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Ebay & Amazon Prices Going Down On Some Pilot And Platinum Models


DustyR

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Precisely correct. While the postage to and from Japan certainly takes a long time, every single Japanese retailer that operates in the US or Canada has honoured their factory warranty directly through them for Sailor, Platinum and Pilot pens, in my personal experience :)

 

Actually many Japanese retailers will ship via EMS Express, which is similar to express air mail but in my experience surprisingly fast. EMS is inexpensive too. All EMS Express shipments are by air and include tracking. Once the package is inside your country, the local delivery is handed off to your postal carrier, but tracking continues to work. I see reports that EMS from Japan to the U.S. runs around five days to one week. I currently live in S.E. Asia. EMS to my country takes two or three days by air from Japan. I've had a couple of shipments that arrived next day. So if you're going to use a Japanese retailer, try to find one that ships via EMS.

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Actually many Japanese retailers will ship via EMS Express, which is similar to express air mail but in my experience surprisingly fast. EMS is inexpensive too. All EMS Express shipments are by air and include tracking. Once the package is inside your country, the local delivery is handed off to your postal carrier, but tracking continues to work. I see reports that EMS from Japan to the U.S. runs around five days to one week. I currently live in S.E. Asia. EMS to my country takes two or three days by air from Japan. I've had a couple of shipments that arrived next day. So if you're going to use a Japanese retailer, try to find one that ships via EMS.

 

Great point. I shall watch out for that the next time. Fortunately, many now are even fulfilled by Amazon, so it gets to me within days. Even the Japanese retailers that do not use EMS and use Japanese Air Mail usually arrive in Canada (which has abysmal postal service btw) within 2 weeks max :)

 

So, in conclusion, I still do not see the merits of buying something that has a 100% premium from a North American pen and stationery retailer.

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I buy a lot of my Japanese pens from Engeika Finest Shop,I am always pleased with their service and the quality of their pens I

have never had a bad purchase from them and their prices have

always been what I would consider lower than others,

They stock Sailor, Pilot Namiki, Platinum, Kuretake, Wancher,

Edited by oneill
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There is still a price difference, no question. But the good news is that the difference is smaller than it was.

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Nice try Anderson Pens. But it's too late. The predatory practices of Luxury Brands has already driven me into the arms of Japanese retailers, who in my experience do stand by the factory warranty.

 

Now is talk like that really necessary? If I could reduce the price further, of course I would. Of course pricing is cheaper getting straight from Japan, why wouldn't it be? There's no shipping to the US, there's no overhead costs. It's not like any of us at this end of the distribution channel are getting rich selling these pens. I'm not buying them for $35 each. And to call Luxury Brands pricing policy predatory just seems ridiculous. This is a common problem with ALL Japanese products. some people are more comfortable buying from a US retailer. And I never said a Japanese or non-US company wouldn't stand by the warranty. If you buy from a non-US dealer, then you just have to go straight back to them, which may not be as convenient as sending it somewhere in the US, that's all.

www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.
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Now is talk like that really necessary? If I could reduce the price further, of course I would. Of course pricing is cheaper getting straight from Japan, why wouldn't it be? There's no shipping to the US, there's no overhead costs. It's not like any of us at this end of the distribution channel are getting rich selling these pens. I'm not buying them for $35 each. And to call Luxury Brands pricing policy predatory just seems ridiculous. This is a common problem with ALL Japanese products. some people are more comfortable buying from a US retailer. And I never said a Japanese or non-US company wouldn't stand by the warranty. If you buy from a non-US dealer, then you just have to go straight back to them, which may not be as convenient as sending it somewhere in the US, that's all.

 

 

 

Nice try Anderson Pens. But it's too late. The predatory practices of Luxury Brands has already driven me into the arms of Japanese retailers, who in my experience do stand by the factory warranty.

 

I have to agree with Brian: US retailers aren't making a lot of money on these pens, and it's not their fault that there is an official reseller. This

was a problem for years with some Japanese cameras. Importers like Mamiya USA were the only legal conduit for some Japanese (or worldwide minus US) products, and took a hefty cut for really nothing (service could have been provided by Mamiya Japan). You can blame Luxury Brands, but it's not the fault of US-based retailers.

 

Brian is also correct about the convenience and shipping factors, IMO. I ordered a Sailor Procolor last year (a model that wasn't available from anyone in the US) and it took eight weeks to arrive. Frustrating, to say the least.

Edited by DustyR
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From a some what outside point of view as I don't own any example of the offending brands the discrepancy is one thing that has lead me away from exploring Japanese pens. The differences in price for me would mean I would have to make doubly/triply sure that a pen in question is the right pen as resale value would be so drastically affected by my geographical location or troubles I go to trying track down the very lowest price I can find it for often in markets I'm really not familiar with. I can't make sure that the pens in question are the "right ones" to the extent to justify the risk involved hence part of the reason I have avoided them entirely.

