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Café Crème With Gold Nib?

pelikan m200

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26 replies to this topic

#1 Burtini

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:03

Hello all,

 

I'm looking to buy my first Pelikan, and I really like the look of the M200 Café Crème, but I just cant justify the price for a non gold nib.

What i'm wondering is if they ever released any cafe cremes with solid gold nibs and if so how much it would cost me to get my hands on one.

 

Thanks!

 


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#2 dnic

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:06

The cafe creme comes regularly with the gold plated steel nib. But you can swap the nib easy with a M250 or M400 gold nib.  



#3 OCArt

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:30

Pelikan steel nibs are very good, some on this site would say that in the 200/400 size they are better than the gold ones.  Another option would be to pick up a vintage Pelikan 140.  They have very nice gold nibs often with a some flex.  With some study and luck they can be had from a popular auction site for under $75.00. The 140 nib would also fit a 200/400 pen.


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#4 MSH

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 10:28

CFP had them for $359. Even at that price, they flew off the shelf:

 

http://nibs.com/peli...-cafe-creme.htm



#5 inkstainedruth

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 19:06

I had one with a gold plated nib.  I did have to have the nib tweaked by a nibmeister (or meisterin, in this case, since it was by Deb Kinney at DCSS) because it skipped a lot at first, no matter what ink I put in it.  I loved that pen.  I was heartbroken when I lost it in March.  I lucked into an eBay auction earlier this week for a replacement one with the same (B) nib.

Yes, you can swap out a 14K nib (the M400 and M200 pens differ only in the nib for the most part -- they're the same size).  But unless you absolutely *have* to have one (say, you're going to be using a lot of iron gall ink and aren't the best at pen maintenance) I wouldn't worry about getting a 14K nib -- they cost a whole lot of money.  

And yes, be prepared to pay a lot for a Café Crème regardless -- because they've been discontinued by Pelikan and most places are long since sold out of them.  And they weren't exactly inexpensive to start with: list price was, IIRC, $215 US, and most US dealers had them for about $172 last year; I saved money on the first one from getting it on Ebay from Rolf Thiel at missing-pens on one of the European listings, but even he was out of them by then.  Like I said -- I just lucked into the auction.  I hadn't even been looking for a replacement at that point because I was convinced it was a waste of time at this point -- but it got listed as part of the "You might also be interested in..." underneath the search I did for Pelikan pen stands the other night (I have a number of things I routinely search out on the Bay of Evil -- not all of which are even pen-related -- and the small pen stands are amongst them; I keep hoping to find a blue one for not a huge amount of money).

I keep wondering if in a few years Pelikan will re-issue them, the way they did this year with the blue demonstrators.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


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#6 mmg122

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 02:02

Ruth...I'm also a fan of the Pelikan Pen Stands. I currently have the small gold, silver and white and large cobalt blue and white. I'm also looking for the small blue and large green....thus far, unobtainium...at a price I can afford to pay. Sigh.

#7 inkstainedruth

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 14:35

Ruth...I'm also a fan of the Pelikan Pen Stands. I currently have the small gold, silver and white and large cobalt blue and white. I'm also looking for the small blue and large green....thus far, unobtainium...at a price I can afford to pay. Sigh.

 

Yeah, don't I know it.  The last time I was in NYC I went down to Fountain Pen Hospital and a guy working in there told me that the small ones should run about $20 US -- but they didn't have any in stock at the time.

I have one of the small gold ones, with the original box.  I got it at DCSS a couple of years ago.  It's nice, but I'd trade it for a small blue one in a heartbeat.  There's a silver one up on the Bay of Evil at the moment -- seller is in Russia and wants (drumroll please) $249 US for it....   :yikes:  Um, no.  Does no (or "nyet" as the case may be) work for you?  'Cause it sure works for me..... :angry: 

But that being said, doing a standard search for the small stands netted me the replacement Café Crème -- B nib and all.  I was telling some friends about it last night at dinner and one of them said "And it's your pen, right?"  And I actually had to think about it for a second, but then realized, no, the pen I just won has the box and paperwork.  And the one I lost was in a leather pen case (and I'm better the replacement is NOT inked up with diluted Diamine Havusu Turquoise...  :rolleyes:).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#8 Burtini

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 22:03

Thanks for all the replies!

I might just have to wait for a re-issue (if it ever happens  :rolleyes:).


Edited by Burtini, 24 April 2016 - 22:03.

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!


#9 Angel91

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 15:48

As I told Burtini, I own a cafe Creme and a m250 nib that I don't use, in case someone is interested in having the pen with a gold nib. It's too flashy for me!

#10 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 23:59

IMO the 200's nib, a springy 'true' regular flex nib with traditional width is much better than a modern fat, blobby, semi-nail modern two toned 400/600 nib. It gives a much nicer ride.

 

An '80's-97 'true' regular flex mono tone gold nib is as good as the 200 Stainless steel or gold plated nib. Both are traditional width, springy 'true' regular flex nibs.

I have two 90's Celebries, one with a traditional width'ed SS nib and the other with a14 K nib that are completely equal. I have a semi-vintage '90's 400 Tortoise also. There is no difference.

