Leaking W/ J. Herbin's Terre De Feu?

[Guardy]

Hey folks, I have a bit of a problem.

 

I've been using J. Herbin cartridges with Terre de Feu in several different pens and two of them suddenly decided to spew ink everywhere until the cartridge was completely empty as soon as the ink level was getting low-ish.

 

I have also been using cartridges with Eclat de Saphir as well as Ambre de Birmanie; the pens inked with those two inks have been subjected to the exact same conditions (as in: they were in the same bag AND in the same position with a similar ink level) and no leakage whatsoever has occurred.

 

There were some moderate temperature changes and vibrations (walking and public transport) involved, but the pens didn't get any warmer than they would have in my hand and nothing remotely similar has happened to me in over a decade of fountain pen and cartridge usage.

 

Is it the pens (one was a dubiously well-fitting frankenpen, the other a possible freebie-pen from who-knows-when/where)? Is it the cartridges? Is this a known problem with this ink color?

Terre de Feu is a very unfortunate ink color to smear all over the place (looks exactly like dried blood on light fabric and like badly-healed burn wounds on skin and it's the worst) and I'd rather not have that happen again, but I also kind of like the ink and would like to keep using it, so I'd be very interested in hearing what you all think about that.

[lgsoltek]

My uneducated guess is that the heat from your palm expands the air in the cartridge, resulting in the ink spewing. Maybe the pen barrel is too thin or the space between the barrel and the cartridge too small so that the heat from your palm is effectively transferred to the cartridge?

[Guardy]

My uneducated guess is that the heat from your palm expands the air in the cartridge, resulting in the ink spewing. Maybe the pen barrel is too thin or the space between the barrel and the cartridge too small so that the heat from your palm is effectively transferred to the cartridge?

Thanks for the comment! Makes sense in theory and would've been my guess too, normally, but that can't be it. The pens were spewing while capped and in my bag (which is part of why I REALLY don't want that to happen again), the measurements of the two pens are incredibly different, one has a barrel that is quite a bit wider than the cartridge (comparable to an AL-Star) and I've used both pens for years in the same conditions without this happening even once, which is part of why I'm so puzzled.

[grainweevil]

Have you had a careful look at the cartridges? I had exactly this happen with a Violette Pensée cartridge in a Jinhao 599, and investigation revealed the mouth of the cartridge had split. Thus air rushed in, ink rushed out, violet fingers all round.

[Guardy]

Have you had a careful look at the cartridges? I had exactly this happen with a Violette Pensée cartridge in a Jinhao 599, and investigation revealed the mouth of the cartridge had split. Thus air rushed in, ink rushed out, violet fingers all round.

Yes, actually - I've had that happen with several J. Herbin carts so far (which is... not good), so that was my first thought, but this time I had a good long look at the cartridge and it's 100% not damaged.

(Interestingly: broken cart =/= leaks; The last Eclat de Saphir cart I had in my Pentel Tradio did the splitting thing, too, and there was no leak whatsoever. Which is slightly odd, but I'm absolutely okay with that)

 

That's the main reason why I'm asking you folks - I wouldn't worry about bad carts, since I'm currently switching to converters anyway, but the possibility of the ink being the cause of the spewing is slightly worrying, to say the least.

[grainweevil]

Huh, and there I was thinking I was just unlucky in the number of Herbin cartridge failures I've had - no-one seems to mention it. I've had the split-but-didn't-leak thing too.

 

But back to the original issue. And... okay, this is a bit of a wild guess, and I know you've said the pens were in the same conditions etc etc, but I remember reading once about someone putting their bag on/near a heating vent and not realising it until the discovery of the caps of inky doom. Any chance something like that could have happened...?

[Guardy]

Huh, and there I was thinking I was just unlucky in the number of Herbin cartridge failures I've had - no-one seems to mention it. I've had the split-but-didn't-leak thing too.

 

But back to the original issue. And... okay, this is a bit of a wild guess, and I know you've said the pens were in the same conditions etc etc, but I remember reading once about someone putting their bag on/near a heating vent and not realising it until the discovery of the caps of inky doom. Any chance something like that could have happened...?

Nah, J. Herbin cartridges are really just that awful /shrug

 

Nope. Well, yes, but nope.

 

Okay, here's the deal: I'm a university student. I always carry a leather messenger bag to put my stuff in when I go to university, since I don't even bother going outside without at least four different notebooks, a folder, a notepad and a ridiculous amount of books. Since I also do a bit of sketching in my free time (and my not-so-free-time if the lecture is boring and/or the Prof's face is amusing... cough), I also have a rather roomy pen pouch in that bag.

In said pen pouch, I keep at least half a dozen fountain pens at any given time. So, in this case "same conditions" means "in exactly the same spot at exactly the same time".

Even if I'd put the bag somewhere unreasonably hot (which I didn't, apart from a short walk in the sun*, since there's no such thing anywhere near me at Uni and I keep my bag on my knees in the bus because I'm NOT going to put my vintage leather bag of pretty high sentimental value on the filthy bus floor), all the pens would have been leaking, not just the two with the half-empty Terre de Feu carts.

And the other pens - ALL of them - were completely fine. I checked, right at the beginning of the lecture, while deciding which ones to use.

 

So I guess it really boils down to "is it the cartridge + ink combo or is the bottled ink equally bad"...

 

*I've spent far more time in the sun with the bag and the pens before - again, without leakage

[jmccarty3]

Some inks in some pens will leak (or at least demonstrate increased flow) when almost empty. This is the reason for the advice to carry completely full or completely empty pens when traveling by air.

[chromantic]

1> Nah, J. Herbin cartridges are really just that awful /shrug

 

2> So I guess it really boils down to "is it the cartridge + ink combo or is the bottled ink equally bad"

 

1> Must be that 3-day French work week; you obviously got carts made on Tue or Thu, not the good Wed ones.

 

2> Try different carts maybe? Buy a cheap 6-pack of Pelikans, empty a couple, refill with the bottled Herbin and see if you get the same result. Might carry those pens in zip-lock bags in you pen case, just in case.

[Guardy]

 

2> Try different carts maybe? Buy a cheap 6-pack of Pelikans, empty a couple, refill with the bottled Herbin and see if you get the same result. Might carry those pens in zip-lock bags in you pen case, just in case.

 

Clever! Not perfect, since it necessitates actually buying the bottled version, but anyway, clever idea.

 

... speaking of that, I MIGHT actually be able to just re-fill ink from one cart into another, which would be really neat. I'm probably not going to be able to transfer ALL the ink, but then again, I don't really have to, since the interesting part are half-filled cartridges anyway.

I think I might give that a try soon.

 

Using ziploc bags for that experiment sound like an awesome idea, by the way.