Too Much Choice...

[InkingBishop]

I bought a Lamy Safari to see if I could get on with a fountain pen. I'm really enjoying writing with it, take it everywhere with me, and use it every day.

 

Of course, I'm already spending hours every day looking for the next pen, because that's my nature (my curse). I acquire things.

 

In the world of pens though, there really is just so much choice out there, it's exhausting.

 

I'm looking at everything from a kaweco sport, which looks really cool, but doesn't seem like much of a step up from what I have, to a pelikan M205, which conversely might be too much of a step up (but looks awesome).

 

I like interesting designs. Piston fillers appeal, but not to the exclusion of everything else. I'd already have bought a TWSBI 580 were it not for the stuff about cracking - by the way, does this apply to the AL model as well, or does the Aluminium section prevent it? I also like retro and classic looking pens.

 

Is there something (or one or two somethings) which really jump out as a "must try" second pen in that range between the sport and the m205?

 

Should I just pack it in, and stick with my Lamy for now? Maybe buy a converter for it and play with some inks instead?

 

Cheers

 

Bishop.

Edited April 22, 2016 by InkingBishop

[inkstainedruth]

Hah! You think that you'll have better luck narrowing down an ink (or even just a few inks) to use? You obviously haven't looked at the pinned Index to the Ink Review Forum....

Don't expect sympathy here -- we're all happy enablers. And just wait till you discover vintage pens: then you'll be completely doomed.

Speaking of which, there are a lot of nice vintage and semi-vintage pens which would probably be in your price range as a bridge between a Safari and an M205 (and I say that as someone whose most expensive pens are Pelikans, including a vintage 400).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Bo Bo Olson]

You have been infected...even have to pay taxes if you buy new. Be a tax dodger, buy Vintage....semi-vintage....nothing modern even if used....the old pens are that much better. '57 Chevy vs a Honda Civic.

 

First....DO NOT join the Pen of the Week in the Mail Club.

Second, Do not join the Pen of the Month Club either.

Pen of the Quarter gets you a much better pen, and enough time to understand them.

The GREED of love at sight....gets you a lot of second tier pens, when you could have had better vintage first tier pens for what you on lots, and lots and lots of pens.

Sigh....advise is don't do as I did....think about what I tell ya. Just starting out I thought 5-8 pens would be more than enough....like thinking 6 inks is enough.

So I said, all I can afford is $20....week after week, I waited on the mail man....week after week, $20 out the window. For $100 well that was way back when when pens were cheap...7 years ago.

For $100 I could have had some real nice pens.

I think most of us have got to break borders. Breaking the $25---then $30....border. $40...and 50.

Then came that $70 dollar pen that was really great.....99 was my limit for ages.

Now I'm into one pen, or two at a live auction a couple of times a year.

 

Actually only having 70 pens is only buying just 10 a year. ...and I do have 8 I don't need....and sigh, could sell a few pretty second tier ones.

You need 6-9 pens actually....that's all.

As soon as you get your Estie....go to pen of the Quarter club......

 

Go to Richard Binder's site. It is the bible of fountain pens; nibs, filling systems, good advice on inks and many vintage pens to look at.

 

You need a nail EF, a Nail B is not too bad....and costs @$7.00 for a nib of either size for a Safari. Then you need a semi-vintage or vintage 'True' Regular flex nib in M and F. M is so maligned here .

 

Those last two nibs are real good for shading inks. You need the interesting two toned shading inks....do not listen to the 'noobie' wishy-washy, pastel description. That is what those folks using supersaturated vivid; boring inks say. As soon as you are not 'noobie' shading inks will make since to you, when you have some nice nibs.

 

Don't waste money on a modern semi-nail pen, when you can get much better pens...that are Vintage....ie old and used. Buy here on the com...You can get one time top of the line for what a medium cheap modern pen costs.

Semi-flex is not to be thought about until you have those 4 pens.

 

What you need next is an Esterbrook JD lever filler....1940-1960. Very pretty, built like a tank...and if it has a new sac should last another 20 or more years before you need to put in a new sac. Don't worry about it, by then you will know how.

5-7 years ago, an Estie went for $15-20 and every one told every 'noobie' buy an Estie....so they did. Every one of them!

 

And like all Esterbrook owners became addicted. There are 8 greys, two reds, two coppers, 5-6 greens and the same in blue....and the common black or white...and a few other real rare ones that one absolutely needs. Well...two or six would do. Oh, of course you need a Tootsie Roll .

 

Sigh, . I sold 10-12 Esties.... Back when they were cheap! I had grown out of them.