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I have to agree with Brian: US retailers aren't making a lot of money on these pens, and it's not their fault that there is an official reseller.

I actually don't see any discrepancy in anyone's position here. US retailers hope that US consumers will overlook their higher prices of these products, for whatever reason. Consumers are free to do as they choose, for whatever reason.

 

Same with MassDrop.

 

Same with group buys.

 

Same with purchases from individual private sellers.

 

Same with the several US retailers who sell the same products.

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Now is talk like that really necessary? If I could reduce the price further, of course I would. Of course pricing is cheaper getting straight from Japan, why wouldn't it be? There's no shipping to the US, there's no overhead costs. It's not like any of us at this end of the distribution channel are getting rich selling these pens. I'm not buying them for $35 each. And to call Luxury Brands pricing policy predatory just seems ridiculous. This is a common problem with ALL Japanese products. some people are more comfortable buying from a US retailer. And I never said a Japanese or non-US company wouldn't stand by the warranty. If you buy from a non-US dealer, then you just have to go straight back to them, which may not be as convenient as sending it somewhere in the US, that's all.

 

Brian, I'm clearly not blaming the U.S. retailers (i.e., you) for the huge price increase in the U.S. I'm saying I think the mark-up is likely due to the exclusive U.S. Distributor, Luxury Brands.

 

You said: "Of course pricing is cheaper getting straight from Japan, why wouldn't it be?"

 

Here's why: I have to do the same things you have to do (except pay an exclusive U.S. distributor mark-up) in order to buy the pen from Japan! For example, I have to: 1) Purchase the pen from a retailer in Japan (actually Brian, you should be buying for less factory-direct, which I would never be able to do). 2) Ship the pen from Japan (we both have to do this), and 3) Import the pen (pay taxes, duty, etc. Again, we both have to do this, but you get an advantage because you're importing more than one at a time).

 

So If we take out the Japanese retailer's profit from the equation (which I alone have to pay) and shift it to you Brian, then everything is evens-out for the most part.

 

So in all likelihood Brian, the primary difference between my buying Japan-direct and you selling to me is that you probably being forced to pay an exclusive U.S. distributor (Luxury Brands) a very large mark-up. And of-course, you pass that mark-up on to the end-buyer, which doubles the price of the pen if purchased in the U.S. The Japanese retailer doesn't have this problem, hence the pen costs me half as much if purchased from Japan direct.

 

Please do not figure-in the U.S. domestic shipping. A U.S. purchaser has to pay this no matter what. If I as a U.S. purchaser import direct from Japan, I would have to pay all the shipping end-to-end. If I buy from a U.S. retailer, I still have to pay all the shipping end-to-end. Remember, a retailer can claim "free shipping", but we all know that there's nothing free in life. The buyer pays for all the shipping, one way or another.

 

Brian, you said: "And to call Luxury Brands pricing policy predatory just seems ridiculous."

 

I disagree. I am able to compare the U.S. prices of products from multiple U.S. resellers. I know what the retail price of the products are in their respective home countries. Therefore I can get a reasonable differential estimate of retailer mark-ups in the U.S. - and I find them quite reasonable for the most part.

 

Then there are the outliers, the likes of the Platinum and Pilot pens sold in the U.S. The U.S. retailers are (once again) taking very reasonable mark-ups in my opinion, and the mark-ups are quite similar between retailers (they should be, the retailers compete). However the total resale price in the U.S. is outrageously high. This is very likely due to an unbridled exclusive distributor feeding off the pipeline. Note the word exclusive. This is the problem. If Platinum had a second or third distributor in the U.S., they would have to compete. That's not the case today.

 

You said: "Some people are more comfortable buying from a US retailer."

 

I agree. And that's fine. People can buy from wherever they want, and pay whatever they think is a fair price. It's a free market.

 

However, the problem with Platinum is, all U.S. buyers have to pay a large exclusive U.S. distributor's mark-up. Either that, or buy Japan-direct. In the end, you Brian as the retailer gets hurt by this. So I suggest you do what you can to eliminate the predatory feeder in the pipeline, and even-out the playing field.

 

Trying to justify such a large U.S. distributor mark-up with warranty support does not work. In my experience buying Japan-direct, there's no problem getting good warranty service from a Japanese retailer. It might be a little more convenient dealing with a U.S. reseller in terms of the rare case of a warranty claim, but not enough to justify doubling the price of the pen. Remember we're talking about a small, easily-shippable commodity product like a fountain pen here - not a luxury automobile.

 

Finally, allow me to suggest some ways to remedy this problem:

 

Platinum, if they insist on layering a Distributor channel, should name more than one distributor and encourage competition.

