Can I Buy A New Flex Pen? If Not, Why Not?

[Pemako]

Please excuse my ignorance. I have hung around fountain pen forums a bit, but never seen any satisfactory reply to my question.

 

Firstly, there is this assumption: If you want a good flex fountain pen you must buy vintage, Mabie Todd or the like.

This is all well and good, I can see that there are some fantastic vintage flex pens available for sale but to me there are problems.

1. High price.

2. You can not be certain of the quality of the item you are getting. It might be clogged up with old ink, there might be problems that you will not find out about until you pay a large sum of money for the pen.

3. Deterioration such as cracked plastic, fading, malfunctioning filling system, etc.

 

Decades ago there did not seem to be any problem associated with mass producing fountain pens with gorgeous flex. For some reason it seems to have become very hard if not impossible these days. The footnote from all pen reviews discussing modern pens with some flex always seems to be this: "The pen has some flex and line variations , but it is not comparable to a vintage flex pen."

 

Quite simply, why are no new fountain pens as good in terms of flex as some vintage pens are? Is there some secret metallurgy/manufacturing process that has been forgotten?

 

http://s32.postimg.org/tdeoccqqt/mabie.jpg

Can I buy a new pen that writes like that?

Edited May 5, 2016 by Pemako

[kapanak]

Not like that. Flex pens are simply not in demand.

 

However, there are very great options for modern flex pens. My personal favourite is the Pilot Custom Heritage 912 with the FALCON (FA) nib. This is similar to the Pilot Falcon's own nib, but has a couple of small cutouts on the side that allows further flex. There are a few nibsmiths that will add further flexibility to this pen. http://www.nibs.com/pilot-custom-912.htm

Also check Amazon for the Japanese retailers selling through Amazon (shipped by Amazon, also Prime eligible), which have this pen for almost 70% cheaper than American retailers (though forgoing warranty in America).

 

There are the Noodler's flex pens that have a steel flex nib.

 

Omas had a couple of semi-flex nibs.

 

Platinum has some soft nibs as well (semi-flex).

 

Other than that, you have to go back to an era where flex pens were slightly more in demand, especially if you want XF-BBBB level of soft flexibility. Even back in the 20's to 50's, flex pens were in scarce use.

 

Don't forget that even if you get a pen with the kind of flex you show in the photo above, writing like that takes a special level of skill and practice.

Edited May 5, 2016 by kapanak

[Pemako]

Not like that. Flex pens are simply not in demand.

 

Don't forget that even if you get a pen with the kind of flex you show in the photo above, writing like that takes a special level of skill and practice.

 

Thank you. I find it hard to believe that they are not in demand given how much people will pay for one...

Edited May 5, 2016 by Pemako

[kapanak]

 

Thank you. I find it hard to believe that they are no in demand given how much people will pay for one...

 

I meant in the grand scheme of things. Given the worldwide pen market, fountain pens as a whole are a tiny tiny fraction, especially more so every year as schools stop cursive teaching and requiring a fountain pen even in Europe. Flex pens and the style of writing and calligraphy that comes along with it is a tiny portion of the fountain pen community, and most of the folks in that niche are satisfied with flex dip pens, including artists. Flexible, very wet and huge line variation nibs on fountain pens are an even smaller niche within the flex pen niche, and mostly the supply matches demand and is provided by vintage pens.

 

As I mentioned, there are a few notable flex and semi-flex modern options out there, but nothing like the offerings of the pre-WWII era flex fountain pens.

 

Most folks that want a flexible fountain pen and are surprised by the lack of modern options bring up such a subject because the price of entry is indeed prohibitive. However, I highly recommend investing in a flex pen if you are really interested, as they will last you quite a while (as seen by the 70+ years old pens still in the market).

[Pemako]

Thank you. I really appreciate your well reasoned and informative reply.

