Opinnion About Parker 51 "mark Ia"

[tentate]

Hi everybody, this is my first post in the Parker forum, and the second one in this great site, ...just a newbie.

 

I should like to have your opinion about a Parker 51 that I´ve just sold in ebay, and now the buyer says "it´s not original because it doesn´t have a gold nib". (I never listed a gold nib)

 

According to Richard´s Pens, he describes this model as follows:

 

".....At some point, probably in the late 1950s, Parker introduced a slight variation on the Mark I design. In this apparently undocumented “Mark Ia” version, the Aero-metric vent hole is moved from the end of the barrel to the side of the barrel, about ²∕3 of the way from the clutch ring to the end."

 

Here is the link with my listing :

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121944855557?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649

 

I ´ve written to the buyer saying that there is no problem, I can refund him and that I should be happy to get the pen back, because I consider it was sold very cheap in that auction.

BUT HE WANTS TO KEEP IT, AND ASKS FOR A PARTIAL REFUND...

Before taking any action I should like if people with more knowledge than me could give me their opinion.

Despite that in the ebay link is all the information , I post the pictures:

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

[Leeuwenhoek]

I am definitely no expert on Parker 51s but as an eBay seller myself, I believe you have done nothing wrong. In your listing you never said it had a gold nib and you provided good pictures. I believe your offer to accept a return was more than generous enough.

[tentate]

Hi Mint! thanks!

I am completely I didn´t make anything wrong by myself, an indeed, I think if was sold very cheap being a "transitional model" is it´s ok whats Richard´s pens says.

Let´s see what the experts say, what I don´t like is the attitude of the buyer claiming it´s not original because of the nib,

but on the other hand he wants to keep it and get a partial refund, (instead of a full refund) and I don´t like that and don´t know how to go on.

If I am right and the pen is really what I listed, and despite and I don´t accept returns, I think this buyer is taking the wrong way...

 

Regards!

[kirchh]

I believe the pen would have originally come with a gold nib. Unless you explicitly point out that it does not have one, there is a material error in the listing, and so the buyer has the right to return the pen.

 

You also wrongly describe the pen as "ultra RARE," so the listing is misleading. Furthermore, you Incorrectly give a quote regarding the scarcity of Vacumatic-filling "51"s in burgundy, but the pen you listed was an Aerometric filler. Lastly, you directly quote Richard Binder's website without attribution or apparent permission.

 

I suggest accommodating the buyer, though it is true that you are under no obligation to offer a partial refund under eBay rules.

 

--Daniel

[kapanak]

I agree that the listing was misleading, especially given the fact that the nib was in fact changed to an octanium nib at some point. However, you should ask only for a full refund and a return, and not give a partial refund at all.

[tentate]

Hi Daniel!

Thanks for your clear answer.

About mentioning that the nib it´s not a gold one, I am not so sure if the pen came originally with one, anyway the pictures are part of the listing and it is clear that it is not gold.

Despite that, and not accepting returns, I offered a full refund, because I have no problem in getting it back.

Where I guess you are absolutely right is that I didn´t realize that the scarcity was in vacumatic-filling and not aerometris. lack of knowledge..

About Richard´s Binder I don´t mention him, I didn´t know I needed a permission in that case, well, I learned many things today.

I know that ebay rules talk about fully refunds and not partial ones, but I get the feeling it´s not the first time this buyer do this, and on the other hand I don´t like to complain, opening cases and all that things.

But I get a strange feeling with the offer he made, just that.

 

Thanks!

 

Luis

[tentate]

Hi Kapanak, I totally agree, but he doensn´t want to return it, he wants to keep it and get refund 50%....

Anyway he will land in my black list, this bothers me, a lot.

 

Thanks!

 

Luis

[hood]

It's not possible to say with total certainty that the pen did not come from the factory with a steel nib, but the majority of 51s similar to this one in all other ways would have come with a gold nib. As to originality, it's possible the nib was changed at some point by Parker a long time ago, perhaps as a repair and using a Parker steel nib - would a scenario like that negate all originality? It doesn't help your case with the buyer that you've made several statements in the listing that give a feeling of authority on the subject whilst now leaning on a lack of knowledge with regard to what material the nib should be. But I think the key things are 1) you did not state that the pen had a gold nib in the listing, and 2) the photos seem to clearly show the nib as silver-coloured rather than gold-coloured. So whilst you may have to accept it being returned for a full refund, I don't think you should be expected to give a partial refund if you don't want to.

 

[kirchh]

eBay will not compel you to give a partial refund. They might well find in the buyer's favor with regard to the 30-day return guarantee, so promptly offering a full refund for a return is a position with which they cannot argue. If the buyer refuses the full refund, I don't see as how s/he has any recourse with eBay.

 

--Daniel

[pajaro]

I think the listing ought to have stated that the nib was Octanium (steel). While I could see the nib was Octanium, a less experienced user would have expected a gold nib. I think this should have been understood by a knowing seller. Kirchh's criticisms are on point. Frankly I saw this listing and gave it a wide berth.