I only have two, a Copper and a real nice blue one. I'd think about one of the two reds...that I really liked. Sigh.

 

The screw in Osmiroid Italic calligraphy nibs fit this pen perfectly. There is a set from EF to BBB that could be found in English Ebay.

 

The great part is you can buy screw out nibs for the Esties, some some 15 or so, of this and that width and a couple are semi-flex!!!...some the 9xxx with 'iridium' tipping...got to pay more for them. The 2xxx rolled steel tips are good!

It takes 1 1/2 years of using it every day, all day to wear it out. The old first model steel rolled tip the 1xxx takes much less time.

 

However you will not be writing with that 1xxx nib enough to really worry about. You are just going to get a few 1xxx nibs for your collection... .ok.

You will want more of the 2xxx and a few 9xxx and if you get real lucky and got a few bucks later there are the rare 3xxx and the 8xxx.

 

Did I mention Esties come in three sizes...Standard...the DJ, thinner and smaller and thinner...the SJ&LJ.....

 

Sigh, the price of Esties have jumped from $15-20 to ....I'm out of date I'm sure....$30-40...or more. Some of the rare ones can go for a fortune.

Well, you can join the Estie of the Month Club. ...that's forgivable.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[ac12]

Welcome to the slippery slope.

I personally inhabit that sub $100 area. There are a bunch of nice Japanese pens in the sub $100 range. And you can even find some of the Pelikan M20X pens for about $90.

If you are hesitant on the TWSBI 580, try the lower cost Eco. I like mine. The only downside is you can spend too much time watching the ink slosh around in the pen.

With the Lamys, except for the 2000, they all pretty much write the same, as they have the same nib, and similar feeds. My favorite are the 'joy' and 'cp1.'

 

But as Ruth said, I target mainly older pens, as that is where my interest seems to be. And there are quite a bit of older pens in the sub $100 range; Parker (45, 51, Classic, Arrow, etc.), Esterbrook J series, Sheaffer 440/330, etc.

 

The problem is, as you found out, there are so many directions you can do that your head will spin.

One method is to pick color, 'I want a BLUE pen.'

Or only piston pens.

Or ...

Edited April 22, 2016 by ac12

[Uncial]

I wish I'd taken bigger steps up. Not that I bought bad pens, but now I've been spoiled by really good pens and some of the lower tier I used to like have dramatically lost their appeal. You're better doing your research, trying to get an opportunity to test out a few pens in the flesh and figure out what it is you really like and what you might want. For the price of three middling pens over the course of a year or two you could save up and buy one really great pen that will please you no end. For me that is the better path I wish I'd followed. Vintage pens can be a real delight but beware of the claims of eBay sellers; even seemingly great sellers can make astonishing claims about condition and nibs and after a couple of complete duds it can be tempting to give up entirely. If vintage appeals learn how to tinker with pens a bit. I may have been very unlucky but I have yet to own a vintage pen that hasn't required some kind of tinkering at some point.

 

One last thing: some people say all that matters is the nib. I completely disagree with this. For me it's the nib combined with the colour, the shape and design, the finish and the balance. There are a lot of things to consider in terms of what makes a pen a good fit. There is a lot to choose from, but don't be daunted; this is a good thing, not a bad thing

[DrDebG]

Welcome! This is the place to find out about fountain pens before you just buy one.

 

I would suggest that you start with buying a converter. I would then suggest that you look at websites like Goulet Pens or Vanness Pens and buy a selection (6 or 7) of ink samples in colors that you like. You might also wish to vary the brands since some brands have different properties than others. I would also suggest that you get a sampler of "papers" - from Tomoe River to Rhodia/Clairfontaine to Apica. Using the one pen that you know well - your Safari - try out the inks on the different papers . Remember the "triangle" - pen, paper and ink. The right combination makes all the difference.

 

I have two Lamys - a Safari and an Al-Star. The Safari is a fine point. It likes most inks except Pilot Iroshizuku inks. No matter how much I have tried them, this pen just does not write smoothly with them. The Al-Star, also a fine point, has no problem with most inks, but will behave poorly when I have used Noodler's Eel inks in it.. I prefer the way they perform on Tomoe River paper best. Rhodia/Clairfontaine paper is very nice, but I like the properties of the ink better on TR papers.

[Arkanabar]

Bo Bo Olson's advice is very good ... IF you know exactly what you like in a pen.

Doing it over again, I might not have bought my M400, but gone for an M600 instead. I didn't learn how much I like a slightly larger pen until Nathan Tardif made the Konrad available at only $20. And I likely would have skipped out on the Vanishing Point.

