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Monteverde Brown - Bottle And Cartridge 2016

monteverde brown bottle cartridge

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#1 chromantic

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 11:36

Here's my scans of Monteverde Brown both bottle and cartridge. I was excited when I got the carts as the packaging had "copyright 2010" on it, possibly the original formula but in testing it sure seems to be the same as the bottled ink.

 

With the bottle ink, I had bad problem with hard starts and really bad skipping on block letters with first 2 pens I tried, a Kaweco Sport M and a Hemisphere M (wasn't as bad with cursive's long, continuous strokes). Had same problem with Jinhao Safari M so tried a Luxor Vector and it worked perfectly there. But I left the Jinhao sit overnight and when I tried it the next day, the hard stops and skipping were gone, so probably didn't let ink feed completely on 1st 2 pens.

 

Tried a Baoer 801 F after the Vector and was surprised when a big drop of ink fell on paper during a pause while writing! I saw that if I just held the pen, nib down, a drop of ink would form fairly quickly (maybe 1 1/2 mins?) on the end of the feed and then drop onto the paper unless I started writing before it fell. The ink can really be described as "gushing" on that Baoer, laying down a then but very wet line. That 's the 1st time I've encountered ink dripping from a pen like that.

 

Carts arrived and I flushed the Jinhao and put one in it; for the bottle ink, I kept the Vector and added a Pelikano M, a pretty wet writer with a broad line. The Jinhao is also fairly wet, though not like the Baoer was.

 

On cheap memo book paper, all 3 pens performed well, not too wet as the paper absorbed quickly. Color was like the 3 bears - Vector F a nice medium shade, Jinhao a little darker and Pelikano definitely darker. That matched the line width - Vector thin, Jinhao a smidge thicker, Pelikano thick.

 

Feathering on the memo was really minimal, only the Jinhao showed an ever-so-slighty fuzziness.

 

I've added a new test book for trying out inks, a Strathmore Sketch pad; it has thick, very white paper with a "fine tooth surface" and is actually intended for dry media. I like it because it is so white and doesn't absorb the ink so readily; I've come to realize how much the absorbency of cheap paper, especially the little memo books I was using, can affect the color I'm seeing and that the hard white surface of the Strathmore pad gives me a better idea of what the ink should look like.

 

The difference between the three pens was even more pronounced on the Strathmore. The Vector's line seems a little thinner while the Jinhao's seems a little heavier. Ink glistens as it's laying down, indicating the wetness. Most surprising is the color, though; now the Jinhao line is darker than the Pelikano. Results on the scan are closer to the memo paper than to the sketch pad in that regard.

 

Some shading is also noticeable on the Strathmore, most obviously on the Pelikano but some on the Vector, as well.

 

Overall, I like this particular color of brown. I would call it medium-dark brown that's not too light or too dark, it's not reddish or orange-ish, it's not really yellow-ish, either, it's just a nice brown.

 

It's very wet - watery, I guess you'd call it, so you might have to try it in a few pens before you find one it works well in.

 

By the same token, there's lots of good browns in this range from other manufacturers so there's no particular reason to chose this one over others unless you like this particular shade, like I did when I saw Sandy1's review.

 

Price on ebay runs $14-15 (incl ship) for a generous 90ml bottle. I stumbled on a bargain (spurring me to buy), $5 +$4 ship. The cartridges, I paid $4.45 for 3 6-packs w/ free shipping; that works out to 19 cents each - can't beat that.

 

So, without further ado, onto the scans. Scans seem reasonably accurate.

 

fpn_1461835993__mv_brn1_2.jpg

fpn_1461835890__mnb4_1.jpg

fpn_1461840646__mvb_5_1.jpg

 

My thanks to Sandy1 for both the original review and the encouragement to post one myself.


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#2 visvamitra

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 11:53

Not bad.



