Italic/stub Dip Pen Nib

[Mike_in_VT]

Can anyone recommend a dib pen italic/stub nib that isn't "toothy"?

 

I've used the Speedball, Brause Bandzig, and Mitchell's nibs, but those are a bit scratchy.

[jabberwock11]

Italic dip pen nibs are extremely sharp so that they can provide the best possible line variation and crispness. If you're looking for a little less sharpness, then you may want to look at some of the vintage Esterbrook stub nibs like the Jackson 442.

[AAAndrew]

What are you looking for? Sharp italic, or smooth stub? Italic writing? Regular rapid writing? Fine, medium, broad? Straight holder I would assume?

 

I can recommend several once I know what you want to do with it.

 

And remember, a dip nib will never be quite as smooth as a tipped fountain pen nib.

Edited April 27, 2016 by AAAndrew

[Cryptos]

I can second the Esterbrook #442 stub. It's a very pleasant small broad nib to use. Then again I did recently secure a gross (box full) for the princely sum of $21.50. Obviously I like them!

[AAAndrew]

Stub steel nibs were originally designed to be rapid, easier writers than pointed pens. There is a similar category called Engrossing pens that are more like our modern italic nibs. They were for what we would call calligraphy.

 

The Esterbrook 442 is a stub. The Blanzy Ronde as well as the Speedball and Mitchell's are engrossing pens. The stubs are much smoother and come in hundreds of varieties. You can use some stubs for Italic writing if you use the right one, but they're mainly used for rapid, easy writing.

[Inky.Fingers]

The looked oddly the same to me. With some nail polishing blocks they all worked fantastically, just the way you want them to be (both being toothy and smooth.)

[Mike_in_VT]

I'm definitely wanting something closer to a stub. I have the Jackson stub nib on the way now, but wasn't sure if there were smoother options out there.

[AAAndrew]

If you're wanting a stub, there is a veritable banquet of choices. The Jackson Stub is a nice choice, but it's also big (it's a falcon shape) and sometimes that's not what you want.

 

Mostly, stubs come in three sizes of nib: small, medium and long. This is not related to the size of the tip (fine, medium and broad), but to the size of the nib. And then there are the falcon stubs. (like the 442 Jackson stub)

 

From Esterbrook alone, I would recommend the 314 Relief Pen ("It's a Relief to write with"). This nib was so popular that when Esterbrook first started experimenting with fountain pens (made by Wirt, De La Rue, and eventually Conway Stewart), out of all of the nibs they made, they chose the 314 Relief to be the nib. (before the interchangeable Renew-point nibs)

 

Or the Esterbrook 239 Chancellors. This is a smaller sized stub that's a lot of fun to write with. Very smooth and a long-time top seller as well.

 

Or if you're looking for a broader nib, the 313 Probate. Shelby Foote wrote his 3000+ page opus on the American Civil War using this pen. It's what they used to call a "coarse" but we today call "broad" stub.

 

For a finer stub, the 312 Judge's quill, though I find the 239 and 314 much nicer to write with.

 

Hunt made a very nice small size stub, almost identical to the 239, called the 62 (X-62 silverine model). I have a bunch of those and they are quite smooth and a lot of fun to use.

 

For the medium size (length) stubs, I'm also fond of the Spencerian Society Stubs, which come up periodically on eBay. They're flashy with their gold coating, and very high quality, as you expect from Spencerian nibs.

 

Spencerian also made a very nice falcon stub called the Subway Stub that's every bit as good as the Jackson.

 

And no discussion of stubs would be complete without mentioning the extraordinary Spencerian 28 Congressional. A medium-broad long stub pen, but what makes it so amazing is that it's a fully flexible stub. Not everyone's cup of tea, and not necessarily practical for everyday writing, but soooo much fun to write with.

 

There are literally hundreds of styles, but these are some which are more commonly run across in online auctions and other sources of vintage stub dip pens. And perhaps honorable mention should also go to the less common, but very fun, Esterbrook 284 Blackstone stub. A very broad "signature stub" in a striking black coating.

 

This should at least get you started.

[AAAndrew]

One last thing that may also help. writing with a dip stub is different than writing with a fountain pen stub nib. The best way to write, which gives you the best results is to change the orientation of the nib and paper so that the broad edge of the stub is parallel to the line of writing.

 

When writing with an italic nib, to write italic style letters, you hold the nib at about a 45-degree angle to the line of writing. Here's a cheesy ASCII representation of the nib to the line

 

/

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With a dip stub, when you're writing regular (i.e. not Italic) script, keep the nib parallel to the line of writing. This usually requires you to turn the page a bit, and keep your arms in towards your body.

 

_

--------

 

 

Here's a comparison between a stub nib (Hunt x-62) on the left, and a pointed pen (Eagle E840 Modern Writing) on the right. The stub was held parallel to the line of writing.

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by AAAndrew

[corgicoupe]

Andrew,

You should give the previous post a prominent place on TheSteelPen. It was very helpful for understanding the difference between the stubs, and how they differ from the italics.

[Pichak]

I also use Brause Bandzug and feel good to write with it.

 

[Pichak]

AAAndrew,

 

Thank you for your comments.

[AAAndrew]

Thanks to courgicoupe for the suggestion. I just posted this to my site with a little extra. I always have to get a historical reference in. In this case, it's the stormy introduction of the Esterbrook 442 as one more addition to an annus horribilis of a small but well-regarded pen company in Philadelphia at the time: Leon Isaacs & Co.

 

https://thesteelpen.com/steel-pens/stub-pens/

[Pichak]

AAAndrew,

 

Thank you again. The Steel Pen is very interesting web site that full with quality articles. I will spend my whole weekend to read.

[77kath]

Thank you for this information and your Steel Pen! I have idly wondered for some years about falcon nibs but couldn't find a good answer (usually--Oh, buy a Pilot Falcon; that will answer all your questions). Now I know. I have three or four of the nibs (pens), and I like one a lot. Now, back to stubs--

[AAAndrew]

Anyone who's seen both realizes pretty quickly that the Pilot Falcon has nothing to do with the Falcon shaped steel pen.

 

Where the Falcon shape came from is still a subject of some controversy among the half dozen or so people in the world who care. I've personally never seen any evidence for what became known as the Falcon earlier than Esterbrook. There are some shapes which are kind of proto-falcon, like the Albata shape, of which Esterbrook also produced a version, found in earlier British manufacturer's inventories. But no true falcon shape.

 

 

So, Esterbrook may well have made the first pen we have come to know as the Falcon. By 1876, the 048 Falcon was one of Esterbrook's top pens. It had been around long enough that Esterbrook had already come out with a smaller version called the Lady Falcon. Only the #14 Bank pen, one of Esterbrook's earliest styles, came in as many different finishes (Bronze, Gray Amalgam, Copper-Plated, Gold-plated, and Tar-Coated), and the 1879 price list had the Falcon as the signature pen, the picture of which graced the top of the price list. And in 1883 Esterbrook introduced the Mammoth Falcon, a massive version of the standard falcon. Here's an Esterbrook Mammoth Falcon, a standard 048 Falcon, and a version of a Lady's falcon made by Leon Isaacs.

 

 

If anyone has seen a falcon earlier than 1870, I'd love to see the evidence. I'm quite willing to be proved wrong.

[Inky.Fingers]

Oh ma ma! you have nice nibs! That Mammoth is monstrous!

[UDog]

I like the Spencerian Subway Stub No. 39 for general writing. They are available on ebay all the time for about $1 each.