The VP and M400 are in what Bo Bo calls Pen of the Quarter range. Cheap pens are a pretty good way to find out your preferences in weight, girth, length, balance, etc, especially if you can't find a pen posse, pen show, or really good bricks-and-mortar pen shop. I wish I'd had really cheap pens to prove to myself that things like the Safari grip, and pens over a certain weight, or the girth of the Ahab, are not for me. It took me more than a month with a Hero 616 to demonstrate that I have no desire to buy any Parker "51"s.

You are an individual. The pens you need are the ones that appeal to you. You're most likely to find out what they are by experimenting. That goes for Esties too. I have a nice copper J and it sort of underwhelms me. Bo Bo can gawp in shock that somebody could have an Estie and not be an addict, but it can happen.

So the first step is to find out what you like. I recommend that you look over the pens and/or pencils that you've liked most so far. See if you can figure out what it is about each that you liked and/or disliked. It's not just the nib. I very much prefer a section about 10-11mm in diameter, with a definite step or stop at the end, rather than the sleek designs of the "51", or Sheaffer's lovely inlaid nibs, or their conical Triumph nibs. I want a plastic section, not metal. I like light weight. I'm pretty much content with short length as long as the balance is ok and it reaches the web between thumb and index finger, because shorter pens are easier to fit into a breast pocket.

 

But I've been talking about what *I* like. What you need to do is find out what you like. Buy slowly, by all means, and explore each purchase fully to learn the advantages and disadvantages of each, and which are important to you. But there's no need to spend a lot of money until you know what you like.

[Runnin_Ute]

Another thing you can do is something I have had some success with. Be patient first off. That Pelikan you have your eye on? You can find previously owned ones for a fraction of what they sell for new. I just got a M150 for the equivalent of about $50 USD from a UK seller. (plus shipping) So Pelikan can be had for under $100. Sometimes in almost new condition.

 

The most i have spent new or used on any pen is $100. And that includes the M200 Cognac I bought new last November. (Amazon - Japanese seller) What the same or similar are going for today, I don't know.

[oregano]

I hear you--quit while you're ahead (only half joking). No, but seriously, I don't recommend taking a huge leap up as others have said. At least for me I wish I had started with something more humble and a workhorse. I would try the Pilot Custom 74 or Pilot custom 92 as a step up, or 3776 Platinum Century. They are both in the $150-160 range, with a gold nib, so it's a big step up, but not twice the price.

[IrishEyes]

I love my Lamy Al Stars (the aluminum version of the Safari)--they are some of my very favorite pens to write with, especially the EF nibs. You've got a good pen, there. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better one in the sub-$50 range, but that's just one woman's opinion. I have 3, now, and a whole bunch of their interchangeable nibs (ef, f, broad, 1.1 italic, 1.9 italic, etc.). I have pens that I've paid up to about $350 for (my beloved Yard-O-Led), but those Lamys are usually my modern go-to pens for daily writing. Those, and my vintage Esterbrooks, Sheaffers, and Watermans pens, because I love their gold nibs--I tend to purchase the more flexible nibs when I can, and the newer pens just don't seem to provide those, for the most part. All of them give good value for the money, imho :-).

[Bo Bo Olson]

Sigh, Arkanbar....what Estie nibs have you tried? There are many nibs in different widths and from manifold to the rare semi-flex. 'True' regular flex would be easy to get there.

 

Actually I've not 'pushed' an Estie for a 'noobie', since the price jump from $15 to $30.....and I don't even go over to the Esterbrook subsection.

 

The Estie is a light and nimble pen....and like a P-51 one just 'has' to have one....some day. If so pick a pretty one.

 

As mentioned some folks like a medium large over a Standard pen. Others start with a Large pen, and don't post so think Standard (Eastie) or Medium Large (P-51) are too small.

The Safari is a Large pen....

Some folks like a thick pen, others standard and some thin....there are many choices to be had.

 

The more you read and study before buying, the greater the possibility of getting a long term pen.

If you buy on our market sub section, you pay a bit more than a bargain on Ebay, but you have someone who you can complain to ... in they value their good name here.

 

The hunt is fun....trout fishing with a fly is fun.....throwing a lure in a commercial trout pond is no fun. The more time you take with your hunt the better pen you will get.

 

There is a cheap Japanese pen, the Metropolitan I think it's called, a very good starter pen. Living in Germany, I tend to chase old used German pens instead of Japanese pens.

 

I do still recommend an Estie. (If I didn't have two pen cups full of pens...I might have gone out and inked one......................I have a problem....when I go to the two Ink sub sections....I get the urge to ink with one of my 50 inks.

