Adding Flex To A 14K Nib, Again

[Pen Engineer]

Don't get all ingeneer on me. I'm just having fun!

Ingeneers are humans, too... and they are heaving fun....

I mean, why would you do anything if it is not for fun?

 

Does that sound like fun?

[Meltemi]

Yesss! An other flex topic!

 

So: Modern companies can produce flexible nibs. Conway Stewart has a self proclaimed "flexible" nib, there is the Aleph that has a flexible steel nib, the Wahl eversharp who has the lower end and higher end flexible nibs, there is the Tachys fountain pen with a semi flex nib. Modern companies Can make flexible nibs. And if they wanted, they would have made them 100% machine produced.

 

There are companies that if you present a vintage nib to them, they can replicate it. Of course, it needs money

You can start from scratch and develop your own but that needs money

You can start making alloys that have natural flexibility but that needs money

You can buy a Wahl-Eversharp Deco Band but that needs money

You can pay engineers and metallurgists to examine it but that needs money (might be cheaper than the others though but it still needs money)

 

In addition to money, they also need time. Also, on Niti: The flexibility of NiTi might feel tottally different than that of gold or steel. Who knows, maybe if a company does make NiTi nibs, we might not like it that much. But it will still be a flexible nib. Besides, gold is always better.

 

To put aside an other popular belief: I don't think dip nib can be converted into fountain pen nibs through a proccess. The only thing you can do is fit your favorite vintage nib into a fountain pen. Gold platting will not work (I asked a company about it, said that it would only affect the color) neither will tipping (the material is so thin that after a lot of use it might break. Dip nibs have an expiration date, a short one as they are meant to be replaced).

 

We can produce flexible nibs! No one does it though. Maybe a kickstarter company would help? I don't know. At the present moment I am trying to collect as much information as possible about old vintage nibs. A plan of mine is this:

We are in possession of the manufacturing book of John Foley. If we examine the alloy and follow the manufacturing proccess written on the book, a flexible nib might be produced. Although, there may be hidden steps.

 

If people at the Victorian times could do it, I can't see why we couldn't. Gold is better, gold sells, gold has great properties. Just look at what happened with the Noodler's pens: There is a demand for flexible nibs. People go crazy over them. Of course, a flexible nib would be a service pain on the companies as the ballpoint user (arghhhh) still writes on stone. That makes company alter the tipping shape of the nibs but that's an other thing.

 

A reason not to go vintage: One time we will run out. Keep in mind that every nib has it's expiration date, long or short. The expiration date of these nibs started a long time ago. I have been thinking of nib shapes to eliminate cracking (although these nibs are good at it). I'm thinking of making some kind of thread to capture any information on nibs we have but I just don't know how should I start it.

[Pen Engineer]

Yesss! An other flex topic!

 

 

 

In addition to money, they also need time. Also, on Niti: The flexibility of NiTi might feel tottally different than that of gold or steel. Who knows, maybe if a company does make NiTi nibs, we might not like it that much. But it will still be a flexible nib. Besides, gold is always better.

 

To put aside an other popular belief: I don't think dip nib can be converted into fountain pen nibs through a proccess. The only thing you can do is fit your favorite vintage nib into a fountain pen. Gold platting will not work (I asked a company about it, said that it would only affect the color) neither will tipping (the material is so thin that after a lot of use it might break. Dip nibs have an expiration date, a short one as they are meant to be replaced).

 

We can produce flexible nibs! No one does it though. Maybe a kickstarter company would help? I don't know. At the present moment I am trying to collect as much information as possible about old vintage nibs. A plan of mine is this:

We are in possession of the manufacturing book of John Foley. If we examine the alloy and follow the manufacturing proccess written on the book, a flexible nib might be produced. Although, there may be hidden steps.

 

If people at the Victorian times could do it, I can't see why we couldn't. Gold is better, gold sells, gold has great properties. Just look at what happened with the Noodler's pens: There is a demand for flexible nibs. People go crazy over them. Of course, a flexible nib would be a service pain on the companies as the ballpoint user (arghhhh) still writes on stone. That makes company alter the tipping shape of the nibs but that's an other thing.

 

A reason not to go vintage: One time we will run out. Keep in mind that every nib has it's expiration date, long or short. The expiration date of these nibs started a long time ago. I have been thinking of nib shapes to eliminate cracking (although these nibs are good at it). I'm thinking of making some kind of thread to capture any information on nibs we have but I just don't know how should I start it.

Everything costs... if it's not money, it's time....

 

fountain pens and nibs are designed together. It is no problem to design the ink feeding part to match a dip nib. and the same way as one would change the dip nib on a nib holder, sliding it on, one could design the pen to this method of exchange. No need for the manufacturer to be involved.

 

With enough money... ha ha ha! I could design such an ink feeder pen holder... anyone who knows about the process of feeding ink could do it.

 

Come and have a look at my blog... there is a lot written about your topic. The nib and the feeding part need to be matched... otherwise, you will end up with a compromise. And there, you, one needs to be specific: What are you prepared to compromise?

 

https://fountainpendesign.wordpress.com/fountain-pen-nib-function-material-manufacture/

[Pen Engineer]

Hello Fountain Pen Friends

I like to tell you, that for now at least, the final chapter on nibs has been completed. Here, I talk about, how all the technicalities we discussed before, are applied to the design of nibs.

I hope, you will have many questions, so I can answer them and be sure that you got the idea. But first, I would like to invite you to visit this page

How to... for Nibs

and as always

[Dr.X]

What happened to this topic, mate? I would love to read about it. I found all of your other stories about fountain pen development fascinating. But this is a dead link.

 

Cheers.

[Inky.Fingers]

with the availability of steel dip pen coupled with a feed and feed unit...it is almost pointless to a pursue 14k flex nib.

