Upgrading From A Parker 45

[Dakota_Wise]

Hello all, I've spent my first year of undergraduate faithfully using my 1967 Parker 45 with a fine nib. I've used it for just about all of my writing, except my lab notebooks (It's a shame there's no way to make carbon copy pages with an FP) It's done quite well, especially after I discovered how to remove the nib to clean it. But now I'm looking to purchase my second pen. In general here is what I am looking for:

 

1. I love the shape, size, and weight of the Parker 45. I've used my brothers Pilot/Namiki Falcon, and I hated the feel of it. To me, the hollow plastic feel of the Falcon made it feel much cheaper than it actually was.

 

2. I think I am probably going to go with an extra-fine nib. I have O-Chem coming up next year, and being able to draw precisely is a must.

 

3. It needs to be sturdy. Being a college student, all of my pens are workhorses. It will probably be used on a day to day basis with a wide array of different paper qualities.

 

4. I would like something a little more smooth than the P45. It's not that my current pen is scratchy, but when compared to the Falcon it feels absolutely terrible.

 

I'm looking to spend somewhere in the 75$ range. That's flexible, but I do not want to be using a pen so expensive that I am afraid to loose it.

 

Before anyone replies, I just want to thank the community here at FPN. Just about a year ago when I was looking to purchase my first pen the response was incredible. Very few other Hobby's are so welcoming to new members. Thanks for the help!

 

 

---Edit----

 

After some responses I don't think an extrafine nib is 100% needed. I would also like to add that I really love the look of vintage pens. It doesn't necessarily need to be something brand new.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Dakota_Wise

[TheRealMikeDr]

I would suggest looking at a Pilot Metropolitan. Retails for less than $20. Made of some type of metal so it feels more substantial than a resin pen. It's a Pilot so the fine nib writes a very fine line.

Edited April 27, 2016 by TheRealMikeDr

[Uncle Red]

An EF nib will generally feel less smooth than an F nib. Also, your 45 may need to have the nib adjusted.

 

I was going to sugest a Parker 51 but that's outside your price range. Many Aisan pens have very fine nibs, consider Pilot, Platinum and Sailor.

[ac12]

In general, the finer the nib, the more scratchy it will feel.

You can minimize this by using a hard smooth paper, an ink with decent lubricating quality, and a light hand.

 

The tipping on some older pens is not as good as many of todays tipping. I have several P45s, so I know what the tipping looks like. This can sometimes be fixed by adjusting, reprofiling and polishing the tip. But this is a tricky task, as once you remove tipping material, you can't put it back.

 

An XF nib on a P45 is pretty darn small. You will NEED to use good paper for a nib that small. This would be like a Lamy XXF nib, if they made one that small.

 

Even with todays pens, as you get down to the EEF and EF nibs, you may have to adjust the nib to write smooth.

 

Here are some ideas:

Lamy, Safari or Vista, EF nib, similar to a P45 F nib.

Pilot Crystal, F nib

Pilot Metropolitan, F nib, but the metal body Metro is about 2x the weight of a P45

TWSBI, Eco, EF nib, similar to a P45 F nib

Edited April 27, 2016 by ac12

[Dakota_Wise]

I would suggest looking at a Pilot Metropolitan. Retails for less than $20. Made of some type of metal so it feels more substantial than a resin pen. It's a Pilot so the fine nib writes a very fine line.

 

The Metropolitan seems like a pen that would have been great for getting me hooked on FPs, but is it really much of an upgrade over the P45?

 

An EF nib will generally feel less smooth than an F nib. Also, your 45 may need to have the nib adjusted.

 

I was going to sugest a Parker 51 but that's outside your price range. Many Aisan pens have very fine nibs, consider Pilot, Platinum and Sailor.

 

I have no doubt my p45 probably needs to be adjusted. When I received it, it was very scratchy. I ended up adjusting it myself, and I'm fairly sure the line is now thicker then what would normally be considered a F.

 

 

In general, the finer the nib, the more scratchy it will feel.

You can minimize this by using a hard smooth paper, an ink with decent lubricating quality, and a light hand.

 

The tipping on some older pens is not as good as many of todays tipping. I have several P45s, so I know what the tipping looks like. This can sometimes be fixed by adjusting, reprofiling and polishing the tip. But this is a tricky task, as once you remove tipping material, you can't put it back.

 

An XF nib on a P45 is pretty darn small. You will NEED to use good paper for a nib that small. This would be like a Lamy XXF nib, if they made one that small.

 

Even with todays pens, as you get down to the EEF and EF nibs, you may have to adjust the nib to write smooth.

 

Here are some ideas:

Lamy, Safari or Vista, EF nib, similar to a P45 F nib.