#3 Tas

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 13:11

Great review as always but the red in it hurts my eyes . . .  :wacko:



#4 lapis

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 19:31

Ditto and thanks for your nice work on it. Especially the use of the three pens as that shows how different the colour can end up.

 

Mike


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#5 Sandy1

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 19:28

Hi,

 

Many thanks for sharing your work with and observations of the current production ink in both cartridge and bottle!

 

I'm glad that the ink in the cartridge is much the same as the ink in the bottle, which was not the case when I first sampled this ink.

 

My personal taste in Brown ink is not Red-leaning, so I run those inks from wet pens and/or onto absorbent papers to submerge the colour. Unfortunately, when I do so with Monteverde Brown, it tends to breach the performance envelope, so bleed- show-through and line width gain (spread) can occur, along with loss of shading. 

 

​To expand the performance envelope, would it be too rude to suggest blending this ink with Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Brown?

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 06 May 2016 - 19:36.

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#6 chromantic

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 04:19

I'm not sure what "red-leaning" you mean; I was also puzzled by Tas' comment about his eyes hurting from all the red in it.

 

One of the things I like about this color is that, to my eye, it's a nice brown that isn't red-ish (or orange- or yellow-ish). On my monitor, the color in my scans is similar, if somewhat darker, to the color in your scans - brown.

 

Are other people seeing something different than what I perceive? Are they seeing a rich mahogany where I see plain brown? It would surely be a cause for concern to think my vision is deteriorating in some way. Yet I can clearly see the difference between MV Brown and Oxblood; I can clearly  see the red in that, where I see none in the MV.

 

As for the performance issues,well, it is what it is - watery and prone to spread and show-through on cheap, absorbent paper. It took several tries to find a pen it worked well in. I addressed these issues in my review. My problem was finding a pen dry enough that the ink didn't gush out of, while you say (if I'm reading it correctly) you need a wet one to submerge a red-leaning you see in the color, which then of course only exacerbates the spread and show- and bleed-through.

 

***** Sorry, have to get ready for work now, will continue this later. ****


It's hard work to tell which is Old Harry when everybody's got boots on.


#7 Tas

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 10:58

I'm not sure what "red-leaning" you mean; I was also puzzled by Tas' comment about his eyes hurting from all the red in it.

 

One of the things I like about this color is that, to my eye, it's a nice brown that isn't red-ish (or orange- or yellow-ish). On my monitor, the color in my scans is similar, if somewhat darker, to the color in your scans - brown.

 

 

 

No offence or disrespect meant.  :unsure:

My pet hate with browns is the red left behind when washed away (if that makes sense). I can clearly see, from your excellent review, tons of red.

 

Nothing else.



#8 chromantic

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 11:07

 

No offence or disrespect meant.  :unsure:

My pet hate with browns is the red left behind when washed away (if that makes sense). I can clearly see, from your excellent review, tons of red.

 

Nothing else.

 

None taken, Taz. Thought maybe a joke that went over my head but I see now you mean the smear and water test.

 

Looking again at the scan, I can see that there is a slight reddish cast that is not evident on the actual test sheet, especially on the "smear test cart" but also to some extent on the water test and on the 1 sec smears. So thank you for pointing that out. On the test sheet, while the cart smear does have what sort of looks like some pinkishness to it, it is less so on the water test and the 1 sec smears are definitely brown. In normal writing, there is no reddish cast that I can see.

 

I can send you a couple of carts if you'd like to test it for yourself.

 

After posting the review, I went back and did one of those drop on a wet paper towel tests - the color there was a brown over a salmon-ish pink with a halo of light green/light blue, so brown>pink>green>blue. I tried to scan it but it didn't come out too well.


Edited by chromantic, 08 May 2016 - 11:11.

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#9 Tas

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 11:35

 

None taken, Taz. Thought maybe a joke that went over my head but I see now you mean the smear and water test.

