Opinnion About Parker 51 "mark Ia"

[tentate]

Hi Hood; thank you for your advice.

Just because of that I make a lot of research before listing an item .

I know a bit about watches, but you never stop to learn, there´s always something new.

Before listing a pen, I search everywhere, for instance I read this forum since a long time.

A Limited edition has always added value, for the limited "number" produced.

A Parker 51 , for being"rare" as I listed, must have something special.

As one of my favorite webs is Richard´s pens, he is the right one who says this model with the vent hole at the barrel´s side is rare, just that.

And if it is not rare, well, then Richard is wrong this time, but I always prefer the opinion of people with more experience than me. I make this clear because there was no intention to invent "rarity".

About "feedback" is like you say, I was reading that last night.

The last mail with the buyer, he said he doesn´t want to return it because it´s an "inconvenience" for him, that he wants a partial refund.

I insisted with the full refund and he didn´t answer up to know.

Well, if he appears again I´ll follow the advice, and like Kapanak told me, I´m not going take care just on everybody´s feedback, when I can reverse it.

Thanks for your time!

 

Luis

[tentate]

Hi Seeker, it´s a pleasure

 

I offered the full refund twice (ebay email), no answer until now.

 

About putting "No returns" , I know that if it is not as described I have to accept the return anyway.

The mainly reason for not accepting returns is that in our country with incoming packages we have bad custom´s experience.

But a friend who also sells in ebay just told me to fix a return address in USA, tha can be a solution.

 

I realize that trying to list too much information about an item could also be misleading, it should be enough I guess, but not too excessive.

 

What I didn´t get is what you said about the worst sellers, the ones that knowing something about a particular item, will deliberately not describe it so that the prospective buyer has to gamble, what for?

May be what you mean is that if the buyer by himself "discovers" the item is valuable, then he will be more interested because it was not in the description ?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Luis

[tentate]

Hi Daniel!

 

I think it is not necessary, you read it already , may be he didn´t use the word "rare", but he wrote about a model not classified or a transitional one between Mark 1 and 2 with the vent hole on the barrel´s side.

Then for me (sorry), it is "rare" a 51 with the vent hole on the barrel´s side, isn´t it?

If it is not, then I beg your pardon, may be that the "rarity" significance differs between pens and watches .

Rarity in watches is related with quantity, just to mention one point.

The Paul Newman Daytona was a disaster for the company when it was released, after 4 years they decided to stop the production.

The history is long, it does´t matter, but due to this marketing "failure", many years later the Daytona became the most important Rolex sport watch, and the new company strategy turned around the Daytona, who was just a rare model because of the few units available.

A coin with a failure, or a stamp, is very valuable because it is rare.

May be with pens is different, or if you prefer, may be I misunderstood Richard.

 

Take care

 

Luis

[tentate]

He didn´t used the word "rare" Sir, you are completely right.

 

He just says: "....In this apparently undocumented “Mark Ia” version, the Aero-metric vent hole is moved from the end of the barrel to the side of the barrel, about ²∕₃ of the way from the clutch ring to the end."

 

This is not a contest, you are pointing out the "specific word", and I am talking about the "meaning".

I should have listed then : "Apparently undocumented Parker 51 "Mark Ia" version"

 

You like it that way?

 

By the way, and finally for learning: is a "rarity" the vent hole on the barrel´s side? Yes or not?

 

Thank you!

[tentate]

ok, everything fine, but you didn´t answer, for you, "is the vent hole on the barrel´s side a rarity or something just common?"Yes or not?

 

Thanks again

[Cryptos]

Daniel has a thing for accuracy, which is good of course, but I think he is being a bit hard on you Luis. People make errors, yours was in interpretation. I see you are from Argentina so would I be correct in assuming that English is not your first language? My apologies if that is a rude question.

 

 

Hi Seeker, it´s a pleasure

What I didn´t get is what you said about the worst sellers, the ones that knowing something about a particular item, will deliberately not describe it so that the prospective buyer has to gamble, what for?