 

I trans-mailed a slew of steel 200's nibs to a pal in England, in there are many fools in Germany who refuse to ship outside of Germany. I have a big handful of vintage 400's also...so don't need a 200. But the 215, which has a brass barrel so balances different has the '200's nib. I bought one of them because I like the 200's nib.

 

The monotone 400-400n-400nn come in semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex...once you are ready for that.

 

The vintage Osmia come with S Steel and 14 K nibs that are completely equal. By being a gold nib snob....I let a lot of great Osmia pens get away. :crybaby: :wallbash:

 

I don't know what the gold plated nibs go for, but the stainless steel go for @$25 and you could get a lot of widths in a fine nib, better than a fat, overly stiff, blobby modern 400/600 nib.

 

The reason they make so poor a modern nib, in the world is full of impatient ain't got three minutes to learn how to hold a fountain pen, Ham Fisted Ball Point Barbarians, gouging the Grand Canyon in desks while holding the pen like a ball point pen.....at near 90 degrees, instead of 45 degrees right after the big index knuckle, 40 degrees at the start of the web of the thumb, or even letting the pen rest in the pit of the thumb at 35 degrees. Held there the nib floats in a small puddle of ink.

Holding it like a ball point can cause skipping problems and wack the nib out of alignment easier because of Jack Hammer Hands.

 

To keep pen repair costs down, they went from the nice springy regular flex. To keep Ball Point Barbarians in the fountain Pen World...they adulterated the product...the nib. making the tip wider, a ball under and over the nib tip....blobby no character, wider than traditional by 1/2  a nib size harder riding stiffer nibs that can not be busted so easy.

 

Outside the 200's nib...gold plated or steel, you have to go semi-vintage for '80's-97 in 'true' regular flex.They have the American Bump Under tipping.

 

The '50's-65 for semi-flex, do not have the American Bump Under tipping, but a flat stubbish tipping that gives you flare with out doing anything for it. The German semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex obliques of that era are the only obliques worth buying in they give you great line variation.

 

Unless you normally cant your nib, due to left eye dominance, buy only semi-flex Obliques.

If you hold your nib normally, I have had couple of nails, and tried 'true' regular flex 200's oblique nibs....they are worthless, for any real line variation. I had hoped for more out of the 200's oblique nib....perhaps the 200's American Bump Under instead of the stubbish '50-60's nibs had something to do with that.

 

If you are going to spend a fortune on a gold nib, then get semi-vintage or vintage and get a real nib. Used is cheaper than new too.  :)  Not the modern post 97 :angry: :gaah: :crybaby: :wallbash: poor excuse of a Barbarian's nib.

 

The 200's springy 'true' regular flex nibs do match the '80-97 semi-vintage nibs....to use while you are gathering up the money to look, for a vintage semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex nib.

 

I don't suggest going for a semi-flex nib until you have four pens...may I suggest an EF &B in nail and M&F in true regular flex.

There are certain shading inks that shade better in true regular flex than in the wetter semi-flex. Paper helps too 90g laser is the minimum for shading outside the 80g Rhoda and a 70 G Japanese paper.

 

I picked up a prejudice against the M nib here. :headsmack:

I can't find the exact blurb I've written before.

MB Toffee on a 90 g laser paper was tested with an F where certain parts of the stroke was lighter, M :yikes: and B nib where certain parts of the stroke were darker. The M was 50-50 :drool:  . That broke my learned here prejudice vs a 'true' regular flex M nib.

 

Yes, you do need true regular flex nibs also; be it the steel/gold plated 200 or the semi-vintage 400.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 30 April 2016 - 00:11.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#11 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 13:32

There have been a large number of thread and posts about gold and steel nibs.

 

It all comes down to how well either are made. A good stainless steel nib is as good as a good gold nib. In any flex.

 

You just have to know what was normal in each era and that manufacturer. Parker started going nail in the '30's, Lamy was 'always' a nail....some poster had of one in regular flex* from the '50's...when the better German names were making semi-flex stubs.

Lamy's Artus sub-brand came in regular flex. I have them in gold and steel. I notice no difference.

 

A nail is a nail, be it gold or steel, and a gold nail does nothing but 'bling', better than a steel nail.

 

If you look around you can find some real, real 'blingy' modern steel nibs too. You can save a lot of ink and paper money by buying a very good modern 'blingy' stainless steel nib. A nail is a nail.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#12 inkstainedruth

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 03:08

Well.  The replacement Café Crème arrived today.  That's the good news (since I wasn't expecting it for another week to week and a half).

The less than good news (I can't really say bad news because I'm not entirely sure it is bad news -- okay, let's say the UNEXPECTED news...) is that it *isn't* a B nib.  It *is* (instead) an italic: the sticker on the box had M crossed out and "IT" written in with a Sharpie; the barcode sticker put on top of that sticker says IM, and, and the blue label inside the box says M -- but the nib *itself* is marked "I"....  :huh: 

So.  Any have experience with both types of nibs for M200s?  Is this a keeper nib?  Is it going to need work (the B nib certainly needed tuning....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


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#13 ScienceChick

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 12:05

Omg, yes it's a keeper (IMO). Italics can be unforgiving in how you hold the pen but if you don't rotate the pen as you write (rotate off the sweet spot), you should be golden. I think you hit the jackpot, nib-wise.