 

Looking again at the scan, I can see that there is a slight reddish cast that is not evident on the actual test sheet, especially on the "smear test cart" but also to some extent on the water test and on the 1 sec smears. So thank you for pointing that out. On the test sheet, while the cart smear does have what sort of looks like some pinkishness to it, it is less so on the water test and the 1 sec smears are definitely brown. In normal writing, there is no reddish cast that I can see.

 

I can send you a couple of carts if you'd like to test it for yourself.

 

After posting the review, I went back and did one of those drop on a wet paper towel tests - the color there was a brown over a salmon-ish pink with a halo of light green/light blue, so brown>pink>green>blue. I tried to scan it but it didn't come out too well.

 

Phew, I'm glad.

Thanks too for your kind offer but I tested Monteverde Brown ages ago, cartridges not bottles, in my quest to find THE brown. I thought I'd give it a go as I'm a fan of their Blue Black and their Black but like sooo many other browns this was just too red in the wash for me. I predominantly use my inks for sketching with water wash and find the red annoys me. Otherwise I agree this is a lovely ink.

Thanks again.



#10 chromantic

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 13:28

(continue to Sandy1)

 

As for mixing it with another ink? Not to be dismissive but, honestly, why bother? Mixing might improve performance, at the risk of changing the color. And if it doesn't change the color, why not just use that other color to begin with? There's certainly plenty of well-behaved inks of a similar color out there. But you have more experience in these matters and may see some practical consideration that I do not.

 

I bought MVB because I liked the color I saw in your scans; sure, it has some fairly obvious problems but I found a pen that it works reasonably well in and that helps to minimize some of its ill effects (good paper helps, too), so I'm satisfied with it and will continue to use it in this one pen. (I might try it in an Herbin rollerball at some point.)

 

I had the same problems (except even worse) with Levenger Claret, btw - horrible spreading, show- and bleed-through, especially on cheap, absorbent paper. But I eventually found a pen that it, too, works fairly well in. I'd be hard-pressed to recommend it to anyone, though.

 

Not adverse to mixing, btw, though at this stage it's just mixing one color with another. Current project is the Diamine Ruby/KWZI Grapefruit mix.


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#11 chromantic

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 13:42

 

[...] like sooo many other browns this was just too red in the wash for me. I predominantly use my inks for sketching with water wash ...

 

Ah, now I understand. (I used to do watercolor.)


Edited by chromantic, 08 May 2016 - 13:43.

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#12 Sandy1

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 21:13

I'm not sure what "red-leaning" you mean; I was also puzzled by Tas' comment about his eyes hurting from all the red in it.

 

One of the things I like about this color is that, to my eye, it's a nice brown that isn't red-ish (or orange- or yellow-ish). On my monitor, the color in my scans is similar, if somewhat darker, to the color in your scans - brown.

 

Are other people seeing something different than what I perceive? Are they seeing a rich mahogany where I see plain brown? It would surely be a cause for concern to think my vision is deteriorating in some way. Yet I can clearly see the difference between MV Brown and Oxblood; I can clearly  see the red in that, where I see none in the MV.

 

As for the performance issues,well, it is what it is - watery and prone to spread and show-through on cheap, absorbent paper. It took several tries to find a pen it worked well in. I addressed these issues in my review. My problem was finding a pen dry enough that the ink didn't gush out of, while you say (if I'm reading it correctly) you need a wet one to submerge a red-leaning you see in the color, which then of course only exacerbates the spread and show- and bleed-through.

 

***** Sorry, have to get ready for work now, will continue this later. ****

 

 

Hi,

 

The colour we with Western sensibilities call Brown covers a huge range of Hues.

> See Wiki 'Shades of Brown' https://en.wikipedia...Shades_of_brown

> Also the two-part tour de force of Member dcpritch finding the handle on Sepia http://www.fountainp...inks/?p=2176436

 

My preference is more toward low-Chroma Browns, such as R&K Sepia, rather than the Red-Yellow leaning inks such as Noodler's Kiowa Pecan; and even when Noodler's #41 Brown was reformulated in 2012, it was just that bit too warm for yours truly so fell out of favour due to the new Hue even though the performance profile was admirable.