Pilot Crystal, F nib

Pilot Metropolitan, F nib, but the metal body Metro is about 2x the weight of a P45

TWSBI, Eco, EF nib, similar to a P45 F nib

 

I've never been a fan of the Lamy designs. I much rather prefer the slimmer shape of the p45. A pen two times the weight of a p45 might be getting a little too heavy. I looked at the TWSBI Eco when I was looking for my first pen. I heard mixed reviews on them, there seemed to be an opinion that they were not really reliable.

[TheRealMikeDr]

Ah - an upgrade. My mistake - for some reason I read that as a modern day replacement.

 

I would recommend a Platinum 3776 Century. They go for $170+ retail here in the states but can be had for around $75 on ebay direct from Japan.

 

It's a light pen - with a nice gold nib. It's the classic cigar style pen and while it will have more girth it's a pretty light pen. It's a Japanese pen so the nib will be on the fine side - mine has a fine nib and while it writes a tad wet it's still a pretty fine line.

 

That said - it's a resin pen so it won't feel as substantial as your old Parker.

 

 

Well - after re-reading your post again I'm afraid that may not be in your wheelhouse after all - nonetheless it's a great looking pen and who knows - you may really like it!

Edited April 27, 2016 by TheRealMikeDr

[Runnin_Ute]

What about say a Pelikan 120 with a F or EF? It was designed as a school pen to start with. Either in regular or Merz & Krell configuration. You should be able to pick up a nice one for under $75. I have had both M and EF. The EF is nice.

 

Personally, I like the styling of the M&K a little better. They are from the 1970's where the original is 50's-60's.

 

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/Runnin_Ute/Fountain%20Pens/247-Pelikan120IIGandBNOS-photo2_zps882bcc97.jpg

 

This has an EF. And is a piston filler.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Runnin_Ute

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

I am not much for the very very narrow nibs, but I will be so bold as to suggest a Sheaffer 330 or 444. The inlaid nib has a Waverley shape, so in my hand seems to run more smoothly than even my Pilot Custom with an accountant nib. As with some of the Sheaffer nibs, they can be inverted (feed upwards) to produce a hair's breadth line.

 

My preference is to use a Medium nib on larger sheets of paper (A3+), rather than narrow nibs on itty-bitty scraps of paper. Perhaps that reflects my experience of working on black-whiteboards, so even writing on A0 is OK: Crikey, look at all that open space, let's fill it with ideas! (Also leaves lots of space for error correction!)

 

Its not how small one can write, rather its a matter of what size you prefer to write - your natural hand, and that what's written can be read with ease.

 

Do not fall subject to the tyranny of paper size, ruling, etc

 

__ Edit to add: I see no reason that a P45 cannot produce at least one copy on two-part 'no carbon required' paper. When faced with such a nuisance, I hold my pen in a near vertical posture so that it can withstand the additional force required without torquing the nib from the feed or spreading the tines. The 330/444 nibs are quite rigid, so with careful handing, can do the necessary and then some. That said, if dealing with five-part NCR, I'd bring an Estie J with a 9450 manifold nib [The Steel Driver] to the party.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited April 28, 2016 by Sandy1

[FarmBoy]

Dakota,

 

Where in CA are you? There are a number of resources that are easy to tap if you are in the right local.

 

There is nothing wrong with using a 45 if you like it. I'd not be surprised if a 45 worked just fine for making carbon copies.

 

Farmboy

[KBeezie]

Could always just buy a nice nib for the 45. (To me many pens could be considered a downgrade from a 45.)

 

Afterall they unscrew and change out easily.

Edited April 28, 2016 by KBeezie

[FarmBoy]

Could always just buy a nice nib for the 45. (To me many pens could be considered a downgrade from a 45.)

 

Afterall they unscrew and change out easily.

I've always found it more cost effective to just buy whole 45s instead of just buying nibs. What is the going nib rate and whole pen rate. Lets say for a f or m nib and a nondescript color.

[MKeith]

i agree with others that suggest a new nib for the 45, or you could send your nib to a nibmeister with the price of adjustment/smoothing being in the neighborhood of $20.00-25.00. There are several very good people out there who could make a nib really sing in that price range. One that comes to mind is Linda at Indy-Pen-Dance.

 

My other suggestion would be a Parker 51 Aero which is a definite step up in quality and long range durability. It's hard to kill a 51. PenFisher is a member here on FPN who regularly advertises very nice P51's that are in your price range and the criteria you have expressed, as has Farmboy in the past (Farmboy you there?). If you like your 45 you will love the 51.

Edited April 28, 2016 by MKeith

[ac12]

Why not keep using the P45? I used a pair of P45s all through undergrad. And that is the key "a PAIR of P45s." I had a primary and a backup pens. When the primary pen ran out of ink, or stopped (for whatever reason), I simply switched to the backup pen. Then I dealt with the primary between classes, when I had the time to change ink cartridge or troubleshoot the pen.