May be what you mean is that if the buyer by himself "discovers" the item is valuable, then he will be more interested because it was not in the description ?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Luis

 

I just realised this was directed at me! Most people refer to me as EoC, or just Empty (as in Empty in the head!). They probably use a few other names behind my back too, but that's life!

 

Anyway, what I meant was that you will find a seller who has a pen with a flexible nib (for example) who enthusiastically describes how wonderful this nib is. Then, the same seller will have a very similar pen where they don't say ANYTHING about the nib. They tend to do this because they think people will assume it's another flexible nib (like the first pen) and bid high, even though the seller knows that it is not that kind of nib.

 

Does that make sense? I hope so. I've seen this kind of behaviour from a few sellers who only sell pens. This is why I lack any confidence or trust with ANY sellers on eBay until I can establish who they really are. It's dangerous out there.

[mitto]

The OP came clean on what he did and what he didn't. There is no reason to disbelieve him.

 

Apperently, he had no ill intentions describing the pen. Only a misinterpretation of the text he quoted. I wish him good luck learning more about pens and especially 51s.

Edited May 26, 2016 by mitto

[kapanak]

Too much accuracy is not to be expected on eBay. I think some of you are being too harsh on him. Buyers have just as much a role to play in judging products as the sellers in rhe case of eBay. The situation here is clear. If the buyer assumed wrong, then he can return his pen for a full refund not including shipping. Otherwise, there is nothing else to discuss.

[tentate]

Daniel: You want me to be precise, but you aren´t.

 

Read me question again Sir, I said :

 

ok, everything fine, but you didn´t answer, for you, "is the vent hole on the barrel´s side a rarity or something just common?"Yes or not?

 

Thanks again

 

and you answer..:

 

Not rare. "Apparently undocumented" doesn't mean rare.

--Daniel

 

If you don´t want to answer, don´t do it, but I was asking you, "is the vent hole on the barrel´s side a rarity or something just common?" Yes or not?"

 

Thanks you!

[tentate]

Hi Seeker!

 

I like accurate people!, because of that I am asking him about the vent hole!

You are right, english isn´t my first language, and I don´t feel your question rude at all.

People who has experience in this subject may think I´ve made a misinterpretation, and may be they are completely right.

But I read "between lines" that somehow may be he was meaning it was not a "common model"
And just because I want to learn I am asking, just simple like that .

About the seller you mention it´s clear now, but I guess that will not last long with that strategy (my opinion).

It´s dangerous out there, you are right, but as I told somebody here, you find good and bad people just round the corner.

Without knowing a person a little bit, I would never judge him just because he sells or buy in ebay, or live in Asia, doesn´t say what I want to hear.

Don´t worry if somebody is hard about my person without knowing me .

Somebody said: " What Peter says from Tom, means more about Peter than Tom"

Just for learning, that´s my goal, for playing "chess" I know where to go.

And thank you,your head is not empty for me.

 

Take care

[tentate]

Thanks Khan, it´s so simple like that.

I am old enough not to take care if somebody trust what I say or not without even knowing me and giving himself the opportunity, that´s not my problem.

 

The same for you Kapanak, thanks, it doesn´t matter who is harsh on me , I don´t care at all.

Being polite is free and a smile always is always a pleasure.

I will always trust somebody, meanwhile he does not defraud me.

 

Funny, no? I am here for learning if a vent hole on a barrel´s 51 side is something just common or notandwe are making psychology !

....A forum is not much different from a town or a country, is very similar ; just people interacting.

I go to work, good day for everybody!

[pajaro]

The ad on ebay was like a lot of ebay ads by a hopeful seller who had not totally grasped the features of the item on sale and how they relate to other wares in the market. This happens all the time, and it is the buyer's responsibility to know the items they are seeking and the different features of different samples -- nib types, cap types, scarcity or not, etc. Since the seller didn't want to offer a partial refund, he had no obligation to. I think the pen was fairly priced by the auction, but if the seller thought he was shorted, why offer the buyer a bigger deal? Everybody should move on.

