What Is This Clear 149?

[clear149]

I just bought this awesome 149 from south korea. the seller could not tell me much due to the language barrier. it does not appear to be a demonstrator and Brad Torelli denies making it. can anyone help?

Edited April 20, 2016 by clear149

[zaddick]

Politely put, it is an homage pen. People try to pass them as escapees from the factory like some of the older 149s you have seen pictures of here. But these are just fantasy pens. Yours may or may not have used authentic MB internal parts, but the pen is not an MB nor are they done by a known pen craftsman like Brad Torelli.

 

I see them on eBay once in a while. Sometimes they go for a lot and sometimes not. One had a nice 75th anniversary nib in it and another had no nib at all. It may be a nice pen, but it is not particularly valuable.

 

I have no intention of offending you. If you like the pen and it feels good to use, I hope you enjoy it. But if you paid several thousand dollars thinking it was one of the handful of demos made for testing at the MB factory, it is not.

Edited April 20, 2016 by zaddick

[zaddick]

By the way, all the recent ones I have seen have apparently come from South Korea according to the various sellers.

[penparadise]

Hmm, I'm a little bit suspect about the piston as well, but I used to have a similar 149 which originally came out of the climate-testing laboratory of the Montblanc factory in Hamburg.

 

If this (and others) were made in South Korea it will not be long that faked Montblanc piston filler pens come to the market — or what do you think, Zaddick and others?

[CS388]

 

If this (and others) were made in South Korea it will not be long that faked Montblanc piston filler pens come to the market — or what do you think, Zaddick and others?

 

Yes, I'd think so. If the model pictured (above) had been made in black 'plastic (instead of clear) there's your countefeit 149.

 

Tough times ahead.

 

Whilst I appreciate the opinion of the experts, I can't see the obvious give-aways, which point to this being a 'fantasy pen', rather than a true demonstrator. Could you elaborate, please?

 

Thanks.

[jar]

There is little reason to think that fake piston fillers are not reasonable, and in fact the amazing part is that they aren't common.

 

Remember a fake fountain pen does not need to work longer than the PayPal complaint deadline.

[ASL]

If this is a Korean replica, then I am positive with such progress, we will see the 149 Piston Filler Replicas in the market soon ..

First dozens will be sold at high price, then Chinese will take it over from Korean and go for mass production, poor quality & Cheap prices at Alibaba.com ..

[zaddick]

 

Whilst I appreciate the opinion of the experts, I can't see the obvious give-aways, which point to this being a 'fantasy pen', rather than a true demonstrator. Could you elaborate, please?

 

Thanks.

 

Some things that make me suspicious about this one:

 

- the piston seal (whatever the round part that touches the ink is properly called) itself does not look like a production MB piston, at least not those used before 2014. They tend to be white and look kind of like a top hat

- the rings in the cap are independent. The production MB rings are all linked together with latice work that is hidden in a black cap. In a clear cap I should be able to see the vertical metal that links the three rings together

- The cap top (derby with the star) screw on looks to be based on the older simpler style of cap top, but the section does not have the lip I would expect to see on older pens. Older 149s have a pronounced lip at the end of the section right before the nib/feed

- no pink sealant in the section. Not in itself an issue, but it came from the factory with what looks like bubble gum or pepto in the section. Remember these were made for testing not to look pretty. It would have to have been removed and replaced with some other sealing substance.

- I dont see the brass piston threads I would expect for genuine MB parts. I guess I was not paying much attention before when looking at the pictures. The whole piston is wrong.

- in this case I cannot see the piston spindle, but they have a specifc look and that could be another tell

- I cannot see the feed here, but that could be another tell if it is not an MB feed that would match the period of the pen.

 

Take a look at this thread from a member here who has bought several known MB factory demo pens. You can see right away the differences. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/149785-149-demonstrator-pictures/

 

Hope that helps.

Edited April 22, 2016 by zaddick

[ASL]

 

Some things that make me suspicious about this one:

 

- the piston seal (whatever the round part that touches the ink is properly called) itself does not look like a production MB piston, at least not those used before 2014. They tend to be white and look kind of like a top hat

- the rings in the cap are independent. The production MB rings are all linked together with latice work that is hidden in a black cap. In a clear cap I should be able to see the vertical metal that links the three rings together

- The cap top (derby with the star) screw on looks to be based on the older simpler style of cap top, but the section does not have the lip I would expect to see on older pens. Older 149s have a pronounced lip at the end of the section right before the nib/feed

- no pink sealant in the section. Not in itself an issue, but it came from the factory with what looks like bubble gum or pepto in the section. Remember these were made for testing not to look pretty. It would have to have been removed and replaced with some other sealing substance.