 

We are spoiled for choice, and I try my best not to be critical of the choices of others - except Lamy Green - and admit I'm still trying to figure-out the appeal of Black FP ink. :)

 

Once again, I appreciate your IR, and look forward to the next ones.

 

Bye,

S1


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#13 Sandy1

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 21:22

 

Phew, I'm glad.

Thanks too for your kind offer but I tested Monteverde Brown ages ago, cartridges not bottles, in my quest to find THE brown. I thought I'd give it a go as I'm a fan of their Blue Black and their Black but like sooo many other browns this was just too red in the wash for me. I predominantly use my inks for sketching with water wash and find the red annoys me. Otherwise I agree this is a lovely ink.

Thanks again.

 

Hi,

 

Hmmm...

 

I understand your desire to use inks that are monochromatic when used as a wash, but I was wondering (blonde curiosity) about inks such a Private Reserve Chocolat which is composed of dyes with very different properties when exposed to water, as shown in the Wet Tests.

d815d31b.jpg

 

Perhaps that is better asked & answered in another Forum, so feel free to ask a Mod to move this Post, and not derail this thread.

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 08 May 2016 - 21:37.

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#14 migo984

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 21:35

Monteverde inks are known to be very wet. In my experience the Brown is especially prone to leaking from the bottle & literally dripping from the nib. It is almost unmanageable in some pens.

They add what they call ITF treatment to "improve ink-flow". In my opinion they've over-done it. It's described by them as:

"Monteverde USA® is proud to introduce the world’s latest leading European ink treatment formula which drastically improves ink-flow quality in all fountain pens

ITF™ Ink Treatment Formula that:
• Drastically improves ink-flow quality
• Extends cap-off time
• Lubricates and protects the ink feeding systems from corrosion and clogging
• Improves ink drying time on paper"

However, I do love this Brown ink & persevere with it occasionally because of the colour.

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#15 Tas

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 22:03

 

Hi,

 

Hmmm...

 

I understand your desire to use inks that are monochromatic when used as a wash, but I was wondering (blonde curiosity) about inks such a Private Reserve Chocolat which is composed of dyes with very different properties when exposed to water, as shown in the Wet Tests.

d815d31b.jpg

 

Perhaps that is better asked & answered in another Forum, so feel free to ask a Mod to move this Post, and not derail this thread.

 

Bye,

S1

 

Oh, don't get me wrong Sandy1, I adore inks that display their DNA when washed over, Diamine Salamander, Sailor's Cigar, KWZI Hunter Green, Grey Plum, R&K Leipziger Schwarz, even the humble Parker Quink Black all split beautifully and are all regulars in my pens and sketches.

It's just one of my idiosyncrasies. I don't like reds washing out of my browns  :blush:  :( 

I really enjoyed using my Yama Guri sample as a writing ink but could never wash over any sketch made with it - all that pink revealing itself on the paper  :wacko:

Mont Blanc Toffee Brown was the same too, lovely ink and line colour but too orangey red in the wash. I gave my bottle away.

(I kept my Havana Brown though, it plays well with other inks when mixing.  B) )

 

PS. I really enjoy using Caran d'Ache's Magnetic Blue but only for writing, it goes all pinky too when washed over.
 


Edited by Tas, 09 May 2016 - 18:53.


#16 Chrissy

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 22:15

Thank you for the review.  :)

 

I bought a bottle of this ink thinking it was a slightly reddish brown, but was disappointed to find that it isn't. Mine is quite a dark brown. I still like it though  :)

 

It's also a good performer and hasn't seemed particularly wet in the pens I've filled with it.  :)


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#17 Chrissy

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 22:15

Double post.


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