.

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#25 haruka337

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 18:35

Which ink would you recommend as a substitute of Sailor Kiwa Guro?
It does not have to be waterproof, nor the deepest black, but I require it to stay where it's put (i.e. to keep thin lines thin even on cheap paper) and not to break the bank.


None. There is no black ink like it. However, Sailor Black is very affordable and an all around solid black ink.

Ink, a drug.

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#26 VivienR

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 20:25

I can't agree with the OP.

I have a few black like, Parker Quink, J. Herbin Perle Noire, Platinum Carbon, Sailor Jentle Black and Caran d'Ache Carbon (Colors of Earth series), the deepest and most well behaving for me is CdA Carbon, its way more black than the also highly praised Perle Noire. Obviously Platinum Carbon will win in waterproof test.



#27 inkstainedruth

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 20:39

Tim!!! I was actually wanting to try that. Yes please! I heard it's darker than the standard Noodler's Black. Is it equally bulletproof?

 

So as I am not derailing the thread, these are the things I personally need from a black ink:

  • Lightfastness
  • Waterproof (I deign to use it to line my sketches in my sketchbook for watercoloring purposes)
  • Very Dark (I have Lexington Gray so I personally do not need a black that is only sort of black or leans more gray. Actually now that I think of it, I wouldn't mind a shading black for in my sketching FPs but I would like a very dark black to use in my brush pens.)

 

Come to think of it, I'm also looking for a brown with those same properties! The search is on~  ;)

 

Old Manhattan is super black.  But I've discovered that you have to be a bit careful about what paper it's used on (on cheaper, more absorbent paper it has bleedthrough issues).  I actually prefer Noodler's Heart of Darkness, which is fairly black, dries quickly, and isn't smudgy.  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#28 tmenyc

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 00:11

To no one's surprise, Ruth is of course correct.  And what it doesn't bleed through it doesn't dry quickly on, unless it's diluted.  I only use Apica notebooks, so bleedthrough is not a problem for me.  

 

Tim



#29 Christina

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 14:53

 

Old Manhattan is super black.  But I've discovered that you have to be a bit careful about what paper it's used on (on cheaper, more absorbent paper it has bleedthrough issues).  I actually prefer Noodler's Heart of Darkness, which is fairly black, dries quickly, and isn't smudgy.  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

 

To no one's surprise, Ruth is of course correct.  And what it doesn't bleed through it doesn't dry quickly on, unless it's diluted.  I only use Apica notebooks, so bleedthrough is not a problem for me.  

 

Tim

Good to know, thanks to you both. I don't typically use cheap paper (unless I'm at work, I don't have much of a choice in that regard). Is Noodler's black smudgy compared to HOD? 


Edited by Christina, 31 May 2016 - 14:54.

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#30 inkstainedruth

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 22:00

 

 

Good to know, thanks to you both. I don't typically use cheap paper (unless I'm at work, I don't have much of a choice in that regard). Is Noodler's black smudgy compared to HOD? 

 

My understanding is that the "bulletproof" inks bond with cellulose (of course that could also mean your cotton shirt...).  But if you put down a lot of ink, only the stuff directly touching the paper is going to react -- the stuff not in direct contact isn't, and that's what's smudgy.  I don't have a lot of experience with Noodler's Black, other than a sample I tried a few years ago.  I actually really only got the bottle of Heart of Darkness in order to get the free Charlie pen that came with it  ;) -- but then discovered that the ink was fairly well behaved on its own merits (and faster drying than Noodler's Black).

If you want super black, Old Manhattan is probably blacker -- but that may be because of the bleedthrough issues (which I discovered after the fact) on cheap paper, like the Piccadilly sketchbooks I use for ink journals.  I had similar problems with Organic Studios Charles Darwin (which also dried super fast, but the spread and bleedthrough made me just nuts).  OTOH, Old Manhattan is supposed to be archival; don't remember about HoD.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#31 Sasha Royale

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 00:07

A Rapidiograph drawing pen does not normally use the fountain pen nib, with feed and veins to be clogged.  Such a pen allows access to the various art inks, that might be suitable.  Although Rapidiograph pens are no longer widely available, can anyone offer information on similar, contemporary pens ?  


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#32 white_lotus

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 02:23

Radiograph pens are available at Dick Blick, along with other brands of technical pens.