 

That's not many inks, not even the essential 100 mainland Europe inks, much less the English, Japanese or Noodler inks.) the advice of getting samples and sample papers is great.

 

When you go to Ink Reviews, always look at our Ink Guru Sandy1's reviews. :notworthy1:

She uses 4-5 normal pens of basic widths, on 4-5 good but obtainable papers. There are many times when even I can't believe it's the same ink.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink, and in that order.

 

Take your time, remember LA was not built in a Day!

Edited April 23, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[Arkanabar]

Bo Bo, my point was not that you are wrong to love your Esties. It was to suggest that your love of Esties is not universal, and that there's nothing wrong with the people who do not share it, and also to let the OP know that it is possible he's among those who do not share it.

 

Sure, it's possible that once he experiences an Estie, he'll become the World's Biggest Estie Lover, but he might do well to visit the Pay It Forward subforum and sign up for the Estie and TWSBI loaner pens before putting money into them.

 

The Metro and Safari are both no doubt very good pens, or they wouldn't have so many fans.

 

I am a fan of neither. They both have narrow sections, and the facets on the Safari make it more narrow yet. I do not like for my index finger to contact my thumb while writing. And I could have saved myself buying a couple Safaris had I had a plastic Jinhao 599 to teach me this, one reason I often suggest to people that super cheap pens can be a great way to find out what does and doesn't work for them.

 

Thus, I always like to recommend the Platinum Plaisir as a starter/workhorse. Admittedly, the nib choices are limited (Platinum's 0.3mm and 0.5mm Preppy nibs). But unlike the Safari, it has a round nib cross section, around 10mm in diameter. Unlike the Metro, it has no step between its plastic section and its metal barrel (aluminum, making it lighter than the brass Metro in addition to having quite a bit bigger section). And like the Preppy, it's a pen you can reasonably expect to write on the first stroke, even if you've been neglecting it for months.

 

And there was a thread that basically invited people to complain about pens a while back; both the Safari and the Metro had their share of detractors; the sole complaint about the Plaisir was that it was boring.

 

eta: I actually like the nib on my Estie, a 9460 (I think) Medium Manifold. It's very smooth, and writes as fine as my beloved F M200. What causes me to leave it aside is that I don't like the section (narrow), and that I can't put in in a pocket without worrying I'll snag the lever unless I tape said lever down.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Arkanabar

[Buzz_130]

Welcome to a diverse world of pens, inks, and opinions! You are opening up a line of questions that generated an entire universe of forum posts called FPN! We all started somewhere at the beginning and have moved on to personal preferences as writing is a deeply personal matter.

 

Like you, I started with Lamy Safari as my first real fountain pen. I love it (and use it today as one of my test pens for the more maintenance heavy inks). But I was ready to try other pens, and I wandered through the realm of expensive pens quickly. And then I finally found what I liked, fit my hand, and wrote the way I wanted.

 

If I were to start over again today and stuck with modern pens, I would only buy Japanese pens. I love my Nakaya, my Platinums, and my Sailors. They are excellent examples of modern craftsmanship and a devotion to fine writing.

 

But I would likely start over again with only vintage pens. Esterbrook J series - absolutely! I use these pens for everything: iron gall, high dye load, different nibs, and practice repairs. They are reliable pens that just work. You can create a lifetime of collecting just these pens. My passion is the "51" (although I dabble in all old Parkers), and I find that you can get a nice collection going within your budget of $100. You just need patience to make it happen. The Parker "51" is perfect in my hands, is an amazing writer, and just works for me.

 

When it comes to inks, I also recommend buying samples. I have several bottles of ink that I don't have much desire to use (Noodler's General of the Armies has been my biggest disappointment). I wish I had tried a sample or two of some inks that I had interest in before committing to a bottle. It's a fun journey figuring out your ink, but take your time.

 

Buzz

[inkstainedruth]

What Arkanabar says is true. I tried a Safari early on, didn't think I could get used to the grip, and moved on. And then a little over a year ago, someone sent me a Jinhao 599 and I thought, "well, okay, I guess I can give it a try...." and now I'm impatiently waiting for the new Dark Lilac Safaris to make it Stateside so I can get one....

What Buzz said about getting samples is also true -- you can save a whole pile of money on inks you don't like (for whatever reason -- color, dry times, pen clogging, you name it).