 

And there are fountain pens with manifold nibs which will do carbon copies. Those nibs are also perfect for the heavy hand writers who press a fountain pen like they do a ball pen.

 

I've had my Eco inked and in use since Aug 2015, no problems yet.

Edited April 28, 2016 by ac12

[Dakota_Wise]

Dakota,

 

Where in CA are you? There are a number of resources that are easy to tap if you are in the right local.

 

There is nothing wrong with using a 45 if you like it. I'd not be surprised if a 45 worked just fine for making carbon copies.

 

Farmboy

 

Southern California. Orange County to be more specific

 

Could always just buy a nice nib for the 45. (To me many pens could be considered a downgrade from a 45.)

 

Afterall they unscrew and change out easily.

 

I discovered how easy the nibs are to disassemble last week. Ever since I left my pen sitting (with ink) over easter break I could not get it to write without skipping. Low and behold a few google searches later my P45 was as good as new

 

I've always found it more cost effective to just buy whole 45s instead of just buying nibs. What is the going nib rate and whole pen rate. Lets say for a f or m nib and a nondescript color.

 

I've tried finding just the nibs, and I have to agree. I think I got my whole pen for around 20$.

i agree with others that suggest a new nib for the 45, or you could send your nib to a nibmeister with the price of adjustment/smoothing being in the neighborhood of $20.00-25.00. There are several very good people out there who could make a nib really sing in that price range. One that comes to mind is Linda at Indy-Pen-Dance.

 

My other suggestion would be a Parker 51 Aero which is a definite step up in quality and long range durability. It's hard to kill a 51. PenFisher is a member here on FPN who regularly advertises very nice P51's that are in your price range and the criteria you have expressed, as has Farmboy in the past (Farmboy you there?). If you like your 45 you will love the 51.

I think the P51 would be the logical step up from my p45. For some reason I just love the look of the pens from that era.

 

Why not keep using the P45? I used a pair of P45s all through undergrad. And that is the key "a PAIR of P45s." I had a primary and a backup pens. When the primary pen ran out of ink, or stopped (for whatever reason), I simply switched to the backup pen. Then I dealt with the primary between classes, when I had the time to change ink cartridge or troubleshoot the pen.

 

And there are fountain pens with manifold nibs which will do carbon copies. Those nibs are also perfect for the heavy hand writers who press a fountain pen like they do a ball pen.

 

I've had my Eco inked and in use since Aug 2015, no problems yet.

Yes... that would adress my current problem. I decided I needed a second pen after I had an inncident where I ran out of ink during an exam. Making it even worst I did not have another pen or pencil on me. Let's just say raising my hand and asking for a pencil halfway through an exam might be the most embarrasing question I've had thus far

[pajaro]

Can't find a P51 with $75? I haven't been buying them for years now, so maybe you can't. Time to let them go.

[NinthSphere]

A 51 or few would be my suggestion also.

 

Can't find a P51 with $75? I haven't been buying them for years now, so maybe you can't. Time to let them go.

 

All but two of my 51s were acquired sub 50 from ebay. If you can't find one for 75 or less, you aren't looking hard enough, imo.

[dadbar]

Here are several suggestions.

 

If you like your Parker 45, I would suggest looking for a Parker 51 Special. These have steel nibs and are often a little less expensive. I just bought one off Ebay for ~$40 and it is a really smooth writer.

 

Another suggestion would be the Sheaffer Imperial 330. These are really nice smooth writers and are not very expensive. The pen is on the slightly small size but a decent size when posted.

 

Just be careful in the organic chem lab. Stay away from the methyl ethyl ketone, chloroform, methylene chloride, acetone or any of those other nasties that will dissolve your pen.

[corgicoupe]

I would add to this list the possibility of a Sheaffer Targa in either stainless or brass. Similar size to the P45, and you can change nibs.

[georgeb]

Parker 25 with a fine nib.

[pajaro]

A 51 or few would be my suggestion also.

 

 

All but two of my 51s were acquired sub 50 from ebay. If you can't find one for 75 or less, you aren't looking hard enough, imo.

Thanks for the feedback. That's what I thought I saw in the 51 ebay market when last I looked for some 51 parts for a restoration.

 

To the OP: I have owned a lot of 51s, and I have owned a lot of other pens. I haven't found any pen that sells for around what you can get a 51 for that is even nearly as good. Even nearly as good. After reading this thread I looked through some of my 51s, and picked out the last one I bought a few years ago for $25, a buy it now on ebay. Gold filled cap and teal barrel and hood. I inked it up and it wrote perfectly. Perfectly and smoothly. None of this juking and jiving as with Pilot, Waterman or all the other etcetera in the market today. If you can't find a decent 51 for $75 or less, you must not be looking in the right place. However, if you are satisfied with a 45, keep using it or buy another. Or get a real pen, a Parker 51.