 

http://s32.postimg.org/m3c8ln16t/falcon.jpg

Edited May 5, 2016 by Pemako

[Uncial]

There is flex to be had out there, but as you say, it is at a cost. I have given up on ebay completely when it comes to flex. Every other vintage pen listed seems to have flex nowadays, even pens and nibs that were never made to be flexible in any way whatsoever. I've had my fair share of bad experiences of pens described as 'super flex' and 'wet noodle' and when I ink it up I have a nail in my hand. I've had more than my fair share of complete stinkers too, described as 'mint' and 'excellent condition' that were really and honestly only fit for the bin, or perhaps salvageable for only one small part. In the vast majority of cases the pen has been returned for a full refund and in that sense I have been fortunate, but the hassle of it has been a pain combine with the sense of disappointment and the rapidly shrinking list of reputable sellers. Sadly, even the feedback doesn't seem to reliable in many of these instances. Recently though I did hit gold and a beautiful Mabie Todd in very fine condition. Sadly it also was described as 'very flexible' and even had the pictures to prove it. On getting it, not only was the nib and feed the wrong size, but it was very definitely a complete nail. In this instance a kind friend helped me out to make a great pen of it.

 

My advice would be that if you want true flex, go vintage. Buy from a known seller with a website, be prepared to pay for it and ask about their returns policy. Avoid ebay like it carries the Black plague.

[AAAndrew]

My advice to these questions is always the same. Before you plonk down serious change on a beautiful old flex pen, spend a little tiny bit of money and get a flexible dip nib and see if you even like writing with a flexible nib. You can go to someplace like John Neal Books, get a Zebra G nib, a straight holder (because you're looking to see if you want to write with a straight fountain pen) and give it a shot. It is not like writing with a nail. A stiff nib needs you to move your hands in two dimensions across a flat page. With a flex nib you add a third dimension, up and down, to the movement. It takes some getting used to, and not everyone likes it.

 

But if you do, then by all means, get a nice vintage pen. I went this route and liked the dip nibs so much I never went on to the flexible fountain pens.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

It's the writer that wrote like that....lots and lots of practice, one must learn to draw the letters.

As Andrew said, start with dip pens, to see if you have the patience to actually spend the time practicing to make it worth while.

 

By the time you have spent the time, you will have saved the money. When or if, then Mauricio could set you up for sure.....not all Waterman 52's have a Wet Noodle.

[Mulrich]

It's all part of a grand conspiracy by tech companies to eliminate all forms of handwriting.

 

Greg Minuskin (http://gregminuskin.com) seems to specialize in flex pens and lists a few each week but they sell quickly.

[Gofixmix]

Please excuse my ignorance. I have hung around fountain pen forums a bit, but never seen any satisfactory reply to my question.

 

Firstly, there is this assumption: If you want a good flex fountain pen you must buy vintage, Mabie Todd or the like.

This is all well and good, I can see that there are some fantastic vintage flex pens available for sale but to me there are problems.

1. High price.

2. You can not be certain of the quality of the item you are getting. It might be clogged up with old ink, there might be problems that you will not find out about until you pay a large sum of money for the pen.

3. Deterioration such as cracked plastic, fading, malfunctioning filling system, etc.

 

Decades ago there did not seem to be any problem associated with mass producing fountain pens with gorgeous flex. For some reason it seems to have become very hard if not impossible these days. The footnote from all pen reviews discussing modern pens with some flex always seems to be this: "The pen has some flex and line variations , but it is not comparable to a vintage flex pen."

 

Quite simply, why are no new fountain pens as good in terms of flex as some vintage pens are? Is there some secret metallurgy/manufacturing process that has been forgotten?

 

http://s32.postimg.org/tdeoccqqt/mabie.jpg

 

Can I buy a new pen that writes like that?

 

I'm sure you heard about Jinhao and Zebra G nib combo.

Seems to be bit controversial, but I'm a noobie, this was the first thing that I did and it works fine.

It's still the original nib I put in 2 months ago.

I heat-set the feed, widened the feed channels and most importantly, smoothed the tip a lot on micro mesh and waterstones, so it writes like normal FP and I repeat it every time it gets scratchy. It lost the hairline, but I prefer it this way.

 

It's great to be able to take it anywhere and what I most dislike about dip nibs is the open bottle of ink- a ticking time bomb!