- I dont see the brass piston threads I would expect for genuine MB parts. I guess I was not paying much attention before when looking at the pictures. The whole piston is wrong.

- in this case I cannot see the piston spindle, but they have a specifc look and that could be another tell

- I cannot see the feed here, but that could be another tell if it is not an MB feed that would match the period of the pen.

 

Take a look at this thread from a member here who has bought several known MB factory demo pens. You can see right away the differences. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/149785-149-demonstrator-pictures/

 

Hope that helps.

 

Zaddick, This is really very helpful man, many thanks ..

To support your comments visually, I have taken the liberty and copied two photos from the above Korean 149 and inserted them next to a demonstrator photo .. differences are clear, really clear.

Thanks

Amr

[alexwong001]

As CS388 mentioned, it will be significantly harder to tell when the whole thing is made of black plastic. I doubt it that hard for these counterfeiter to change the color of the piston mechanism to white, to give it a more authentic "look". Second hand market will indeed see turbulence ahead. Sigh...

[clear149]

It is actually a better quality than my genuine 149s. I have a few from the 50's to new. The piston is not Montblanc and the plunger is not hat shaped, but is a flat clear piece of plastic. It is actually smoother and works better than Montblancs. The bands are sterling, and mine had a decent amount of tarnish that had to be a few years old. The cap has the vertical lines which means it was injection molded. If this were black you could not tell it was fake unless you took it apart. If it had an original Montblanc mechanism the only way you could tell it apart was that it was made better. All the threads seal great. With no bubble gum. I paid $335 (don't be jealous). I knew it was not a demonstrator. I knew it was a custom "fantasy pen". Custom pens like these made by artists like Brad Torelli sell for thousands. I think there will be counterfeit limited edition and rarer more expensive pens coming from asia very soon. It is a great pen that I use daily.

[zaddick]

I am glad you are enjoying the pen so much and find it a great value. It is impressive how you learned so much about your pen in 5 days. Research can certainly pay off.

[clear149]

Yes! Google is great. Brad Torelli helped out a lot. He is a really nice guy and knows a lot about pens. The plastic, or should I say precious resin is much harder than Montblancs and the tolerances are much tighter. The cap band is hand engraved sterling silver. I can tell by the slight mistake in the T the rest looks almost identical. This was made by an artist, probably a south Korean one, but it took a lot of skill and time. The flat piece of plastic that is the piston fits and seals perfect. The piston is super smooth with no play. I was wondering if anyone had any more information or insight.

[clear149]

The more I look at this pen the more disappointed I am in the quality of my genuine 149s

[zaddick]

The more I look at this pen the more disappointed I am in the quality of my genuine 149s

 

The ones from the 1980s seemed to take a dip in quallity with thin gold plating and multi piece barrels. I think they chave come back a bit since then, but the best were the celluloid 149s, followed by the early resin 149s from the 1960s. I like the nibs on those pens, and I prefere the feel and heft of the celluloid pens over the lighter resin pens. Those are my opinions anyhow.

 

But, I will say I still like the 149 over most other pens, especially buying one used.

[clear149]

I agree, but I feel bad using my celluloid 149 as a daily writer. It is the only pen I will keep that I wont write with regularly. My 80s 149 with the two piece barrel keeps falling apart and leaking. Even the edges of the clip are not exactly symmetrical and are rough. I love the size of the 149 but for quality and simplicity of design I have to say I love my 84.

[ink-syringe]

I actually live in Korea and can't find where you got this from. Any hints? I have never seen one of those here and I have some pen sources and dealers I know. If anyone has a hint and can say or can backchannel it to me let me know. I am oddly curious to see one in the flesh.

[zaddick]

There is another one on ebay now.

[Cordovian]

There is another one on ebay now.

He also sold an M800 tribute in ebony wood. It's lacking some details and he did not show the nib but it would be pretty convincing to someone new to Pelikans if he represented it as genuine.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ECUAAOSwxcRW9ojc/s-l1600.jpg

 

I imagine that the piston filler counterfeits are already hitting the secondary market. They're probably weathering them and selling them as used to help avoid detection.

[ink-syringe]

Not seeing it. Is there any key word from the listing i can search under?