Pointed Pen Vs Fountain Pen Nib Comparison?

[KeithS]

So, I want to try pointed pen. I recently bought a fountain pen with an EF nib and am having to really get used to the lighter hand using it (but love the fine line it produces). I'm wondering if pointed pens nibs like the Nikko G or Zebra G feel similar to very fine fountain pen nibs? I'm learning Spencerian and will be using an oblique holder.

Thanks in advance,

Edited May 14, 2016 by KeithS

[Cryptos]

The Zebra G is a very forgiving nib for first time dip pen users. Yes, it does feel quite similar to an extra fine fountain pen nib, but has the added benefit of tons more flexibility. Grab an oblique holder - John Neal Books and Paper & Ink Arts are both in the US and sell them - grab a handful of Zebra G (cost about $10) and have at it!

 

Key point: Have fun!

 

The oblique will help you to find the correct slant angle for Spencerian script. I will recommend the book by Michael Sull (sold at John Neal) on this script. It's a good resources. Plenty of stuff on the IAMPETH website too, but I find online resources a bit distracting if I have to keep looking up from my work. YMMV, of course.

[KeithS]

Thanks. I have already ordered the hourglass oblique holder from Paper and Ink but probably won't get it for a while as its on back order. Did get McCaffery's ink and nibs from John Neal.

 

Question regarding the Michael Sull book--does it provide added benefit over the old books like The New Compendium of Spencerian, the Motts theory and copy books, and the Total Arm Movement books? Those are the ones I've been working from, but have considered the Sull book. I just don't want a rehash of what I've been using.

 

Thanks again

[Bluey]

The Zebra and Nikko don't give the finest line but they are easy to use, and great for beginners to start out on. If you want the finest line go for something like the Gillott 303 - produces a very fine hairline but it can sometimes stick in the paper and needs good control until you learn how to use it.

 

Another good place for learning Spencarian is You Tube videos

[KeithS]

Thanks. I'm wearing out YouTube. It is a great resource.

[Cryptos]

Thanks. I have already ordered the hourglass oblique holder from Paper and Ink but probably won't get it for a while as its on back order. Did get McCaffery's ink and nibs from John Neal.

 

Question regarding the Michael Sull book--does it provide added benefit over the old books like The New Compendium of Spencerian, the Motts theory and copy books, and the Total Arm Movement books? Those are the ones I've been working from, but have considered the Sull book. I just don't want a rehash of what I've been using.

 

Thanks again

 

Probably not, if you already have good exemplars to work with.

[dhnz]

Question regarding the Michael Sull book--does it provide added benefit over the old books like The New Compendium of Spencerian, the Motts theory and copy books, and the Total Arm Movement books?

 

In my opinion, the best texts are the two with the same name Lessons in Ornamental Penmanship, one by Zaner and one by Bloser. The text is the same in both but the examples and illustrations are different. Both can be downloaded from Iampeth. Also check out the Iampeth scrapbooks.

 

I’m not a fan of using the G nibs to learn Spencerian or OP. They’re too inflexible and thus you will not learn a light touch from them. Try the Leonardt Principal EF or Hunt 101 instead.

[mintymel]

I think the G nibs need a good pairing with smooth paper and good ink. I found that G nib behaves very scratchy on me, and "trips" over coarser paper. Furthermore, it didn't work well with me when I pair it with fountain pen inks likely because it has a thinner viscosity.

 

If you want to try the G-nib, I'd suggest to pair it with Rhodia paper and sumi ink. I've played around with this combination and it works the best for me.

[Cryptos]

Me too. I use the G with Sumi, Higgins Eternal, Walnut ink and R&K Salix, and it works well with all when used on Rhodia and even Tomoe River. Come to think of it, I've actually used the G in a Desiderata using fountain pen ink and writing on cartridge paper in an art book.

 

Best to experiment and find what works I guess!

[ac12]

The thing is the old instructional books teach you how to hold and write using a straight dip pen or a fountain pen. Using an oblique (to me) is quite different. Using an oblique is very similar to how I hold my pen normally. As EoC said, the oblique holder hold the nib at the correct angle, so you don't have to hassle with holding a straight holder/fountain pen in the grip required. Once I tried my first oblique holder, I retired my straight holders.

 

You will need to write even lighter with a dip pen. Some of the pointed pens/nibs are REALLY SHARP.

Paper makes a big difference. Texture will snag a pointed pen/nib, so you want a SMOOTH paper.

Edited May 16, 2016 by ac12

[KeithS]

Thanks. I've noticed even my Sailor with EF nib is a struggle with good stationary as that paper tends to have a slight texture. I've heard good things about the Sumi ink on YouTube and will pick up a couple of the other suggested nibs once I get going.

 

I think I have seen the ornamental books, but thought the titles were too advanced. I'll give them a look.

 

A couple months ago I just wanted to improve my handwriting, now this has turned into quite the learning experience. There is so much more to this than I would ever believed. What a great hobby I stumbled upon.

 

Thanks all.

[ac12]

BTW you CAN use fountain pen ink with a G dip pen/nib. I do it all the time when I use my dip pens. The main thing is the nib MUST BE CLEAN. Any oils on the nib will cause the nib to not hold onto the ink. I wipe my nibs with rubbing alcohol, where the inert ingredient is WATER.

[cellmatrix]

I've really taken to writing Spencerian using a pilot 912 with Spencerian modified FA nib. It does not produce as fine a line as a Nikko or zebra G / dip pen, but it's not bad. With a dry ink like montblanc permanent blue, a non absorbent paper like Clairefontaine and a very very light hand you can get very fine nonshaded lines which contrast nicely with the shaded lettering. The style of pen holding where your hand and wrist are off the writing surface and only you 4th/5th nails touch the paper has become essential to me. This gives you a better angle to shade with and more control too. I highly recommend all of these things to enterprising new Spencerian students who want to start using Spencerian on the go without a dip pen. If anyone is interested in seeing what it looks like, let me know, I can post an example.

[KeithS]

Cell matrix, sure would enjoy seeing an example. As for the dip nib, I got my pen and fired up a Nikko G. This is a different experience for sure. At this point I'm just using Hammermill 28 lb as suggested by several and using McCaffery's indigo blue. Having problems with this as the ink is very watery and when shading, it's pulling paper material. Since the indigo isn't iron gall, I thought maybe order some Old World and a Rhodia pad. Also ordered a couple Leonardt Principle nibs to check them out. Probably tecniquely challanged at this point, but not giving up.

[ac12]

Keith

Are you RH and using a straight holder and holding the pen in a tripod (or similar) grip?

If so, then when you push down to flex the nib open, that is a diagonal stroke rather than a down stroke. Anything other than a down stroke, with the pen in line with the down stroke, is scratching the paper, and likely to pick up paper fibers. You need to change your grip, to hold the pen so the pen is in line with the down stroke, or switch to an oblique holder where the holder puts the nib in line with the down stroke.

 

I use several different fountain pen inks with my G nibs and oblique holders with no problems.