 

http://www.dickblick...technical/pens/



#33 Laured

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 02:35

I think there is a breaking point. My Noodler's Heart of Darkness is a lot better than my cheap Jinhao cartridges. They both have hard starts if not used for a few days though. 



#34 Amirography

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 10:22

Oh my god! How amazing is that! I've seen A LOT of "which black ink" topics here, but it manages to never ever get old, apparantly. :))

 

I see a lot of aurora and noodler's fan here. I love to try one. I hope one day I find them here.

 

 

A few days have passed and I'm still in love with my pelikan brilliant black ink. It just works awesomely! To be honest, I rarely had a good experience with other products of pelikan. They are usually considered low end here. But the black ink was just amazing. I love it!



#35 DustyR

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 14:12

Two things:  Here in the US, Pelikan BB isn't the cheapest black ink, and is less common in stores than either Quink or Skrip.  Second, the Pelikan inks have always been a good product, IMO.  I like them better than the Slovenian and Chinese inks I've tried, which are cheaper.



#36 inkstainedruth

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 14:50

Two things:  Here in the US, Pelikan BB isn't the cheapest black ink, and is less common in stores than either Quink or Skrip. 

 

True, but I got a bottle of it in the Prizm Art section of my local Pat Catan's craft store (I just wish they carried other colors besides Brilliant Black).  And I got a small bottle of Pelikan Fount India in another local-ish art supply (which mostly does NOT carry FP ink or pens, but does stock Pilot Parallels; and also has a decent selection of notebooks, including both Rhodia and Leuchtturm 1917).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: @Amirography -- For someone who doesn't use black ink a whole lot, I seem to have an awful lot of it.  Agreement on Brilliant Black (which was more water resistant than I expected).  I also really like Heart of Darkness (a LOT).  Still trying to make up my mind about Iroshihzuku Take-sumi.  Which isn't as super black as some brands, but has this weird sort of almost tactile look to it on the page -- it's really a nice ink but I'm not sure I use black inks enough to spring for something that expensive, especially when HoD is pretty water resistant/waterproof.


Edited by inkstainedruth, 01 June 2016 - 15:02.

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#37 Christina

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 15:32

I have read good things about MB Permanent Black- have not tried it personally. Perhaps someone here could speak to it? Looking at the pricing it would cost about as much as Kiwa Guro (roughly) I may just need to go the ink sample route... though I ought to clear out some that I have in my possession before I grab any more!


- The poster formerly known as HollyGolightly


#38 SenZen

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 19:55

I used what was available, Waterman and Pelikan, but they looked more grey than black; J Herbin Perle Noire is such a deep black it's scary.


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#39 CS388

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 01:02

I used what was available, Waterman and Pelikan, but they looked more grey than black; J Herbin Perle Noire is such a deep black it's scary.

 

Surprised to hear this. I've always had good deep results from Waterman's black.

It's actually one of my favourite blacks - and fits in with the OP's pricing theory, too.

Never tried the J Herbin Perle Noir, but I like the sound of it. May have to pick up a bottle

 

On the other side of things, I like the Old Manhattan - and it is very black. But, I find Heart of darkness equally as satisfying, in the black stakes.

I still use MB Mystery Black, because I have a couple of bottles and I'm also fond of Diamine Registrar's ink, too - but, again, Waterman's is my go-to black ink for everyday use.

 

Thanks.



#40 Witsius

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 05:35

I'm a real fan of black ink.  I have Noodler's, Pelikan, and Aurora.  I like them all.  Aurora is clearly the darkest followed by Pelikan and finally Noodler's.  While Noodler's is totally waterproof and fade proof, it can smudge on certain papers.  I've never had Aurora smudge, even coming out of my very wet Pelikan.  

 

For what it's worth, while Pelikan and Aurora aren't waterproof, they do have an impressive level of water resistance.  Water will lift a little ink off the page, a spill won't eradicate what you've written.  

 

While Pelikan is a great bargain, you get a ton of ink for the money with Noodler's.  $12.50 gets you a 90ml bottle filled to the tippy-top.  I bought a new bottle last week end at a local brick and mortar store, and I've filled three pens with it, and the bottle is still filled up into the neck.

 

I'd love to try Heart of Darkness sometime.    


Edited by Witsius, 17 June 2016 - 05:37.

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