 

Ideally, I feel there is no need for a distributor layer at all. The number of U.S. retailers for the high-end pen line is relatively small, and the retailers are highly skilled. I see no reason why Platinum can't deal retailer-direct from the factory (no distributor needed). I have dealt with Platinum directly on a few of occasions. They were prompt, efficient and courteous when responding, and English was not an issue.

 

Platinum and/or Luxury Brands should not set the final retailer price in the U.S., the market should set the price based on competition. That does not seem to be the case today. All U.S. retailers seem to pretty-much be in lock-step price-wise. This strongly suggests there exists some level of collective control.

 

The wholesale price should be factory direct to reseller, no distributor in the middle. The price should be fair across retailers and based on volume commitment. Volume commitments (if any) should be backed by a payment guarantee to make the commitment justifiably bookable and discountable (in an accounting sense).

 

Everything I'm saying here also applies to Pilot Pens and their high-end writing instrument line sold in the U.S. Pilot seems to have the same problem Platinum has: A single exclusive U.S. distributor that in the context of this product line and in today's global marketplace - is not adding enough value to justify doubling the price of the pens sold in the U.S.

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Pilot cares what happens at the retail level because retailers need to make money by selling their product. In a given market, the retailer is governed by minimum prices, below which they cannot go. However, if the minimum in one market is much, much lower than the minimum in another market, then some retailers cannot win. The consumer can easily see this arbitrage opportunity. Pilot and other companies need to minimize arbitrage opportunities across markets, if they want to keep retail outlets around. Pilot price strategy, distributors, retailer selection, the way the product distribution model works in various markets and types of channels -- these are the responsibility of Pilot.

 

But using the same logic, why should Pilot alter from selling its product at its minimum price in Japan? Wouldn't that start affecting Pilot's sales there. The problem more than likely exists at Pilot USA (a separate legal entity doing its own thing but which has a contract with Pilot in Japan for exclusive Distributor rights in the US). Honestly, arbitrage is the best way to get Pilot USA to bring down its middle-man charges. If people aren't buying Pilot pens through US based retailers because the markup is too high, then retailers will stop carrying them (other things to carry that customers might be buying more of, no rational retailer is going to so hitch their business to one specific model of what they sell that less demand will kill them). Retailers not buying from Pilot USA means that they get less money, so they need to offer a reduced markup so that the retailers can lower the retail price to the point where the shipping time that can be offered by a US retailer versus an overseas one (plus a lack of customs delays) is worth the difference in price to a consumer.

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Alex, agreed, it would definitely make an impact on sales on Japan, and I'm certain that's why Pilot wouldn't want to do it. I don't know the history of sales channels, distributors, etc., but I suspect that the existing distribution system predates the ease by which consumers can now buy from wherever in the world they want. I also suspect that US-based retailers cannot, on their own, lower their prices to a point where they're equal across geographies. I doubt if there's that much margin available to them, and if they could, they would have done that already. Over the long haul, though, I believe prices will move closer together -- inching up in Japan, and inching down in Western markets.

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FILCAO Roxi | FILCAO Atlantica | Italix Churchman's Prescriptor

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Of course, in the US, we have a certain presidential candidate saying the the way to fix economic problems is by raising the tariffs (well, one specifically mentioning tariffs and another putting down the trade deals that got rid of certain tariffs), so we'll see how the US market looks next year.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It isn't just an exercise in foreign exchange. Beyond the exchange fluctuations across markets, there are substantial differences in prices across markets. If Pilot wants to level the playing field for its smaller online retailers, it needs to recognize that low prices in Japan for the same pen model sold in Europe or the USA are tough on smaller online retailers. Right now, consumers are just taking advantage of arbitrage opportunity across markets, because they can. It isn't really their fault, and it isn't the fault of Goulet either. The only player that can really even this out, if it wants to try, is a global player like Pilot. A Pilot Europe rep engaged in a very fair and transparent discussion over the issue in January. URL below. The reasons for price disparity across markets are many and varied, but ultimately the cross-geo levers on pricing come down to the company distributing the product.

 

http://penpaperpencil.net/pilots-reply-regarding-pricing-in-the-uk/

But why would they need/want to level the playing field for its smaller online retailers? What are these retailers providing them? Not sure I understand.

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Rderieux,

The retailers are selling the manufacturer's product and providing the pen company with revenue. If the retailers can sell other products more easily and profitably, without having to fight uphill against pricing set for other markets, then over the long run, that's where they will move their resources.