 

some hard core affectionado will differ on this view.

 

however...you can get these from

 

flexiblenib.com

fountainpenrevolution.com

and others...

 

also any nibmeister can make these modification without much ado.

 

if you are a DIY ...then show us what you got and share your knowledge here

Edited May 11, 2019 by _InkyFingers

[Detman101]

On 5/14/2016 at 7:39 AM, Dr. Saleem Ali said:

I have a very very limited experiance of smoothing some 14 k nibs on sand-paper .The end result was a disappointment !.Since then I learned that this was not my cup of tea and I quitted .Anything done without training or observation is deemed to faliure at least or disaster at worst.Since the nib is the heart of fp so the heart is not something to play around but to care otherwise it is likely to be broken .This is my humble conclusion of the debate .Experts are always experts and their advice needs careful attention .My greetings to all nibmeisters ,junniors or seniors .

This is the selfsame conclusion I have come to.
And in that, I quit attempting to modify these pens.
This is not for me...

[Detman101]

On 5/16/2016 at 2:25 PM, Inky.Fingers said:

*snip*

 

Ps.. why am i bothering with flex now? Line variation can easily achieved with broad edged nibs. Unless you are a calligrapher by trade, learning flex writing with an oblique dip pen takes 1 to two years for an average Joe. Broad pen, a month of intense with better results.

 

If you seek better penmanship, seek it, do it, do your time, and not the pen.

This is the best advice I think I've gotten in a year.
I've been killing myself and wasting money trying to build the perfect flex pen and/or buy the perfect flex pen.

It's time to do something else.
I will take the path of Broad/Cursive italic and leave this flex-nib stupidity, frustration and depression behind.

Thank you!!!

[sansenri]

3 hours ago, Detman101 said:

This is the best advice I think I've gotten in a year.
I've been killing myself and wasting money trying to build the perfect flex pen and/or buy the perfect flex pen.

It's time to do something else.
I will take the path of Broad/Cursive italic and leave this flex-nib stupidity, frustration and depression behind.

Thank you!!!

 

You are missing the point.

Ok, there is extreme or accentuated flex (full flex/wet noodle by common definitions), where you actually need to learn a technique to use it and obtain beautiful calligraphy.

The hidden treasure for ordinary mortals is "regular flex" as Bo Bo defines it.

That is the kind of limited flex that you don't really notice but it's there, and when you write, without really thinking about it, you get some line variation...

In addition to that, you can write much faster than a flex nib, and the bouncy/soft ride makes writing less tiring.

(it does not work the same for everyone so YMMV, but that is generally what a regular flex nib does)

A typical example is Pelikan M200 nibs, and some of their vintage gold nibs (on the 140, 400NN, 100 - but here it's more difficult to set a comparison, you can find a stiff 140 nib and a very soft one, almost each nib is different).

 

The line variation you get with a stub/CI is different from the variation you get from a semi flex/regular flex nib,

but can be equally nice. It's a matter of choice.

If it satisfies you then that's fine.

[Detman101]

17 minutes ago, sansenri said:

 

You are missing the point.

Ok, there is extreme or accentuated flex (full flex/wet noodle by common definitions), where you actually need to learn a technique to use it and obtain beautiful calligraphy.

The hidden treasure for ordinary mortals is "regular flex" as Bo Bo defines it.

That is the kind of limited flex that you don't really notice but it's there, and when you write, without really thinking about it, you get some line variation...

In addition to that, you can write much faster than a flex nib, and the bouncy/soft ride makes writing less tiring.

(it does not work the same for everyone so YMMV, but that is generally what a regular flex nib does)

A typical example is Pelikan M200 nibs, and some of their vintage gold nibs (on the 140, 400NN, 100 - but here it's more difficult to set a comparison, you can find a stiff 140 nib and a very soft one, almost each nib is different).

 

The line variation you get with a stub/CI is different from the variation you get from a semi flex/regular flex nib,

but can be equally nice. It's a matter of choice.

If it satisfies you than that's fine.

ahhh...I see. Sounds like the flex I get from my Mabie Todd & Co Swan pen. Slight line variation when writing normally, but very flexy when pressed and slowly written with. I have that already, however...the pen is the size of a crayola and hurts my hand to write with.

In the note I received from Gena Salorino with the needlepoint flex nib I recently commissioned, it looks like she used an italic nib or a small broad nib? Not sure, but I definitely prefer the beautiful curves that a flex nib produces...I just am losing my patience with the whole "Flex-Nib" arena due to my poor choice in pens.
Please forgive my petulance...once I have some time and more information, my attitude will improve. For now, I just need to stay away from my flex pens for a while.
I will find comfort in the arms of my "Delike - Element" for a few weeks.
Then start fresh with an Opus-88 demonstrator two months from now.

[sansenri]

Well, obviously you need to make your own experience.

But I can tell you that not everybody needs very pronounced flex. I don't for example. I would probably love to write in beautiful calligraphy with a flex nib, but so far I don't have the skill, nor the time, nor the patience to learn... perhaps in future (never say never).

But I do appreciate flexy nibs, especially if they are moderately flexy.

I don't put pressure as I write, so line variation I get is marginal, but it's there (with a flexy nib). Also I write fast, and when you are fast you cannot put much pressure, you need to stay light on the nib. If the nib has some flex you'll get some line variation even if you stay light and write fast (if the nib is stiff you won't get any).

Don't go losing your patience, the beautiful calligraphy aspect requires exactly that, patience and exercise!

If like me, writing is a need at work (fast and tidy notes), there's no point in worrying too much about beautiful calligraphy, the target is order and readability, viceversa if it's for the fun and personal satisfaction, then it won't be the nib or the pen to take you there... it's practice!