[mitto]

No doubt you committed a number of mistakes in the listing for which you are ready to accept the PENALTY of a full refund. I don't know how can the buyer impose his will upon you for a partial refund and insisting on keeping the pen without your consent.

[pajaro]

Different cultures, different attitudes. I think the OP got about what that pen was worth. Burgundy is a common color, and the Octanium nib is a minus. That the Octanium nib was not explicitly mentioned in the sales write up, but was left to the pictures as a caveat emptor item, when a gold nib in bright light might look pale, suggests ignorance of the item or sharp practice. A brief look at the item on ebay put me off. So, OP, give a refund or not, but there's no sanctimonious ground to stand on. Common color pen, cheaper replacement nib. No Parker 51 Special notation?

Edited May 24, 2016 by pajaro

[FarmBoy]

My answer would be to offer to take the pen back for a full refund and if that offer is declined move on. Make the offer through the eBay messaging system and keep a copy.

[tentate]

Thanks for the replies to everybody.

 

Hood: Before making a listing, I take my time to study a little bit what I am selling, sure I will make mistakes, but I try to know what I´m selling, this is my beginning with pens and ebay.

I agree with your 1 and 2 points.

But i am getting the feeling that there some people buying in ebay taking advantage of "newbies" like me, pressing with feedback.

I want to build a good reputation, (and I am doing it) , but I had some problems (specially with zero feedback buyers), saying that the pen "had something" that was not shown on the pictures, (not true) and asking directly for a partial refund.

 

On the other hand I can say that most of the buyers were very nice people.

But I fear that if I refuse what the buyer is asking for, he will leave bad feedback, that´s the point.

I will try again with the total refund and see what he says.

 

Kirchh; I agree with you, but can I make a full refund without the buyers asking for it?

 

Pajaro: "Different cultures, different attitudes", yes, you are right, but in your own neighborhood you are going to find good and bad people.

​I thought that the Parker 51 "special notation" was what I´ve found on Richard´s web site, (about the vent hole and transition model between Mark 1 and 2), and I personally thought that I was lucky to own one.

May be it´s no special Parker 51 notation , but he specially mentioned this "transitional Parker 51" as a rare one.

I was wrong about the color, I agree, and if I didn´t write "Octanium nib" it´s just because I didn´t know what it was.

And if I am offering a full refund, where is the sharp practice? Then we have just the "ignorance" left, ok, I gladly accept it, but until now I didn´t know anybody who was born "knowing", and I enjoy learning a lot.

The point here was not if I qualify for a Parker degree or if I want to become a saint, the point was just that : 1) The buyer says it is not an original Parker and 2) I offer a full refund but he wants to keep it and wants to force a partial refund

Thanks anyway for your gentle answer

 

Farmboy: I just did what you say, and the mail is stored in my mailbox, also his answer, but I don´t know "how" to go on if he doesn´t agree (I´ve just said it, I´m a newbie in pens and ebay also, but learning each day)

May be I have to report him? or make directly a full refund?

What I don´t want is a bad feedback, if it´s possible to avoid it

 

Thanks everybody

[kapanak]

Don't worry about feedback so much. And no, do not make ANY refunds until you have received the pen back, with tracking. No partial refunds, and definitely not a full refund until you've received the pen back.

[tentate]

Hi Kapanak, thank you.

 

I thought the full refund must be made prior receiving the pen, it seems to be the other way around.

May be I worry too much about feedback, it´s right, I have 100% positive but just 52 feedbacks, and a negative one will affect my percentage much more than if I had 1000 positive ones.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Luis

[kapanak]

If you make a full refund before receiving the pen, what's to say they keep the pen AND get their money back? Of course you must first receive it back in the same condition before giving them a refund. Hope this works out well for you.

[tentate]

Hi Kanapak, I wrote him, just waiting for the answer.

 

Thank you!

[hood]

Many here are sensitive about sellers pushing rarity on items which they feel they have reason to believe are not rare or even uncommon. But I commend you for trying to do some research rather than purely claiming ignorance as many sellers on ebay do. Regarding feedback, ebay have a facility to report a buyer if they have threatened to leave negative feedback if you don't do what they ask. Even if they don't tell you beforehand but still leave negative feedback after declining to return the item for a full refund, you can still trying contacting ebay and they may investigate and remove the feedback once they see you offered a refund without argument.

[Cryptos]

Simple solution. Offer full refund. If buyer does not agree, escalate to eBay. They will force the issue. You are not obliged to offer partial refunds. However, despite putting 'no returns' on your listings you are in fact obliged to accept returns for items classed as "not as described".

 

With regard to ignorance: there is no requirement for any seller to know anything about the items that they sell, and if that is the case then the seller should not attempt to describe the item beyond their knowledge limits.

 

In theory you could put a picture of a pen with the description of "pen", and a buyer could have no recourse to return unless the item wasn't actually a pen! The worst sellers are those who, knowing something about a particular item, will deliberately not describe it so that the prospective buyer has to gamble. With a little experience these people are easy to spot.