Reviews and articles on Fountain Pen Network

 

CHINA, JAPAN, AND INDIA

Hua Hong Blue Belter | Penbbs 456 | Stationery | ASA Nauka in Dartmoor and Ebonite | ASA Azaadi | ASA Bheeshma | ASA Halwa | Ranga Model 8 and 8b | Ranga Emperor

ITALY AND THE UK

FILCAO Roxi | FILCAO Atlantica | Italix Churchman's Prescriptor

USA, INK, AND EXPERIMENTS

Bexley Prometheus | Route 54 Motor Oil | Black Swan in Icelandic Minty Bathwater | Robert Oster Aqua | Diamine Emerald Green | Mr. Pen Radiant Blue | Three Oysters Giwa | Flex Nib Modifications | Rollstoppers

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New purchase from Japan - arrived in my hands today, 19 May 2016...

Qty.-1, Platinum #3776 Century Bourgogne Wine Red, Medium (M) nib, Cartridge and Converter included, Model PNB-10000#71-M.

Includes a fully-backed Manufacturer's Warranty.

Price: USD $74.70
Shipping: USD $8.00
Total: USD $82.70

Delivery was via online tracked EMS Express Air.

Shipping took three (3) days total door-to-door from Japan to Indonesia.

EMS Express shipping from Japan to the U.S. would have cost $10 USD instead of $8 USD.

The same pen in the U.S. at the new "Lower Price" would cost me $150 USD plus shipping.

Even if I lived in the U.S. I would still buy from the Japanese retailer. I would have to be an idiot to buy from a U.S. retailer and pay double for the exact same thing.

 

By the way, this little #3776 pen is worth $75 USD in my opinion. It is not worth $150 regardless of where you buy it. So if Platinum decided to solve this problem by jacking up the price globally to $150, I would never have bought this pen in the first place. (Actually, at $75 I have bought multiple #3776 pens.)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think with the American market and fountain pens we run into the issue that Pilot themselves doesn't want to do distribution over here so you get Pilot USA with sole distributor rights. Products like the Precise, the G2, and others see decently wide use within the mass market, and therefore can be imported in vast enough numbers that their price on the American market isn't bad.

 

Fountain pens on the other hand, aren't widely used in the States anymore. You can't use the same method of importing them as fast as they can be made. So there are some price increases there. Plus you don't have the distributor quite adjusted to the fact that people can just get things shipped from Japan (because the price there is so low that a single pen won't really get excise, where a box of 50 to the distributor will). A lot of industries still haven't caught up to the disruptive power that is the internet.

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New purchase from Japan - arrived in my hands today, 19 May 2016...

 

Qty.-1, Platinum #3776 Century Bourgogne Wine Red, Medium (M) nib, Cartridge and Converter included, Model PNB-10000#71-M.

 

Includes a fully-backed Manufacturer's Warranty.

 

Price: USD $74.70

Shipping: USD $8.00

Total: USD $82.70

 

Delivery was via online tracked EMS Express Air.

 

Shipping took three (3) days total door-to-door from Japan to Indonesia.

 

EMS Express shipping from Japan to the U.S. would have cost $10 USD instead of $8 USD.

 

The same pen in the U.S. at the new "Lower Price" would cost me $150 USD plus shipping.

 

Even if I lived in the U.S. I would still buy from the Japanese retailer. I would have to be an idiot to buy from a U.S. retailer and pay double for the exact same thing.

 

By the way, this little #3776 pen is worth $75 USD in my opinion. It is not worth $150 regardless of where you buy it. So if Platinum decided to solve this problem by jacking up the price globally to $150, I would never have bought this pen in the first place. (Actually, at $75 I have bought multiple #3776 pens.)

 

In the UK that model is £110 from an online retailer. If we ordered from Japan for $82.70 we would have to pay import duty (4%), VAT (20%) and handling charges (£10+) so say £79 which is much cheaper.

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Brick and mortar is all but gone, leaving me with only one option to buy new pens since they now come via my mailbox. I don't really care who sells the pen, so long as they are able to deliver what I desire at a fair price. It's not like I can visit a local store and try out pens or benefit from their expertise when choosing a pen anymore. The Goulets seem like nice enough people and I have done business with them, experiencing their terrific service. The reality is they are competing globally, which involves currency fluctuations among other things. I don't pretend to know their business and can't tell them how to run it, but I will no more buy from them for the sake of generosity than I would anyone else. At the end of the day, like any smart business owner, my goal is to keep expenses low and run my household at a profit. If that means I save a substantial amount buying overseas I will sleep just fine. Maybe online businesses like Goulet and others need to find new and creative ways to differentiate if they are struggling under their current business models. Why should I pay more for the same product? Why should Pilot or other manufacturers sell for less simply because a retailer sits in a country with a devalued currency relative to another? If you want to see US businesses thrive, complaining about Pilot is not the answer. This dynamic is common throughout the US. On the other hand, Franklin-Christoph just got $200 from me because I had no choice but to happily buy from them directly. They also make other products I can't buy elsewhere. Why isn't anyone complaining about them, I wonder...

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