Edit: Re tuning - all of my Pelikans have been good OOB albeit very wet. Just like I like 'em.

Edited by ScienceChick, 01 May 2016 - 12:07.

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#14 grainweevil

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 12:08

Think you might have got a bonus there, Ruth; the italic nib is less common, and thus more sought after. It was offered on the Cognac, but I wasn't aware it was available on the Café Crème; maybe an offer by a retailer, hence the Sharpie'd notation? Assuming it's the same nib, it's a blobby stub rather than a classic italic, in my view. Lots of folks have had theirs sharpened up a little to make the line variation more obvious, although I've left mine alone thus far. Hang on, I did a comparison way back when I got my Cognac... here 'tis:

 

fpn_1399640823__pelikanitalicbroad01.jpg

 

Of course the broad nibs are nice too, but the Italic is something a little more interesting. Take it for a spin and see what you think.



#15 inkstainedruth

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 18:05

Thanks guys.  Admittedly I was a little taken aback.  Especially since it wasn't as advertised (and I said so in the feedback, even when I gave an overall positive rating due to price, the relatively fast ship time, and the free shipping).  It was packed pretty well, too.  But it's a steel nib, not a gold plated one, so it looks a bit odd given the overall warm tones of the pen.  And I can't tell if it's a medium italic or a broad, simply because the packaging says so many *different* things.  I have a sneaking suspicion that the nib was swapped out by the seller.  The marking on the nib just says "I".

OTOH, the guy had apparently been using some sort of dark purple ink in the pen, because that's the color that was flushing out.  So he can't be all bad....  ;) 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#16 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 18:56

Well, Ruth, you did need a gold plated 200's nib for all your 200's as is.... :unsure: you just didn't know it. :P

 

How much more does a gold plated 200's nib cost over the steel one? If you know?

 

I'm going to be getting a new shading ink next week...so I'll try out my 215, again. It's an M and M&F in 'true' regular flex often give better shading than the wetter, B or semi-flex.

 

 

The shading of that 'italic' nib was great. Perhaps it is as said more a CI than a pure Italic or even Stub.

Do let us know.

 

With a slew of semi-flex and in oblique too....normally....normally I'd not need that nib.... ;)


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#17 inkstainedruth

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 19:18

Well, Ruth, you did need a gold plated 200's nib for all your 200's as is.... :unsure: you just didn't know it. :P

 

How much more does a gold plated 200's nib cost over the steel one? If you know?

 

I'm going to be getting a new shading ink next week...so I'll try out my 215, again. It's an M and M&F in 'true' regular flex often give better shading than the wetter, B or semi-flex.

 

 

The shading of that 'italic' nib was great. Perhaps it is as said more a CI than a pure Italic or even Stub.

Do let us know.

 

With a slew of semi-flex and in oblique too....normally....normally I'd not need that nib.... ;)

 

:lol:

I did a quick Google search for Pelikan nibs for M200s.  Jet pens had a B for about $43 US, but also had a discount coupon for first-time customers.  So it's something to think about -- I just don't know what the shipping will be like.  And it may turn out that I really do like the italic nib better (it was just that I mostly have F nibs, so I went with the B initially just to have something a bit different -- and once the skipping problems got fixed it was a really nice nib).  

As for the nib I have on the replacement pen, I haven't had a chance to try it yet.  I got home about 8:30 last night, and got the pen flushed out about midnight (along with the Dark Lilac Safari that also came yesterday).  So I don't know if it's dry enough to ink up yet.  Trying to decide what a good ink would be.  I might see if I have enough of the sample of Edelstein Topaz left (I had been trying to compare that ink with Diamine Havusu Turquoise, which had been in the pen I lost).  Or I might do something completely different, since I got a bunch of samples in the mail as well.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#18 grainweevil

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 19:30

Hmm, if it's not gold plated then you're likely looking at a different kettle of poisson; It may be much more italic than stub after all. Ink her up and let us see! It occurs to me that, should you not like it, you could probably do a trade with someone rather than buy a whole new nib.



#19 ScienceChick

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 20:09

IIRC, JetPens has free shipping with $25+ purchase.

 photo 9a3c4b09-5684-4070-874c-d3e7313947e7.pngLife is too short to use crappy pens.  -carlos.q


#20 jrusting

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 15:23

When I got the M201 Neptune Blue and Mars Red from Fahreny's, the italic nib was an extra cost option.  They billed it as a "medium" but it is really over 1mm and quite a wet writer.  I picked up a gold plated broad from Missing-pen.de at a reasonable cost so that I could swap when desired; the service was cordial and prompt,

 

If you don;t like the italic nib, I am pretty sure there is someone here who will be happy to take it off your hands; I would think it might back a nice basis for a custom nib. 

 

YMMV.







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