 

My only worry is the nib rusting and fusing with the pen, but I only pulled it out 2-3 times to clean, so far, so good.

 

Anybody put some vintage non-rusting gold dip nib into Jinhao?

(Sorry for my imitation of calligraphy, one day I'll start to practice

[Uncial]

I rinse through the Zebra G nibs when used with a Jinhao. They rust up very quickly. I've started using them with the dip nib again.

[ac12]

It comes down to manufacturing economics.

What you hear about flex on FPN is a 'tiny' portion of the global sales.

In order for a manufacturer to not loose money making a flex nib, he has to sell THOUSANDS of nibs, maybe TENS OF THOUSANDS. Because in manufacturing, you do not make just a few of anything, you have to make a LARGE run, for it to make sense, to cover the large fixed cost of making the dies, setup, etc. And the nibs won't be cheap either, likely $150++ per nib.

 

Then there is the customer service side.

Someone presses the pen HARD to flex the nib WIDE, and 'BOING' he springs the nib. Then he complains to the manufacturer, that the nib was defective and he wants a new nib, and he wants the nib covered under warranty.

Watching some of the stuff on YouTube, if I were a manufacturer, I would not want to put out a flex nib. Or very clearly, "nib damage of any kind, will not be covered under warranty."

Edited May 5, 2016 by ac12

[Buzz_130]

Your solution is to buy a dip pen.

 

A true flex pen demands a practiced touch, an art of crafting each letter, and the time to learn. In the Golden Age of fountain pens, you'll find mostly nails for nibs. Handwriting became an office necessity, and the requirement to take rapid notes led to a change in handwriting methods. And as fountain pens took off, the requirement to repair nibs went with the explosive growth. The requirement was to create durable and useful nibs.

 

The population using fountain pens is small today. Most of us have passable handwriting that gets better with the fun of using a good fountain pen. I take my pens to the office, and I never bring my vintage flex. It's fun to play in a journal, but it's not useful in the office environment when I'm working.

 

Even as a fountain pen user and collector, I wouldn't buy a modern flex. I just don't have the time to practice the art of handwriting with a flex.

 

Buzz

[aeba]

It comes down to manufacturing economics.

What you hear about flex on FPN is a 'tiny' portion of the global sales.

In order for a manufacturer to not loose money making a flex nib, he has to sell THOUSANDS of nibs, maybe TENS OF THOUSANDS. Because in manufacturing, you do not make just a few of anything, you have to make a LARGE run, for it to make sense, to cover the large fixed cost of making the dies, setup, etc. And the nibs won't be cheap either, likely $150++ per nib.

 

Then there is the customer service side.

Someone presses the pen HARD to flex the nib WIDE, and 'BOING' he springs the nib. Then he complains to the manufacturer, that the nib was defective and he wants a new nib, and he wants the nib covered under warranty.

Watching some of the stuff on YouTube, if I were a manufacturer, I would not want to put out a flex nib. Or very clearly, "nib damage of any kind, will not be covered under warranty."

I may be jaded, but I have a gut feeling that topics about new flex pens would be like topics about the new Pelikan 120 are now.

[Mauricio]

The following article will shed some light into the wonderful world of flexible nibs ...

http://www.vintagepen.net/performance-flex.html

Edited May 7, 2016 by Mauricio

[Sasha Royale]

Disillusion ahead !

 

The pen does not flex. At least, I hope it does not. The nib flexes. The pen should not. Some pens have nibs that flex more readily than others. With a heavy hand, one can make a Jinhao x450 nib flex. For a price, you can have a flexible nib installed on almost any pen.

 

There is no magic in a pen nib. May I draw your attention to the beautiful penmanship above, of members Gofixmix and AAAndrew ? Of course the flexible nib allows line variation, but the control of the line width, and the beauty of the writing, comes from the "nut that holds the pen barrel", and countless hours of devoted practice.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Sasha Royale

[sidthecat]

There was a recent thread about Shawn Newton's experiments in creating flexible nibs for his custom pens - according to said thread pretty successful ones. When I sell my mother's condo I may order one.