[tentate]

Yes Pajaro, you are right , I didn´t want to offer a "big deal" to the buyer, I just didn´t know how to handle the situation, but I did already, I´ve got clear answers from some forum´s members, I wrote the buyer, and until today I didn´t here from him again.

Anyway I find it very wise to know and say what you are selling despite it could be just the buyer´s responsibility .

I didn´t write 100% accurate information, ok, I accept it, but I´ll improve with time.

 

By the way: do you know if the vent hole on the barrel´s side is something just "common" or not?

 

Take care

 

Luis

[Erik Dalton]

It's the art of the deal. You made an honest presentation with plenty of good photos. Anyone who has delved into P51's knows that Parker itself often replaced parts with what was current. Sometimes even caps don't correspond to bodies date wise. Who made the switch? Who knows. These pens have been kicking around being bought, sold and refurbished for 50 years. Very few are sold by an original owner. It's nearly impossible to document a pens service history. These days we rebuild these pens out of love and to make a little profit. There's no records on who worked on it. Or at what point in the course of its long life it was serviced.

There are purists out there who refurbish these pens and go to great pains to keep them as original. But, you're not one of them, nor do you claim to be.

Some of your advertising was factually off, but the buyer is not complaining about that. His issue is the nib. You put out good pix. Never claimed a gold nib. Case closed.

You made a reasonable offer. Now it's up to the buyer. I would just notify Ebay and Stand your ground. This buyer is trying to scam you.

So far you have made a reasonable offer. If you start quibbling over this, or that you obscure the prime issue, the nib. If the seller does not like the nib, let him return the item.

BTW..I too saw the pen and also gave it a wide berth.

[Erik Dalton]

By the way. I don't think you sold it for less than its worth. The price was fair for that pen.

[kirchh]

Never claimed a gold nib. Case closed.

 

The identification of the pen model implies a certain set of attributes; unless explicitly noted that some of the attributes are incorrect for that pen make/model, the responsibility for the omission lies with the seller.

 

--Daniel

[Erik Dalton]

Kirchh, you must have woken on the wrong side of the bed today. These pens are over 50 years old. They have been worked on and refurbished many times in their illustrious lifetime. Few are as original. None are made anymore. Given good photographs and discription or history, the buyer has the responsibility here. As we all do. I stand by what I said. There was amateurish and lackluster performance on both sides here, but no intentional falsehoods. I called it the way I see it. I contradicted the seller on what he thought was a fair price, noted his inarticulate terminology, but don't think he hid anything from the buyer. The buyer had the opportunity to ask questions, plenty of good quality pix, and decided to make the buy. You obviously see it differently and that's cool. Not everyone is as honorable or careful as we are.

You chewed up the seller pretty good. I think he and the rest of us get your point.

But. I'm not going to quibble over obscure details with you. I've said my piece. There is no more to be said by me....Captain of the Old Salt over and out.

[pajaro]

 

The identification of the pen model implies a certain set of attributes; unless explicitly noted that some of the attributes are incorrect for that pen make/model, the responsibility for the omission lies with the seller.

 

--Daniel

 

+1. I agree, and the nib pic had apparent bright light on the nib that confused the issue. You couldn't be sure it was Octanium or something else. Probably the seller was so ignorant of the wares that he didn't realize he was deceiving the buyer.

[hood]

Deceit requires intent.

 

Perhaps it is due to my monitor calibration but the pictures of the nib seemed to me to clearly show a silver colour.

[Leeuwenhoek]

Tentate I do believe others are being too harsh on you. The prices of Parker 51s on eBay seem to be

rising so I don't feel like the buyer was ripped off at all. If I had a pound for everytime a fountain pen was described as rare I would be a millionaire as the saying goes. You have offered a full refund and that is all you have to do. I would never assume a pen had gold nib if it didn't state so in the listing, there is a certain amount of buyer beware for any purchase and responsibility on the side of the buyer.