You'll have to figure out what works for *you*. I like my Pilot Metropolitan -- it's a very nice pen for the money. But some people don't like the step-down to the section. I love love love my Parker 51s -- but some people don't like hooded nibs, or have gotten ones with bad nibs. A friend of mine had me try his MB 146 a few years ago -- he was absolutely convinced I'd be swooning over it -- only not so much....

The great thing is that there is something out there for everyone. You may decide you only like one ink for everything. You may decide you need to have every size and color of Vacumatic that was ever made. You may find your grail pen early on -- or spend a lifetime saving up for it. You might hate lever fill pens -- and love c/c pens. And that's okay. There's a whole world of pens, inks, paper, etc. out there.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Bo Bo Olson]

Anakanbar, I grew up with lever pens.....sigh Wearever or Venus......Eastie was more expensive. So I didn't get an nice beautiful Estie at all. Until the ugly solid color, metal topped ones of the '60's. If I'd had one of the beautiful Esties...could be it would not have been stolen like every fountain pen I ever owned in grade school up to High School.

That was so long ago it was classy to have your name engraved in your fountain pen......Wearevers of course excluded.

 

I never worried about the lever catching, still don't. I can never remember that happening....nor I notice it happening to others.

That it can happen...yes. A Pelikan can twist open...happened to me.

 

I don't care for manifold or nail nibs, only having the minimum. An EF nail is good for editing. A F or M nail for sitting in the pen box. I do on occasion use a B nail.

 

I have no problem with a P-51 or the Snorkel I lusted after as a child....only got one of each...some have every color.....did take me 55 years to get that Snorkel but 40 them I was out of fountain pens.

I was very picky with exactly what Snorkel I was going to get some day....then a maxi-semi-flex BB factory stub crossed my path, and I grabbed the nib and a plain Burgundy pen.

Both posted are very well balanced pens.

 

 

I over the time chased the nibs I didn't have in width and flex....there being some 45 or so one can have.

Others want all 51 colors of a P-51.

[AAAndrew]

I don't think anyone should buy any Esties ever again. Let the prices crash. Then I can afford to buy them all up for the sake of humanity. I'm just that kind of compassionate guy.

 

What all of these words are actually saying is, the reason there is so much variety of pens is that people like different things in a pen. My recommendation is to get yourself to a pen show. There you will see and get to hold more kinds of pens than anywhere else, both vintage and new. Second best is a pen shop, but you won't have the option of vintages.

 

Or you can do what most of us did, buy too many until we found out what we like, the thin the heard.

 

If you can get to a show, it's still good advice to get a couple of nice pens rather then lots of cheap ones. But that also is arguable by some.

Edited April 24, 2016 by AAAndrew

[Maurizio]

Inkingbishop - it's fun to consider the spectrum a pens and all their various quirks and ramifications. A pen show is a good idea also.

 

I write to recommend that you look up reviews and comments here about the Pilot Custom 823. This pen is an all-around excellent pen: Classic design, modern piston filler, exceptional nib.

 

Enjoy.

[inkstainedruth]

I don't think anyone should buy any Esties ever again. Let the prices crash. Then I can afford to buy them all up for the sake of humanity. I'm just that kind of compassionate guy.

 

 

Actually, the comments about pen shows are spot on (unfortunately, a lot of places don't have the luxury of real pen shops) -- but do NOT do what I did: have your first show be DCSS.

Talk about brain freeze from the choices available....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[The Phoenix 924]

Everyone thus far has given great advice. Definitely be patient (which is extremely difficult, I know). I've done both vintage and modern, like most everyone. I've got a Sheaffer Craftsman that I swear writes as well as my brand new Caran d'Ache Varius China Black. I think I paid $50 for the former. While you can find them for less (thank the Lord), Caran d'Ache charges $1,500 for the Varius. So clearly there's deals to be had. And if you hate it, you can sell it to someone else for what you paid for it and move on to something else. My 1920s Duofold writes like a charm whilst the one I bought new needs sent in for tweaking.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't let your inclination to just start buying shiny things (I say this knowing I have this problem to an extreme degree) without first approaching the "problem" from several angles. Just getting started, buying used makes a lot of sense. Of course, there's nothing quite like being the "first" one to suck up ink into your brand new pen. Starting over again, I'd definitely have purchased a few interesting used pens before buying my first new one; it would have given me a better idea of what I liked for a whole lot less money.

 

Best of luck to you in your search!

[InkingBishop]

Thanks for the advice all. Lots of food for thought.

 

A few hours have been racked up on eBay based on suggestions here.

 

Fortunately though, it can take me a really long time to make decisions.

 

In the meanwhile, I have a converter and some diamine inks inbound.

 

Cheers.